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Hmmm... Ad does look a little shady.
- That engine usually has 180-ish horses, not 200.
- Some folks buy these expecting something different and sell with low miles, but 500 is exceptionally low.
- The name of the website (ClassicCarsBuy) sounds like a poor translation to English from something else. When you go to their site they seem to have a handful of ads from around the country, so I have to assume that they're just listing ads from other folks.
- The price is low for one spec'ed out like that.
- Oh @chines1, what about the chassis number plate?
You are right to be wary.
wow... Thanks, JR
I can't make out the chassis number on the plate and the Arizona sticker is assigned by the state after a car leaves here, so we have no way to reference that number. Build date looks like 2010. My guess is that it was an older aircooled build, or a kit/roller. That is NOT a factory Subaru set up. Engine appears to be a JDM, probably from outfront with an EMS Stinger stand-alone ECU. Roll bars are not factory installed and appear to be welded to some flat plate (maybe I am seeing that wrong... IDK)? Wiring is a mess, fuel line routing is a mess, there doesn't appear to be any shrouding on the radiator, looks like a single fuel pump system with no surge tank/swirl pot, ECU is mounted in the engine bay to name a few.
As for HP numbers... Everyone wants to advertise "XXXhp" with their Subaru, and while I'm sure there are tricks that can squeeze out a few more HP, most of what you read are simply BS numbers... I have dyno tested a few competitors "200hp and 210hp" cars and they all made in the neighborhood of 150 to the wheels, exactly the same as our stock ECU 2.5L package at 175hp crank (147whp)... Now, I'm not saying that all advertised 200+hp builds are BS, its just not what I am after and its not what we have seen from elsewhere. We do our set-ups the way we do for ease of use, ease of maintenance and drivability first. 175hp in a spyder is more than most can handle. Hell, I've even had my own clients tell me "this has to be more hp than you told me because it is so damn quick". Sure, believe what you want... just enjoy it. :-)
Carey, Thank you for the reply and sharing your knowledge
@chines1 posted:As for HP numbers... Everyone wants to advertise "XXXhp" with their Subaru, and while I'm sure there are tricks that can squeeze out a few more HP, most of what you read are simply BS numbers... I have dyno tested a few competitors "200hp and 210hp" cars and they all made in the neighborhood of 150 to the wheels, exactly the same as our stock ECU 2.5L package at 175hp crank (147whp)..
As you know Carey, the Orange County Correction Factor can be readily calculated. It is actual observed crank horsepower x 1.2- 1.5 (depending on the builder).
There are no shortage of people getting 110 OCCF horsepower out of 1776s with 110 cams and stock heads. On the forums, the OCCF numbers are sited nearly as often as the inerrancy of the Sainted (and infallible) German Engineer.
To the OP:
First of all, I love your handle @americanworkmule-- I feel like we could be friends. I've often said that I married a Ferrari: beautiful and able to run at an incredible level of performance... as long as she's supplied with special fuel, special oil, and special parts, all of which are not inexpensive. OTOH, I see myself as more of a dump-truck: I'm not much to look at, but get a lot done running on whatever garbage I can find at my local truck-stop. My cost of operation is generally low until I need a rebuild.
Anyhow, my advice has always been to buy a used car and decide for yourself if this hobby is for you before investing in a new one. It used to be a good plan, when lightly used cars were 75% of the cost of new.
However, we've reached an inversion point where BaT (etc.) have driven the price of nice used cars near (or past) the cost of new ones. If I were a new buyer today, I'd get to a respected builder, or to one of the big get-togethers (if we ever have them again) and sit in, ride along, or ideally drive a Spyder or Speedster to see if it's for you. It isn't for everybody. It shouldn't be for me as a dump-truck-- I should be in a 1750 hp Mustang or something similar, but here I am and here I've been for 20+ years now. You have no idea if this thing will grate on you or scratch itches you didn't know you had until you sit in or drive one.
Good luck-- forewarned is forearmed.
A quick check of the Beverly Hills Motorcars website shows this listed with a “Call For Price” price tag. That means the car has already been sold and they want you to call them so they can sell you something else.
Stan, yours is a lovely picture of a marriage!
"I've often said that I married a Ferrari: beautiful, and able to run at an incredible level of performance... as long as she's supplied with special fuel, special oil, and special parts, all of which are not inexpensive.
On the other hand, I see myself as more of a dump-truck: I'm not much to look at, but get a lot done running on whatever garbage I can find at my local truck-stop. My cost of operation is generally low until I need a rebuild."
Hilarious!
In my experience, those necessary "dump truck rebuilds" can be pretty expensive, too (he types while looking at the scars on his hands).
But the Ferrari vs Dump Truck is pretty appropó for a lot of us.
@Stan Galat posted:....Anyhow, my advice has always been to buy a used car and decide for yourself if this hobby is for you before investing in a new one. It used to be a good plan, when lightly used cars were 75% of the cost of new.
However, we've reached an inversion point where BaT (etc.) have driven the price of nice used cars near (or past) the cost of new ones. If I were a new buyer today, I'd get to a respected builder, or to one of the big get-togethers (if we ever have them again) and sit in, ride along, or ideally drive a Spyder or Speedster to see if it's for you. It isn't for everybody. It shouldn't be for me as a dump-truck-- I should be in a 1750 hp Mustang or something similar, but here I am and here I've been for 20+ years now. You have no idea if this thing will grate on you or scratch itches you didn't know you had until you sit in or drive one.
Good luck-- forewarned is forearmed.
Thanks @Stan Galat, I'm starting to realize, especially with this niche, I'll be better off following your advice.
I've done some quick searches but haven't found anyone accessible in Middle Tennessee like the owners in California
Speedsters are often purchased based on a dream. The dream doesn't often fit the compromises of reality.
This trait is only magnified in a Spyder. Spyders are smaller, lighter, more cramped and generally RAW when compared to a Speedster. They are totally impractical. This is why I love them so much. Not many people "get" them.
The most beautiful topless car, but rare. That's a good thing. I've always leaned toward the unconventional, and shun all the popular fads. I'm weird I guess.
I called these guys when I was looking for a speedster. I called on one of their adds and they said it was sold, but they could build one. You will find this company posting lots of classified adds everywhere.
@DannyP posted:Speedsters are often purchased based on a dream. The dream doesn't often fit the compromises of reality.
This trait is only magnified in a Spyder. Spyders are smaller, lighter, more cramped and generally RAW when compared to a Speedster. They are totally impractical. This is why I love them so much. Not many people "get" them.
The most beautiful topless car, but rare. That's a good thing. I've always leaned toward the unconventional, and shun all the popular fads. I'm weird I guess.
Like Carey mentioned in a Podcast, if you're wanting a Spyder don't show up with your Significant Other or you'll leave in a Speedster.
@americanworkmule posted:Like Carey mentioned in a Podcast, if you're wanting a Spyder don't show up with your Significant Other or you'll leave in a Speedster.
True, that.
"I've done some quick searches but haven't found anyone accessible in Middle Tennessee like the owners in California"
You're in Tennessee?
Avoid this builder: https://specialtyauto.com/
You can search this site for warnings about SAS.
@Bob: IM S6 posted:"I've done some quick searches but haven't found anyone accessible in Middle Tennessee like the owners in California"
You're in Tennessee?
Avoid this builder: https://specialtyauto.com/
You can search this site for warnings about SAS.
Ha Ha !
although the whole webpage looks like poop, I like where it states,
" XK-120/140 Jaguars and smiling customers"
Those look like pictures of Grimaces to me, taken with a potato!
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Northern Indiana is lovely in May or June. Tak a couple of days, drive up and get the grand tour. You'll leave with your name on the Special Edition wait list.
Cool Username, BTW, but do you have a first name that I've missed?
This has already been alluded to, but let's take a direct approach:
Both Speedsters and Spyders are absolutely beautiful cars just sitting there. Mostly they appeal to men, but trust me, women love to look at them, too. But convertibles have become more and more scarce over the years and a lot of ladies (and men, too) haven't had the pleasure of, or can't remember, top-down driving. What everyone quickly discovers with these cars, usually in the first drive or two and especially the Spyders is the following, in no particular order:
- They are noisy
- They are smelly (usually raw gas and exhaust gas, mixed)
- You hair blows around all over the place, then
- Your hat blows off
- They have no sun shades
- They vibrate a lot (they're usually a stiff ride)
- The exhaust note is very loud (different from #1 - That's wind noise)
- You're going too fast at any speed (which might be a visual effect from sitting really close to the ground, but you're usually going too fast, too)
- When you pass a Semi-Trailer, your side gaze looks right at the hub of the wheel
- Everyone in an SUV is 3 feet higher than you are.
- There's no place inside to put much of anything
- Did I mention that they're really windy?
Traveling in one of these in even slight rain is another adventure entirely - They leak. So people don't see this stuff - All they see is themselves, traveling down a beautiful country road in a beautiful sports car with big smiles on their faces and butterflies in the fields.
Then, they buy their dream car, get it home and registered and take it out the first time and ALL of #1 - #12 leap out to haunt them. Often times, one or the other rider hates it but smiles through because the other, other seems to like it ("Isn't this GREAT?"). The next time a ride is offered the passenger demures and the driver finds himself (it always seems to be a he, at this point) riding alone. But it's not quite as much fun alone, is it? So it gets used very little, quickly is seen as impractical, it sits around for a year and then is sold with 500 miles on it, probably at a slight loss to the seller. Us "old timers" on here see this play out over and over, again, often a few times each year. Usually there is nothing wrong with the car, other than a mismatch of expectations versus reality.
Having said all that, I would STILL be very wary of that seller's website (and seller, too).
Hope this helps.
Gordon - The Speedstah Guy from Massachusetts
I had quite a chuckle reading your post Stan and happy that Carey shone some truth in the Normally Aspirated N/A subie engine getting no more than 200hp.
Something that I did a lot of research at one time but every west coast add seemed to say the hp was well north of 220hp something that did not hold up to any of my reading nor my inquiries with well known subaru high performance engine builders.
THe market has made quite a shift to the ridiculous with BAT and other forces and with the recession hitting, money seems to not be able to buy what it used to.
Your advice to buy used was the best advice in the past but cars that need a complete renewal are commanding ridiculous money and we still have very little ability as a newbie to try out a car to fully understand what these cars are like and that is a still a big issue.
Carlisle was a great place to see all sorts of different builds.
We used to have TSA screening only at airports, soon without a pre and post health care check up at the border crossing we might not be able to drive anywhere.
God forbid, still hoping we get let out of prison soon.
13. If it's powered by an air cooled engine, expect to do some maintenance on it on a regular basis. Carb adjustments, valve adjustments every 3000 miles, etc. One good thing about a Spyder is the engine has good access to get to most anything, a Speedster, not so much. Suby powered cars are no more maintenance than your DD.
14. If your a tallish person, you'll be looking over the windshield in a Spyder.
15. No or poor heat, usually, unless your Danny or Gordon.
Yeah, Carlos.
Gas Heaters are ROCK STARS!
In a Subaru powered car, real world hot coolant heat through a heater core is pretty simple and very effective. Couple that with some seat heaters and you can get 3 seasons out of it with some semblance of comfort.
Heat seems so simple today, but was such a factor in a 1969 Beetle days.
I agree with you Carey, and add to that Subie a Vintage Air AC unit and you have all the bases covered. That is of course pre supposing that you want some sort of comfort/heat/Ac and use of the car for 3 seasons. If you want to rough it well...choices 
@DannyP posted:Speedsters are often purchased based on a dream. The dream doesn't often fit the compromises of reality.
This trait is only magnified in a Spyder. Spyders are smaller, lighter, more cramped and generally RAW when compared to a Speedster. They are totally impractical. This is why I love them so much. Not many people "get" them.
The most beautiful topless car, but rare. That's a good thing. I've always leaned toward the unconventional, and shun all the popular fads. I'm weird I guess.
To piggy-back on @DannyP post....I get in to my Speedster from my DD (E350 Merc) and it feels very basic and raw. I get in to a Spyder from my Speedster, and suddenly my Speedster feels like a luxury car.
It looks like Mr. L has another website running- http://www.speedster356a.com/
And @Gordon Nichols- Love the Minions/Van Halen clip!
@americanworkmule posted:Like Carey mentioned in a Podcast, if you're wanting a Spyder don't show up with your Significant Other or you'll leave in a Speedster.
Anyone know what podcast this was? Or where I can find/listen to it?
Like Carey mentioned in a Podcast, if you're wanting a Spyder don't show up with your Significant Other or you'll leave in a Speedster.
Thanks!
@Gordon Nichols
Regarding your 1-12: LOL, can't you apply the same list to the millions who buy motorcycles? And the downside is? 
More likely, 1-12 are key selling features for motorcycles, and spyders. You know; the nostalgia thing about sun-in-your-face, wind-in-your-hair, man-and-machine, you-and-the-road, all that FUN stuff.
True, that, Mark, but it seems like a slightly weird situation that people buy convertible 356 cars and think they’ll be just like their daily driver, only better looking. Seldom, does that ever happen (if it does, then their daily driver must be pretty sad, indeed).
Hence, items 1 - 12 (or 14 or 15 if you include Carlos’ points). Let’s face it; If you drive a 356 of any stripe, original or replica, you’re either a “car aficionado” who appreciates the vagaries of 1950’s technical excellence (?) or....... You’re just a weirdo. Your choice.
Oh.... And I had to give up my motorcycles when I was about 20, for my Mom. I gave her too much to worry about whenever I went racing so I found bicycles, instead. My wife never knew me as a 6-day Trials racer and I’m OK with that.
You can go try a motorcycle, you can rent one at some places and have it for a day or even more to try it out. But, it is harder to do with a Speedster replica it seems the cars are pretty much unobtanium at the dealers shop.
it's not impossible to go for a test ride, it's just not available to rent for a day or a week for you to try out, so Carlisle or the West Coast meet ups I think were a logical choice to see product as most guys love to give info on their cars and most times you can take a right seat cruise and possibly a test drive if the owner is willing.
In any case to experience 50-60 driving is what your trying to do to see if your going to like it.
Restomods are now being created with more creature comfort but you still have some50-60 year old stuff in there and if you have never owned Acooled stuff well, you have a certain curve in learning if your no mechanically minded.
Gee I just realized that I have been driving a replica IM since 2009, Acooled then Subie, wow, time flies and I am not bored with it honestly, when I go to see new cars, nothing is really exciting to me. Sure they go 0-100 in a few clicks, handle great, leather, all the toys but not really exciting at all. My IM is pretty stellar and the shape was and continues to be so unique. I loved my original 59 356A coupe that I owned when I was a kid and the car stuck with me.
I can't believe P does not return to making them but I think they aren't for fear they would disappoint people and the heritage owners of the brand who are now getting a small fortune for their cars.
@Gordon Nichols posted:Let’s face it; If you drive a 356 of any stripe, original or replica, you’re either a “car aficionado” who appreciates the vagaries of 1950’s technical excellence (?) or....... You’re just a weirdo. Your choice.
If talking about me, I suspect most believe "wierdo" is about the right call. Rationality was never in the equation; so, I guess: Wierdo.
(And I think I've found a few companions here.)
Kevin wrote: "I get in to my Speedster from my DD (E350 Merc) and it feels very basic and raw. I get in to a Spyder from my Speedster, and suddenly my Speedster feels like a luxury car."
One year at Carlisle, one of our Spyder members was a bit late leaving the hotel for the show field, as he was helping someone get his carbs sync'd (that should be a hint) and his girl friend at the time was looking kind of bored so I offered her a ride to the show. She hops into Pearl and one of the first things she said was,
"Wow...... This is really nice!"
I think it had to be the carpeting that impressed her.
Yeah, That was it..... That, and doors that came up higher than your elbow, for sure.
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@Gordon Nichols posted:"Wow...... This is really nice!"
I think it had to be the carpeting that impressed her.
Yeah, That was it..... That, and doors that came up higher than your elbow, for sure.
Are you sure it wasn't the "Fine Corinthian Leather"?
.
She must have taken one look at the interior and thought, "Aren't these the same seats that Jon Voight has?"
.
@Gordon Nichols posted:....Let’s face it; If you drive a 356 of any stripe, original or replica, you’re either a “car aficionado” who appreciates the vagaries of 1950’s technical excellence (?) or....... You’re just a weirdo. Your choice.
Your wife's friends think you're a weirdo for driving that old hooptie car...
Your wife's friends think your eccentric for driving that old Porsche