thrown around

i notice alot of guys talking about suspension mods on this site. my car is a bone stock v.s. without the i.r.s or sway bars. the thing is fairly good on smooth roads, but really gets tossed around in the bumps. i assume that because i am driving a chassis that was designed during wwII that it's not going to get much better than that...am i wrong? if so, how much better can it get? as good as say, a 914? any input would be appreciated.

George,

When I test drove my car earlier this year, I also had to be reminded what year this car was built on. 2003 VS built on a 67 pan.

With the help and advice from Gordon N and this forum, I knew that I had to do some minimal mod to the suspension to feel comfortable about the ride. Honestly, I almost didn't buy the car because of the "ride". Again, Gordon's sage advice helped me make my decision. I even considered taking the 1200 mile drive home as an original option, but quickly came to my senses!

A front sway bar and a rear camber compensator was like night and day. I'm sure that there are other things that you can do as well, but this was all I needed.

I'm sure a little investment for parts and a few hours will change your ride - M

George,

>Heavy duty "sway-a-way" sway bars front and rear
>Urethane bushings and stainless clamps
>KYB/GR2 or Koni shocks all the way around

George:

What TC typed, except for the following:

You've got swing arm suspension in the rear (non-IRS) so a rear sway bar won't work. What you need back there is a "Camber Compensator" which acts differently than a sway bar (for your suspension) while still atempting to give a flatter car (less body roll) in the corners.

I'm undecided on the lowered spindles....I don't have them and, even though it's lowered a little (not in the weeds by any extreme), it still handles like all the other "real" 356's i've driven. If you want a weed beater, then go lowered spindles. If not, then I assume you already have a lowering kit on your front torsion tubes, so just drop it down to where it looks good, and make the rear match it for height.

Now, the important part: VW front ends are susceptible to the dreaded "BUMP STEER". It sounds like that's what you've got, since you state that it moves all around over bumps. Once you get it lowered to where you want it, take it to a competent front end alignment place and tell them to align it as a 1966 VW Sedan if it has king pins in the front, or as a 1969 VW Sedan if it has ball joints. Tell the tech it has had bump steer and please correct it - he'll know what to do. also, get a dual set (four pieces) of caster shims for the front - the alignment tech will need them when he does his thing.

I also tried a brake bias valve for a while and didn't notice any difference.

gn

George,

What Gordon typed, except for the following:

Forget about those foolish adjusters. If you go beyong a point in lowering the car you'll bind the shocks and have to buy new "short shocks", if you extend it to high, you hyper extend the shocks and have to buy "tall shocks", if you don't have a clue, you're bound to make a mistake.

Put the beam at stock height and pick up a set of fordged drop spindles. If the car becomes a weed beater, THEN use the adjusters.

Remember to order up longer bolts when you get the caster shims, just to be on the safe side.


Gordon's not ALWAYS right . . . I am.

TC

Whew! Another exercise in humility.

I knew that....

I knew you knew that.

I knew you knew he knew.

you guys are real beaut's. here's a question, what would all of this stuff cost? off hand, i did end up lowering my front end, it's now a bit crooked (higher on the passenger side). it handles alot better, but it (the front) will bottom out over medium bumps with two people in the car plus luggage.

What's bottoming out on bumps? Might be as TC mentioned, that your shocks now need to be those little short jobs. If so, I have a pair of short KYB's (new) I'll sell you. If it's something else, you'll have to identify it.

OK, for costs, using TC's list:

>Heavy duty "sway-a-way" sway bars front and rear - $50
each end (remember - you'll need a "camber compensator" on the rear, NOT a sway bar)

>Urethane bushings and stainless clamps (they come with the sway bar kits) If TC's talking about urethane bushings for the front torsion bar/trailing arms, then another $50

>KYB/GR2 or Koni shocks all the way around

George,

Check here for the prices and availability:

www.aircooled.net/

He's got the best I've found, other than:

www.thesamba.com/

Between the two, you can hook up with everything you need. For the sake of the ball joints, and other moving front end components , you really shouldn't be running your car with unequal height side-to-side. Re-adjusting the bean correctly along with stiffer/better shocks will help eliminate the bottoming out.

>See Gordon, THAT'S the problem with those silly adjusters in the hands of an amateur. : ) <

Luck,

TC

Gordon,

The limiting bar is just a piece of square tubing, padded where it passes beneath the engine, and attached to the "frame" at either side with "J" hooks. You kind of pre-load the bar when tightening the ny-locks and you're good to go. It's about the only thing that eliminates wheel hop on hard acceleration out of turns. Great for autocross. Except, with the fiberglass body work at the rear being only "cosmetic" it really doesn't have much to attach to. Have to remove that one from the list. Too bad, because it really adds a lot to the handling package,

Sorry,

TC

tc

wouldn't i need more than 55hp for wheel hop to be anywhere near a problem? ;). also, considering that i live in the big hell-hole (city), what do you figure the labor rate would be on all these mods?

Oh, gosh George,

I couldn't even guess at the cost to install those items. I would think that a good front end/alignment shop could do the work but then you're paying for a certain expertise and specialized machines as well.

Tough to call . . .

tc, when you say preload, do you mean that the bar is jammed in to add presure to the frame horns? If so, how much pressure is added?

Yeah,

The bar sits nicely beneath the engine close to the oil pump in the strongest area just to the front or that area. The bar usually has a hard rubber padding on it, a piece of bicycle tire adheared to it with contact cement works great, the "J" bolts are hooked into the body-bumper support bulkheads (on a Beetle, Porsche, or Ghia) and the lower threads are fitted with a rubber washer, a large stainless washer and a nyloc nut. You tighten the nuts until the rubber (tire) pad on the bar begins to compress just a bit against the engine bottom, and that's it. Pre-loaded.

On a replica Speedster you would have to fabricate a rear "frame" to attach the bar. On any other metal 356/Beetle/Ghia/etc. it's a simple drill and bolt-on. Not for the avarage guy or the average situational driver, but KILLER for hard acceleration on any track

George, Gordon,
While you're shopping at aircooled.net, buy some new little ""camber cogs" beneath the ball joints."
They're called camber adjusters , I think. Anyway, get the ones that have the baljoint hole drille off center (more off center than stock).
The stock adjusters will only let you get to about 1 degree positive camber which is OK.
The offset camber adjusters make this an easier task and you can even run 0 or a little negative camber. It also makes it easier to get both sides adjusted to the same camber setting. This can improve the tracking and handeling.

Greg B.

Greg,

Great tip! I'm get a set with my next order. Thanks.

TC

can anyone recommend a good mechanic in the greater boston area for suspension mods?

George, you can install those parts by yourself or with the help of a buddy. We've done it and it doesn't take that long....

Ricardo,

I know what you mean. Unfortunately, I don't have a proper setup or the needed time to do the work. AND unlike San Juan, it's still snowing up here. There is nothing worse than bloody frozen knuckles. I was just hoping that I can get this done now so that when the snow finally melts, I'll be ready to go!!

George

George:

There's a guy out in Westborough at "Side Alley Racing" or something like that, but I'm on a different PC right now and don't have his number - I'll get back on tonight and see what I can find for a number.

Gordon

thanks gordon

Two things cured the bumpy front end on my ride: sway bars and (in my car) tweaked the adjustable torsion bars. No big deal... my 2 cents

It's probably this place, if it's the place I think Bruce thinks TC thinks you're thinking about.

Side Alley Restorations
35 South St
Westborough, MA 01581-1618

(508) 366-1169

Yup, that's the guy.....looks like a hole-in-the-wall, but several of the 550 Spyder racers around central Massachusetts use him for suspension tweeks and mods....I've heard he's pretty good.

Or, if you've good a good credit card, you can check out the advertisers on the Porsche Club Northeast website.

Gordon

bad news, boys. i just spoke to him. he told me he doesn't do that type of work any more. any more suggestions???

I'll be talking with Bruce LeDoux (who used to post regularly on the Spyder Forum) tomorrow and ask him who he might recommend. He usually recommends Dick Shine at Shine Racing in Walpole ((508) 660-7974), but I don't know if Dick does that sort of thing, either - he's usually an engine guy.

What, exactly, are you trying to get done?

Gordon

Gordon,

Trying to get some suspension mods taken care of. front anti sway, rear camber compensator, etc.

gordon,

spoke with dick shine today. he may be able to do the work in a month or so, he's pretty busy right now. if nobody else has any suggestions, i'll wait it out and hit him up in a month.

George:

Bug him, bug him, bug him.........he ALWAYS says he's busy up to his eyeballs, so getting in there is your first hurdle, and then make sure you get something from him that says when he'll be done or it'll sit in there for days - maybe weeks - for a one afternoon job of installing a sway bar and camber compensator.

I talked with Bruce LeDoux - he hadn't heard about Side Alley not doing that work any more, so he's trying to come up with another source - I'll know in a day or two.

Another source you might try is Tom at Tom Nutting Auto Body, 130 main street Acton, MA 978-263-2200. Kari Evans takes her Speedster over there from time to time, too.

Gordon