Thunder Ranch - Post Production

Not exactly sure what happened to my speedster while being built for 8 months in El Cajon. I do know what was delivered is not what was promised or presently advertised by the company. I plan on using this thread to talk about it.
I will start buy mentioning I visited the shop in November 2007 to take a look at the cars. In January I received a voicemail stating they were fitting the doors to the body and I needed to get that deposit to them so the car would be finished in time for Carlisle '08 May 16. Fast forward to delivery on September 23rd 2008... 8 months later.
this car going to Carlisle was the biggest reason for my purchase. I am very detail oriented. I was going to get the best that Thunder Ranch had to offer because this car was going to represent his company here on the east coast. I had absolutely nothing to worry about. All of the logic was right, I can honestly say I have never been more wrong.

what was missing or was poorly done? pictures?

Paul -

Sorry to hear about your disappointment with the car, even after your expending a lot of money to travel across the country to visit the shop for a pre-delivery shake-down cruise and subsequent personal assurance from builder for repairs.

Hope you are able to work out a solution with the builder. This seems out of character for that shop!

Paul - Hopefully you can correct the details that came in below your expectations without too many headaches along the way. If you can get your car dialed in properly, it'll be a real source of pleasure.

Paul,
I assume the three pics mean that your new speedster has been towed three times since you took possession of it?
That would be frustrating, indeed.
Mine was towed four times but it took a year to reach that total.
I'm sorry for your disappointment.
Hopefully all will be made right.
Is your builder paying for all necessary repairs?

I'll bite -- what problems did/do you have? Same problem over and over?

It has been towed three times. Once in California when the wheel bearing welded itself to the spindle resulting in the wheel trying to leave the wheel well. The disc brake caliper/pads where the only thing keeping it from rolling down the road on its own. Tom did drive 8 hours with a jack in his trunk to fix it. We found that the wrong wheel bearings where installed. The nut at the spindle was also overtightened on both driver and passenger sides during installation keeping the bearings from doing there job.

The second time it was towed I found myself stuck in 2nd gear. The shift rod worked its way free from the rear coupler. The mechanics found that the bolt that holds the rod was not safety wired. They had to cut a hole through the interior fiberglass in order to reconnect the shift rod, tighten the bolt, and safety wire up the assembly. Not happy about holes being cut in my new car. TR did pay for the tow, send parts, and labor was covered.

The most recent (3rd towing) happened on the way to a car show this weekend. Never did make it there. The metal hook at the end of my clutch pedal assembly broke off. It sheared off right where the loop at the end of the clutch cable is attached. Strangest thing, never heard of it happening. TR is sending a new "clutch rod". Did not offer to pay for towing.

Send him the bill. Can't hurt.

I am sorry for your disappointment. Your car looks great thought.
Give it some time before you start thinking "crazy". You will have fun,believe me.

So far, not too bad really. Honestly, you seem to mostly be having problems with aftermarket parts, even the shift coupler/safety wiring issue comes down to loose threads being cast (not cut) into the square head bolt. The safety wiring is an often forgotten safety feature, I've driven cars for years without the wire in place.

I can sympathize with your frustration, you're gonna need a crash course in VW mechanicals real soon. Expect almost all of the shinny new bits and pieces out of India and Mexico to fail over the new two years. The master cylinder will most likely be next, followed by an oil pressure sending switch failure or leak at the case fitting, so be prepared. You might even have some early trouble with the windshield wiper motor, depending . . .

It would be a very good idea to drop the car off at a good independent shop and have them grease all of the fittings, lube anything that swivels or pivots, spray white lithium on anything that moves, and check all of the nuts, bolts, fittings and electrics before you decide to trust it to a long(ish) trip. You have a LOT of parts in that car which were manufactured by people who HATE their work. A failing condenser or loose hot coil lead will leave you sitting there every time. Closed contact points are a wonderful mystery, especially in the rain, in the dark. Any electrical component ought to have "Bosch"
STAMPED on it, NOT on the sticker stuck to the side of it. These days, a "blue coil" is really just a coil that was painted blue. I've seen them for sale at VW shows. Often when you buy the coil, they keep the "Bosch" box and just put the coil in a bag. WEASELS . . . !


None of this really any fault of Thunder Ranch. It's just more cost-effective to buy and install a new repro than clan, blast, refurbish and paint an original German-made assembly or part. PLUS there's the claim of "all new parts" rather than "good used parts." The uninitiated think that new is better; with VW and Porsche, the opposite is always true.

It always takes time to fully sort out a newly constructed car; or anything, really. No matter the price or promises.

Luck!

TC

I have no dog in this hunt, so I'm calling this like I see it. I'm not trying to defend anybody, or step on anybody's toes, but a lot of this episode seems to fall firmly under the heading of my personal mantra on this site: "These cars aren't for everybody". The sooner we can all (builders and buyers) wrap our minds around that, the happier everybody will be.

Missed deadlines, broken promises, and incomplete or shoddy workmanship shouldn't be excused. However, I cannot imagine trying to own and operate one of these cars without a cursory understanding of the mechanicals, and some expectation that I might need to crawl under the car to get/keep it going. The ACVW drivetrain was designed in the 1930s. As TC pointed out, a lot of the parts every builder is forced to use (by the nature of the platform) are presently "made with pride" in some third world country by people pretending to care about the product for people pretending to pay them. Welcome to the brave new world of aftermarket junk.

I'm frankly surprised that anybody can build anything even close to a quality product given the state of most of the parts available to work with. "Poor quality" in a speedster build means something more than inherent deficiencies that result from using the VW aftermarket parts available. Using less shoddy third world parts results in a better build. This also costs money, something most buyers are loathe to spend.

Developing good parts sources from outside the bottom-of-the-barrel VW world means cars will cost more. Since most buyers shop price points, I'd say you usually get what you pay for. What is disappointing is when a guy pays for one thing, and gets another altogether.

There's no free ride. If you want an inexpensive, trouble-free roadster you can take to Jiffy-Lube for an oil change, and a dealer for a tune up, I'd recommend a nice used Miata or MR2 Spyder. If you've got a bit more loose change, Boxsters are really nice.

If you want the best possible 356 replica- you'll need to build it yourself, or mail a check to Vancouver. Either way, stuff like broken clutch linkages, etc. are pretty much part of the deal.

Or, alternatively.......

You can buy a new Vintage for $25,000 or so, and get a 12,000 mile or so warranty and we know Kirk will stand by his cars - no question there.

On the other hand, I just saw an ad on my TV this evening for a dealer in Savannah, GA. who is selling 2008 350 ZX coupes for $24,999 with a 100,000 mile warranty (and they even look kind-of like a Speedster!!)

Gee.....50 year old technology and hard-to-get parts, versus brand new technology, 300+ hp and turbo, brakes that really stop, all the creature comforts and a 5-year warranty.

Lambros,

Funny you mentioned "dont go thinkin' crazy" several nights ago I was pricing several used Lotus Exige's. I see it as a modern day equivalent to the speedster. Bare bone power packed fun. Not ready to give up on the idea of owning the speedster of my dreams yet. It will not take much to get it there, just time and money. The time I just dont have, thats why I paid for someone else's time to build the car. The money I dont have because I just paid for someone else to build the car. I a hoping TR will step up and make things right.

Paul

Paul,

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your new Speedster. I was glad to hear someone nearby was buying a Thunder Ranch but am disappointed to hear of the build issues. You're not the first one on this list to be a less than disatisfied new buyer from a reputable builder but we hope you will be the last.

I live north of Baltimore. My Speedster currently has engine problems but maybe we can get together sometime in the future for a cruise with the local contingent.

Good luck with yor SPeedster.

OK, I'm in your camp. You are a guy who would be a good potential buyer.

I'm sorry you bought a dream, instead of what you paid for.

Bruce,

I am still wanting to take a trip up to Mickey's Restaurant. His Carrera project seems to be coming along nicely and I want to eyeball his turn signal switch. When I get the car back on the road id be more than happy to swing by and pick you up. Should be a good day trip. It may end up being a top up side curtains in kinda trip. It was in the 30's this morning!!! (I just left the door wide open for Jim and the rest of the So Cal crew)

P

I agree, these cars are not for everybody. I have owned a 74 vw beetle that after three years of driving as a standard bug my father and I converted into a Baja. I have owned several cars since. After owning a newer Land Rover that I was not able to work on I was excited at the potential to get back into the air cooled scene. I have been following Chuck Beck and his cars since about 14 years old. My father has owned 4 356 coupes from a pre A to a C. My brother owns a '58 coupe. I grew up in a family of 7 getting transported around in a 1979 2 liter VW bus. My father and I pulled the fuel injection off that car and replaced it with dual Dellortos. Those 40mm Dellortos are now hanging off of my cylinder heads. Long story short... I had an idea of what I was getting into.
I also new exactly what I wanted. I just was not able to get it from other builders, or so I thought. Y'all have some very nice cars on here. I was told my car would be better though!!! When I visited the shop Tom and I discussed several of the reasons I did not by from another manufacturer. Simple details, but details that in my mind made allot of replicas feel too much like a kit at a turn key price for the cars.
Thunder Ranch advertises:
"A Thunder Ranch 356 Speedster guarantees the highest quality components and workmanship, as well as superb performance, and pure driving fun!"
They dont say new parts, they say highest quality. They claim highest quality workmansip. I just dont see it in the fit/finish of my car. How can I tell? Because most of you have a car that has a better fit/finish than mine. As far as performance, lets just say I am less than impressed with the homemade throttle linkage the mechanic at TR welded up. The local mechanics can not sync the carbs with it.

Bottom line, I did not get a well put together car. Quality control on the vehicle was non-existent, even after I flew out to give it a look over myself. Wheel bearings should not fail because they were installed improperly. I should not have dust and eyelashes in my clear coat. I should not have to re-drill holes in the body in order to adjust the trim so it is straight below the doors.
I had a high pitched hissing during acceleration, pulled the manifolds off of the heads to find gray silicone gooped between the two. Scraped it off and put in the proper gaskets... no hissing. Tom promised to lower the car an inch in the rear prior to shipping. He did not, I climbed under the car 4 different times turning the rear torsion bars to get it sitting like it should be.
I can and look forward to working on this car. I hope to one day be able to have an answer to a problem before someone else on this forum...
I was sold a dream, and delivered a work in progress.

Well, If its any help. Ive got a new best "friend" My local Porsche tuner mechanic.

hey Paul swing by and pick me up. Id like to attend also

Paul

Don't do it and don't ask me how I know.

Paul,

I stand corrected, SORRY ! ! !

You seem to have as much knowledge and background in air cooled cars as Gordon, whom I hold as the high point. Looks like have a list of legitimate issues which TR really HAS to make good on. Some DO have to do with crumby after market crap, but those wheel bearings . . . no excuse! All the more reason to double check everything else.

Best,

TC

Gerd - I did not opt for the four passenger model. Sorry.

I dont know half of what Gordon or any others on here know, But I am good at following directions and not afraid to turn a wrench.

Whats wrong with this picture?

Uh, Luke Skywalker isn't in it?
Oh, the miracle of a blank canvas ...

Hey Ballmer Paul, count Teresa and I in for any fun and exciting adventures to Wilmington. We're all-season in the Hoopty. We burn dinosaur juice as late as February, then put it up until March.
I draw the line at wet snow and wind, but a light dusting or just plain cold weather doesn't scare us!

Interesting license plate light there, Paul.

Must be plate cousins....

If you mount your shine down light upside down do you think it works like the 911 Carrera's Ducktail of the 70's? Thats what it reminded me of. A license plate light as a performance accessory... who would have thought!

I should have seen the writing on the wall.

Cory, ill definitely let you know. Was hoping to have the car back on the road this weekend. The part from TR was shipped to someone else's house. Fed Ex left it on the back door step, package gone. Ahhh, city living!

Nice. You can use my address, if you need to. I'm 20 minutes away.

Let me know when you guys want to come up. We can grab a bite at one of my places and go for a nice chilly east coast fall cruise.

TC stated: "The master cylinder will most likely be next"

TC, you could not have been more bang on. After two weeks of the car sitting waiting for a new pedal assembly I was finally able to drive it this weekend. When filling up the gas tank I noticed my break fluid in the reservoir was very low. I topped it up and left the car to sit overnight. The next morning I had a puddle of brake fluid under the car. Not even 600 miles on the tachometer yet. Could it be loose breaklines at the master cylinder?

I am going to attempt to install a sway bar this evening. Good time to check out the connections.

My Tachometer will automatically jump to the peg (beyond 6k) when I do anything more than idle. I was sent a diagram showing a possible ground that could have been left off at the back of the tach, it was. some 18 g wire and 10 minutes I had it grounded per the diagram. Did not help. There was also a note from TR stating the engine may not have been grounded. What should I be looking for? The ground straps I have seen in the past are large, flat braided metal. Same thing on these cars? From what to what would it most likely be spanning? Where should I look for it?

Paul

The stock ground strap is usually on the side of the transaxle case, on the driver's side attached to one of the secondary housing bolts. It's busy in that forward area, so you may have to look for it.

It's a really good idea to run a ground strap from the starter bolt to the negative battery terminal directly. An easy routing and a sure way to insure a rock solid ground for the engine/trans/chassis/battery.

In the past, when running electronics in the car (MSD and HEI) I've run small woven patch straps from the distributor bracket bolt to the generator stand stud, and from there to the starter mounting bolt. Double insurance, over-kill, but it sucks to loose ignition after a three hour drive to the track. Happened once with a bad condenser, again with a Pertronix II, NEVER again.

I have begun photo documentation of my car in order to better communicate with Thunder Ranch the problems with their delivered product. I gave the link to the shop several weeks ago along with a written description of known issues.

http://picasaweb.google.com/paulericrich/ThunderRanchSpeedsterQualityOfBuildOutstandingIssues#

Paul,
You have a lot to complain about. It looks as though the car was involved in some mishap and they tried to touch it up. It looks, to me, to need a complete paint job. When you went out to check out the car, prior to delivery, were most of these problems apparent then?
Very sorry about your misfortune.

" Roll er' into the truck, it's going far enough away to care".
........Seems to be the latest trend from a couple builders.

Paul,
I have the master cylinder from my brake conversion that I never used. I just left the old one in and only put on the new calipers and rotors. It's yours if you want it. I'm only up in Wilmington so you could have it right away if you want it. Let me know.

I, too, have the question; were these evident when you went out for the final inspection?? How long prior to deivery did you visit for an inspection??

I have never seen side windows with the hardware on the outside before.

Photo 52: Looks like the bumper took a hit.

There's plenty else there to complain about. The overall paint job and finish work looks like the work of a bargain shop around the corner, done by amateurs. NOT what you would expect coming from a "Best Paint" or "Best Overall" Award-winning builder.

There was no quality control on this build...

Paul, you have my sympathy! You have every right to be disapointed with that build. You obviuosly have gone over the car with a fine tooth comb which is justified. There is so much wrong it would probably be better for thunder ranch to start again! Those snags all put down on paper would cover pages and pages. Hope you get some satisfaction soon

I could be wrong but aren't those side curtains on the wrong side?

I think you are right Bob, the curtains are bass-ackwards and they aren't supposed to be rounded like that. There is a front and a back. Seems like a home design curtain.

Also on the paint, looks like it was painted in a room where flies could drop on and die and they picked them off and tried to hide with clear.

The Porsche emblem on the front was ham-fisted attached to the car. They need to be slightly bent before the holes are drilled to get a proper wrap around the shape.

It isn't that your car isn't nice, it is. But there are many little things that show mom/pop build in my opinion. Regardless of what their advertisement stated, the best source is other owners on this site.

Owning these cars means you need to take care of many issues yourself and be fine with it. But, I understand how you would be disappointed with spending good money on.....well, maybe less than good quality.

I think we all agree there are only a few good builders out there and many older ones that have been made good over time.

Wow, Paul, you have my sympathies. Be assured that all of the problems can be solved, but it will take more time (and $$) that you shouldn't have to deal with. The side curtains look like you have them mounted inside out, but I can't be sure. The paint damage in inexcusable. Looks like someone had been hitting the sauce or something. As for the sloping side deco, the yellow car on the TR website has the same issue.