Thunder Ranch build thread

Transaxle is out. It's heavier than I remember.   Ed said in a high pitched voice ~

They always look lighter when still attached to the frame horns.  Get them out onto the floorand suddenly they weigh over 80 pounds.  Still, lighter than the engine.   

Memories of removing and installing a GM Turbo 350 transmission car on jack stands bathed in trans fluid flat on my back in gravel with the trans resting on my chest,  the things we did when the personal coffers were nil .

Love the look of the leather clam gasket. Looks downright steampunk with those rivets!

Alan Merklin posted:

Memories of removing and installing a GM Turbo 350 transmission car on jack stands bathed in trans fluid flat on my back in gravel with the trans resting on my chest,  the things we did when the personal coffers were nil .

 

Funny, I've got almost exactly the same memory. Except in mine, I'm yelling to my brother to get off his butt and help...

Engine and trans together again for the first time.

Engine crane is assembled, space is cleared in the garage to get everything put together. Spyder is on dollies and the back part of the frame is cleaned up, mostly.

Looks like everything's set, Ed.

Live band or DJ?

edsnova posted:

Engine and trans together again for the first time.

Is that a potato gun on the shroud, Ed?

Alan Merklin posted:

Memories of removing and installing a GM Turbo 350 transmission car on jack stands bathed in trans fluid flat on my back in gravel with the trans resting on my chest,  the things we did when the personal coffers were nil .

 

Been there, done that. 

But those days are long gone, thankfully.

The worst I ever did was while installing a 3 sp manual in a car. I was laying with my head up towards the front of the car and the trans on my chest.  This way I could see when I had the input shaft going into the T/O beg and the clutch disc. At first you have to tilt it lower in the back to slide it in. I had already filled it full of 90wt lube thinking it's easier to put it in now rather than after the trans is in.. Since the drive shaft was out a lot of the 90wt ran out. I was skinny then, my Levi's were loose at the waist band and it was cool not to wear underwear then so all the nice warm 90wt ran down into my pants and all down around my nuts. Since it was warm I didn't feel it until I got the trans in and crawled out from under the car. What a sticky/smelly  mess to clean up !  I never was able to wash that smelly lube out of my pants so I had to throw them out......Bruce

Ah, transmission woes.......

After a few years, my CMC Speedster build was going very slowly and my wife kind-of got tired of waiting (and took some pity on me) so she found a really spiffy looking red Austin Healey 3000 right in our neighborhood.  We bought it.

It was in better than OK shape, but the overdrive was a lost cause, so I drove it home and decided to pull the OD to get it rebuilt.  Everything I read “on the Internet” told me it was way easier to pull the transmission and OD together as a unit, so I pulled the seats, carpets, bellhousing cover and floor panels (they are all easily removed), got a jack under it and removed the mating bolts.  Then, my son came home from college for the weekend and we decided to pull it out together.

We chose to use a pair of chains, slung under the transmission and we stood up on the sills of the car (doors way open) thinking that we could just lift it out enough to sit it on a sill, then remove it.  That was the plan.

No where, on the Internet, does it say, “Caution - This gearbox was originally designed for a tractor and weighs about 125 pounds.  No where.  

We start tugging and pulling, muscles bulging, vertebrates cracking, lots of grunting, veins turning red in our necks and foreheads, but the gearbox barely moved.  It probably took 30 minutes of straining (there may have been a few choice swears used) to finally get it moved back and freed from its’ comfy spot in the chassis and by then we were both wasted.  We finally had it on a sill and moved around to lift it up and moved to the shop floor to remove the OD.  

My son looks at me and says, “let me know when this is ready to go back in so I can find something to do at school instead, ok?”

Lane Anderson posted:

Is that a potato gun on the shroud, Ed?

Lane: See https://www.speedsterowners.co...build-thread?page=13, wise guy.

Tonight after dinner I made a couple of brackets to hoist the engine and transaxle with.

And here's a glamour shot for @ALB:

Engine is in. 

Thanks to Cory Drake for his help tonight.

Well done, Ed! Looks lovely. I like the leather seal engine lid gasket - nice touch!

Anand

Looking great, Ed.

I'm surprised you're using a Crispix box in the engine compartment, though.

Crispix wasn't introduced by Kellogg's until 1983, and so couldn't have been tossed aside by a mechanic or used for cardboard aided design in the 1950s. The Ralston Purina products that Crispix was developed to compete with, though, were around since the 1930's, so would be much more period correct.

I know, I know, go try to find an original Ralston Purina Rice Chex box today - unobtainium since they were bought out by General Mills 20 years ago, but it's details like that that make all the difference.

@edsnova wrote- "And here's a glamour shot for @ALB:"

They need to be bigger- and look at all that material between them!

A Malto Meal  or Aunt Jemima Buckwheat Pancake box would have worked OK too !

Your car is turning out to be the most interesting project I have ever seen on this site !

By the way...Who would accept a gift to take to the Carlisle Event for the Raffle ?  Just send me your address so I can get it to you............Bruce

PM sent

Got it Lane and Thank you............Bruce

ALB's favorite cheese...........wait for it...........swiss!

Thank you, I'll be every day!

Panhandle Bob posted:

ALB's favorite cheese...........wait for it...........swiss!

Thank you, I'll be every day!

And try the veal!

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Looking great, Ed.

I'm surprised you're using a Crispix box in the engine compartment, though.

Crispix wasn't introduced by Kellogg's until 1983, and so couldn't have been tossed aside by a mechanic or used for cardboard aided design in the 1950s. The Ralston Purina products that Crispix was developed to compete with, though, were around since the 1930's, so would be much more period correct.

I know, I know, go try to find an original Ralston Purina Rice Chex box today - unobtainium since they were bought out by General Mills 20 years ago, but it's details like that that make all the difference.

 

Mitch you are my target market.

Yeah, I figured as much, Ed.

Just trying to keep you focused.

Blog on the engine insertion process, which was somewhat complicated by my attempt at making it a little easier.

Your link doesn't work, Ed.

I think this is the link.

Ed...I was looking at your link. I noticed that you used your drill press to clean up the hole in your transaxle bracket. Here's a suggestion that makes it easier and faster to to do this on your drill press...........Bruce

It looks better this way. It's made of scrap 3/4" plywood about 12' square and the bottom is closed up too. I just stick my shopvac hose in that hole. (a friction fit). Keeps stuff out of my nose n lungs.....Bruce

I use Unibits, the next step cleans holes nicely.

Ed, those two bottom transmission mount bolts are the bane of Spyder life. Easier to get to when the trans goes in first, then install and tighten. Then goes in the motor, but that's in my car with no torsion bar. I can see why you did it your way.

Do yourself a favor and weld an O2 sensor bung in your exhaust where the two mufflers merge by the tailpipe for tuning purposes.

Gordon Nichols posted:

They always look lighter when still attached to the frame horns.  Get them out onto the floorand suddenly they weigh over 80 pounds.  Still, lighter than the engine.   

Before I disassembled the late model single side cover (I wanted the case with it's offset top webbing for my Berg 5) transaxle I weighed it on the bathroom scale- 72 lbs. I'm sure a swing axle trans, minus only drums and axle nuts must come in at around 95 lbs. 

X-2 what Danny said on the O2 sensor bung...........Bruce

14 hours this weekend and almost no progress. Looking for new bulb sockets for the brake/running lights. Broke one of the lights trying to remove it after putting it on. (Fixed; they're just silicone glued). got no joy testing circuits with the battery in and grounded—power at the light switch at least... Hating my crimp connectors as you can just barely squeeze the shrink tube over them (and only then if you cut the ends off them before crimping). 

I mean dammit all to hell. 

Good news: Vred Sprint Classics came yesterday (the day after I ordered them) so they'll be going on the V-190s tomorrow morning and the spare tire will be mounted as well. So at least I'll be able to cross that off my to-do list.

edsnova posted:

14 hours this weekend and almost no progress. Looking for new bulb sockets for the brake/running lights. Broke one of the lights trying to remove it after putting it on. (Fixed; they're just silicone glued). got no joy testing circuits with the battery in and grounded—power at the light switch at least... Hating my crimp connectors as you can just barely squeeze the shrink tube over them (and only then if you cut the ends off them before crimping). 

I mean dammit all to hell. 

Hey Ed, it still looks brilliant even if some of the lights aren't on yet. I sprang for an upgraded crimper a few months ago when I was laying out the harness. I still hate it, too. Good luck

Mike

Good, cost effective crimper

https://www.amazon.com/TC-1-Ra...0188101524&psc=1

Even with a good quality aviation ratcheting crimper, joints can be at the mercy of a poor quality connector. Now I strip off the plastic part on the connector, crimp, inspect, then solder every joint. That is followed by a well sized heat shrink and sometimes I double that. 

I'm with David.

For headlight connections, this is my crimping tool:

Vreds on V-190s (plus a steel spare with an older Federal). Mounted and balanced, ready to go. This is Chris, my tire/wheel guy. 

I also put in an application for a Carlisle feature spot, in the hut. They want all kinds of pics for this and advise "plain background" and "good light" and obviously they assume the car is, uh, erm... assembled for all this. I uploaded some closeups of some of my talking points (more than 50 unusual Spyderesque details by my count) and emailed  Ed to state my position.

If they green-light me I'm bringing the Spyder, probably on a trailer. 

If not, probably not. She won't have any kind of top and probably the tonneau won't be right by then either so if there's no covered showcase spot I'll pull Bridget's engine and try to get the head gaskets replaced instead. 

Good luck on scoring the hut. Although, if you think about it, it would mean that you have built a trailer queen :-)

Temporary trailer queen, I hope.

Steering shaft is in and adjusted (with a BFH) for proper length and gap. Hey does anyone have a spare steering shaft nut? I had two when i checked a few months ago and now both've gone missing. DM me if you can mail me one.

I keep plugging in wires and I still have nothing by way of operable electrical accessories. 

Lotta what i assume are ground wires aren't attached to anything yet though, so I'mma put the wheels on her and lift her up and take the floor off so I can get my grounding bus squared away.

Also gotta put the clam back on and check to see if the engine fits under it. Looks a little bit high where the pipe comes off the top of the fan shroud. I don't recall anyone ever saying the DTM Type 1 shroud doesn't fit a Spyder. Does anyone know for sure it doesn't?

"...I keep plugging in wires and I still have nothing by way of operable electrical accessories..."

Did you remember to fill the wires with smoke?

NOT A BRITISH CAR!

There must be some electrical bits from Hong Kong - once a British crown colony.

edsnova posted:

Also gotta put the clam back on and check to see if the engine fits under it. Looks a little bit high where the pipe comes off the top of the fan shroud. I don't recall anyone ever saying the DTM Type 1 shroud doesn't fit a Spyder. Does anyone know for sure it doesn't?

If it doesn't, I don't wanna know about it. That shot of a DTM in reverse looks suitably excellent to me. Really stupid-cool.

Ed, some cars will have that top oil cooler hose tube hit the bottom of the clamshell, some not. Lenny's does not hit on his type4 powered Vintage with DTM. I think if it does hit you can flatten it some.

My 911 fan ring used to hit the clamshell under extreme conditions, like banging the next gear very hard, until I installed a stiffer rear trans mount and a transmission strap. There is no movement any more, thankfully.

So you have no working electrical because it's messed up or because you have nothing hooked to the ends of the wires?

Thanks, Danny.

Wires are not all hooked up. I'm trying to get front lights first for that small victory feeling but the car's fighting me.

What bulb sockets do y'all use for the parking/brake/signal lights? The ones I got fit loose and I haven't been able to source more than one (long discontinued) that fits tight. (And yeah I bent the tabs some).

Holes in mine are 1 1/8 inch. 

edsnova posted:

NOT A BRITISH CAR!

Blimey, mate.  More's the pity.  Still, you should be proper chuffed at that.

Ed, I'm not sure you have the time now but maybe you could change that top fan shroud outlet to a square shape then back to round a little lower ?.........Bruce

Update on the Week Of Struggles. Thursday night: 

And this morning.

Also greased up and installed my parking brake cables and then broke one of them while reinstalling the caliper. 

Also, Summit emailed to let me know one of the fittings I ordered can't ship until May 6. Dang! I knew I should've ordered from Allit.

But I did find several steering wheel nuts so at least there's that.

Keeping my fingers crossed

Nah. I think I'm beat. It's been a day, fellas.

Might set this aside and see about replacing Bridget's head gaskets. 

That's looking mighty good.

You're getting there, Ed....

Update. Working on fitting the sway bar now and, surprisingly, there's a lot to do. Like...make more brackets:

Well, the good news is that you should becoming expert at bracket fab by now.......     

Pull your Mig gun Ed, and turn up the heat a little.

Danny, the welder's at max and the penetration is good, I think. It's laying down and stacking up. This is no good?

Made the bar ends today. Will weld them tomorrow.

The village smithy has been hard at work.

Are you at all concerned that welding on the sway bar will weaken it?  I would be concerned that you will change the temper of the spring steel that was used to make it.

Years ago, I read about some guys that cut 2-4” out of stock VW sway bars to use with narrowed beams, but the bars broke in the heat affected zone.

I was under the impression that there is a procedure for welding spring steel. I'll get a hold of my nephew and ask. I'll let you's guys know when I find out something...

Ed aint scared!

There IS a procedure for welding “spring steel”.

Usually the parts being welded are pre-heated in the area of the weld (for depth of weld penetration) but this isn’t always necessary.  The act of welding will anneal the metal at, and immediately around the weld joint, causing the metal to soften (that’s where and why the joint will fail, just off to the side of the weld intersect).  Often, a welded piece will suffer another break later on, not precisely at the original weld joint but off to the side (where it was softened).  The weld itself is usually harder than the original metal.

The way the newly welded joint is made hard again is to broadly heat the newly welded area to a specific temperature or color (most heat treaters go by the color of the metal) and then quickly quench it in oil to rapidly bring the metal temperature down and that process re-hardens the metal.  But this is a relatively precise process to get the hardness that you want in the finished spring steel piece (sometimes a durometer is used).  Too hot makes the metal very hard but brittle and will more easily break.  Not hot enough makes it softer and it will bend/break.  The usual process is weld the ends onto your bar, then heat the entire bar to a specific color, then quench the whole bar in an oil bath.  That will make the whole thing the same.

IIRC, there are special welding rods for welding spring steel.  Your local welding supply shop should be able to help with what you need. 

Ed;   After going back and reviewing the proposed welded ends for your bar, I think this fits into the “what the hell, I’m just gonna do it,” realm.  The welding will be done in segments around the bar and the bar is too thick to worry about weakening it just at the ends so weld it up and install it.  The bar will probably last  forever.

Ed, are you using a 110v flux core machine?  There is no way you will get decent penetration if so.  

LI-Rick posted:

Are you at all concerned that welding on the sway bar will weaken it?  I would be concerned that you will change the temper of the spring steel that was used to make it.

Years ago, I read about some guys that cut 2-4” out of stock VW sway bars to use with narrowed beams, but the bars broke in the heat affected zone.

Yeah which is why I'm only welding on the last half inch of each end of the bar. If I embrittle the last inch or so (which is unlikely) the rest of the bar should still work as intended and the chances of the bar breaking are about nil.

Latest:

I test-fit the bar with the ends today, then cut about an inch off each end, re-slotted the ends and tacked these on to re-check how the proposed end links fit.

Since my brackets on the lower trailing arms were designed for something else, I might re-make the piece that attaches the heim joint to the suspension.

Looks like I could just strap/clamp a piece of angle iron to it . . .

I could take a pic of how mine are done, if that would help.  Basically just clamped with a silicone snubber.  The "attachment" is bolts and washers and nuts in a clamp..  Very basic deal.  Want the pic??

PS: In theory, I track Gordon's explanation of how the metal responds to heat. He has it about right, according to what I learned in school.  That said I have zero experience with this, so could give no practical help as to how to do the heat treat, nor whether the result you have here would in fact be either too weak or too brittle.

And: your welds look pretty good to me.  Practice makes perfect, I'm thinking.

On steering and other critical components I still tack weld them then have the welds professionally done.

Not sure an anti sway bar would be considered critical, but maybe.  If it broke or cracked and maybe fell off, methinks the car would still steer. 

My frame modification to allow flat towing was dreamed up by me, but was executed by a professional welder who is more artist than mechanic.  My job was pretty mundane:a  frame out of angle iron and plate.  But it was done perfectly. His real work is on hot rods, mostly custom headers and pipes.  Mostly stainless, very complicated and as I said, works of art, really.  Short of story: a truly good welder is a hard thing to find.

Guys. 

The bar is like 7/16ths diameter but remember, it's not butt-welded. I slotted it and then notched the plates so they snap together.

This does two things: 1. it creates a kinetic hold between the parts, independent of the weld. 2. it narrows the welded edges on the bar to less than the thickness of the attached plate.

After fitting them I beveled the edges to give a little undercut for the wire feed. And remember the scale:

This is 3/16 mild plate. It's right about the max of what a flux 110 is supposed to be able to handle in one pass. It's handled.

Looks fine to me.  Your approach is perfect, Ed.  Go wit it!

Just have something hip playing on the Shop Blaster when you do the welds.  "Gettin Jiggy Wit It" sounds about right...

I think the sway bar is fine Ed. And your approach to the making the ends is good. I'm just used to using gas shielding. 

Sometimes I weld thicker stuff using gas AND flux core, plus a little torch preheat.

Cool, I was also thinking of a Swaybar link/control arm clamp thingy too.

How are you connecting the sway bar at the beam?

Carlos, I'd be betting on standard swaybar brackets.

Correct. 

• Product ID: 9.5151
• Product Name: Universal Sway Bar Bushings - 11mm (0.43 inch)
• Quantity: 1
• Unit Price: $20.87
•     > Color : Black
    

I mounted them on the beam mounts, so they're a bit more centrally located than is ideal, but the Bug bar bends in such a way that welding tabs to the beam carriers at the ends like Danny did would be a little more difficult. Still doable though--and I might go for it if these don't work hard enough as is.

I also spaced them off the beam about a quarter inch using two pieces of plate.

Brackets on the trailing arms now are two bits of tubing with ears welded to them. The biggest ears will ride on top and capture the heim joint end. The smaller ones on the bottom and bolted through to clamp the tubing around the arm.

I painted the sway bar stuff this morning and installed it tonight. Looks like it should function as a sway bar albeit without much damping pressure. Nothing to do now but snug it all down, try it and see how it does.

Not to be hypocritical...

Here's Bridget's engine bundled up for the other machine shop. Sent it off with a neighbor today to get the block decked about 3-4 thousanths. The heads came back last week and, looking at them, compared to the mating surface on the block, I just could not in good conscience put it back together without doing this. Pretty sure I gruffed it up beyond eligible spec with the scotch brite pad in the drill, a trick Danny suggested but that I obviously goofed on—probably with a too-rough pad. Luckily, the neighbor's diesel engine rebuilding outfit has a pretty big mill, and they told me (contra what my regular machine shop required) that I did not have to tear the engine down to the bare case halves to get this job done.

Thoughts and prayers, men.

Here's the first rough CAD of the front half of my (proposed) rear engine underpan thingy. I made this the other day whilst nervously pondering Bridget's engine's fate, awaiting pick-up.

This is just a first mock-up. I have paused to consider how the airflow through the fan and the cylinders/heads needs to join the air flowing under the car. The J tubes from the Sebring exhaust run directly under the heads about a quarter inch below the pushrods. Tight. There are no sled tins on there now and I'm thinking my first task is to make those, tight over those exhaust pipes, and exit the air just behind the engine and duct it into the channels for the exhaust pipes there. Simple, right?

Here's what Wendler came up with—and a much easier job it was on a Type 547 engine, with its bottom-exiting pipes set conveniently in the middle of the heads.

Arjani's car is a bit harder to do than an original, since he has a Type 1 mill. . . 

—But at least he has the correct S-shaped cross member mounting the enigine. On my car, it's straight and rectangular and situated right where I want to dump the hot air: basically another restriction or choke point in the perfect wrong spot. 

And the second pipe there joins the party with a nice fat collector and a flange.

Looking at it tonight I can see the way forward (I think). But it's going to be some tricky duct-making, at best. . . .

At least the sway bar project is done. 

Love your CAD method !...........Bruce

We need a badge or something:

"Cardboard Aided Designers of America"

Digression update: Bridget is back up and running.

Got the engine back on Tuesday, put it back together over the next few nights (Heads on: 10 pm, Thursday) and got it back in the car by Saturday noon.

 Oil back in. Hoses all reattached; wires. Antifreeze. Bleeders. Bleeders. Bleeders. Started her in the driveway about 6:30 and...

She got up to 180F without puking into the overflow bottle. 

Was running rough though—surging at idle—which pissed me off since I installed a new Idle Air Control Valve while I was in there. Figured I had to have a vacuum leak.

—Which I found this morning. (So, so many little hoses under and around those intakes). Fixed that and started her up. Nice smooth idle! Had a knock which I put down to a noisy lifter an/or exhaust leak. Cranked on the exhaust bolts about an eighth turn beyond the specified torque. . . 

More bleeders. Took most of today to get the back half of the body screwed together. Short test run around the neighborhood. Came up to temp again with no drama. Sucked a quart out of the overflow bottle (which is good).

More bleeders, refill, etc. And finally an afternoon start and longer cruise. Loaded my neighbor in her for part of that. Ran the gears a bit more aggressively. The tick/knock quieted down nicely. Got her up to about 195F before the fan came on, which is perfect.

One more bleeder session tomorrow and, if everything checks out, I'll consider the red car to be "normal" and turn my full attention once again to the blue car.

I thought the world seemed to be spinning more smoothly on its axis this morning, Ed.  No I know why.  Good on ya!

Frunk paint.

Also, aluminum bits.

It's gonna be tough to recycle that Granola box with the paint all over it.  

The PPP's ("Paint Pollution Police") will be all over that one.

Maybe hide it down in the middle of the bin?

Seriously, though......

What goes where the Granola box was/is?  

 And I know from experience that it took a while to mask everything off.  2 hours of masking for 10 minutes of paint.  Well Done!

And all I did was paint my utility trainer - With a roller!

Thinking of stenciling "Lil Red Wagon" or "Radio Flyer" down the side

Dude you're gonna want to hand-paint that with a brush. In cursive.

"Snel Roundhand" in Word for Mac.

300 Font

Looks like handwriting better than mine.  Frikkin awesome.

Now, just have to cut out a stencil and wait for a dry, sunny day.

edsnova posted:

Dude you're gonna want to hand-paint that with a brush. In cursive.

I would stencil "Gordon's Mortuary and Crematory Service" on the side. Every time you go to the dump and empty the trailer people will have to stop, stare, and wonder what the heck you're unloading at the dump.

"If found Please Return To"

How bout " Gordon's Meat Wagon" , "(and you can't beat my meat !)"

Battery hold down studs.

Robert M posted:

edsnova posted:

Dude you're gonna want to hand-paint that with a brush. In cursive.

I would stencil "Gordon's Mortuary and Crematory Service" on the side. Every time you go to the dump and empty the trailer people will have to stop, stare, and wonder what the heck you're unloading at the dump.

Ok, Robert, I just choked on my dinner!

Nice hunka wood yah got there, Ed!

Classy hold-down strap, too!

Way better than my rubber bungee cord....   

Wait.......    Is that my missing 10mm wrench?

No it's not Gordon.

The wood standoff and riveted 1-inch steel hold down straps are as original. 

You can tell this photo is early in the battery mounting process.

It's before the wood block was drilled for lightness.

ALB posted

Ok, Robert, I just choked on my dinner!

Al, when are you going to learn?

Gordon, I have your 10mm. I have them all. We got "The Perfect 10" at Carlisle this year!

(That is a set of box, open, socket, deep socket, and flex-head 10mm wrenches)

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

You can tell this photo is early in the battery mounting process.

It's before the wood block was drilled for lightness.

 

 

They will be painted black. Like

Ed, looking good!

Hey, that brings up an interesting Spydie question: 

When I was pulling the windshield from that AME Spyder in Charlestown, the hood was not hinged, but had a couple of big tabs at the front to fit under the frunk lip, and at the rear of the hood there was a pair of quarter-turn click-fasteners to lock it down.   Is this common on Spyders or unique to AME?  Just curious.

The owners said that he had a method for removing the hood solo, but it was certainly easier with two people to just lift it off.

Don't forget to chamfer those lightening holes. That will help to make it even lighter!

Bruce