Thunder Ranch build thread

@edsnova posted:

Thanks. By now you'd be forgiven for waiting for the audio book.

Hey Ed, a couple of thoughts on your temp gauge/sender/cold running issues:

Does Jake's DTM setup include a thermostat?

Do you have an oil thermostat installed?

10W/30?

 

I ask because my Beck did the same thing when I bought it. It would barely lift the needle after a half hour of city driving. The only time it reached "operating temperature" was after 10-15 of 3-3500rpm highway driving. Then, ironically, if I pulled a long grade, it would almost overheat. Like you, I suspected a faulty sender of an ohm must-match between the 356 gauge and the VW sender  

After a lot of reading in the Samba, I ditched the cheap Chinese shroud which, of course, the builder had omitted the thermostat. Last year I ditched all that and installed a Thing shroud, with thermostat, a Type IV oil cooler, and switched to 30 weight Rotella T2.

Oil is a can of worms and, like the old joke, everyone has an opinion and everybody elses's stinks. Before my mods running several types of multi-weight, my oil pressure light would flicker at 900rpm. After a bunch of reading, I accepted the rational that multi-weight oil wasn't around until the very end of the air cooled vw's life. I know BP is a good oil, I ran Motul 300v 15w-50, which us too. My motor sounded like a box of rocks. With the Rotella, it's smooth as butter. 

Best of all, after my mods, my engine warms up twice as fast and the gauge rarely varies from "12o'clock high."

Interesting observations, @dlearl476. FAIK the Raby DTM has no thermostat nor provisions for same. In my case I've not yet been able to run the engine over the road, so I can't say yet if it behaves similarly to yours—but it's a strong possibility. The gauge and (original) sender that came with it were supposedly matched and calibrated by the good folks at North Hollywood Speedometer, and I have no cause to doubt their work. 

As for oil: Brad Penn "Green" 20-50 is specified (very adamantly, I might add) by the engine's builder. I see no reason to vary that, given his dire warnings.

So the plan right now is to get the car registered and legal & see how she does underway. I'll revisit the issue then, though I do plan to invest in an infrared thermometer in the meantime to spot-check head temps and such.

@edsnova posted:

Interesting observations, @dlearl476. FAIK the Raby DTM has no thermostat nor provisions for same. In my case I've not yet been able to run the engine over the road, so I can't say yet if it behaves similarly to yours—but it's a strong possibility. The gauge and (original) sender that came with it were supposedly matched and calibrated by the good folks at North Hollywood Speedometer, and I have no cause to doubt their work. 

As for oil: Brad Penn "Green" 20-50 is specified (very adamantly, I might add) by the engine's builder. I see no reason to vary that, given his dire warnings.

So the plan right now is to get the car registered and legal & see how she does underway. I'll revisit the issue then, though I do plan to invest in an infrared thermometer in the meantime to spot-check head temps and such.

Yeah, I get that BP thing. Brad's devotees are, shall we say, religious in their fervor. 

FWIW, I'm the same way about Motul, but the straight weight Motul Classic is $12/L vs $8.95/gal for the Rotella. A real shame, as I can get the 300V for free. But like I said, the motor sounds awful with it.  

How about the oil thermostat?  If you don't have that, cold oil will circulate through the cooler and further impede warming up. 

U going to drive the MG to Ohio?
The Bugeyeguy’s web site has a nice white 58 MGA

PSS: What type of nutserts did you use on your windshield?

When I bought mine, it had the lexan screen on it. Luckily, I bought it about 25 miles from Bremen so I immediately drove over and had Carey go through the car before I drove back to NYC. One of the things I had them do was install the Speedster screen but, as Carey warned me, the top frame is right in my line of sight, so I want to go back to the lexan screen. 

I used these long throw nutserts for my gas tank, as I figure regular nutserts would just crack the fiberglass. Until I read your blog, I was considering enlisting a helper and just using stainless sheet metal screws and speed clips, but I like your idea better. 

 

I just bought aluminum 6-32 nut certs from McMaster Carr. The wide ones are made for thicker material and have ribbed edges to grip the fiberglass. The skinny ones are shorter pull and I used those mostly in the aluminum bits under the back of the car.

@edsnova posted:

I just bought aluminum 6-32 nut certs from McMaster Carr. The wide ones are made for thicker material and have ribbed edges to grip the fiberglass. The skinny ones are shorter pull and I used those mostly in the aluminum bits under the back of the car.

So you didn't use the slotted ones like I posted that flair out into an "X" like a hollow wall anchor?

i also thought about using well nuts by I figured the rubber head would be enough to cause a leak in the leather gasket.  

Which reminds me, I assume you got yours sorted. I was going to post (before I saw that the thread list was a couple of years old) that I'm going to use several slatherings of mink oil waterproof shoe dressing before I install it. I figure that will be waterproof enough for a convert with no top or windshield wipers.

Short update: Still waiting for MVA to open.

I got the engine tins fettled up with riv-nuts and such so pretty much all the air going through the cooling fins will be forced down and under the car, below the aluminum belly. Set up the leading edge of the belly pan with like 3/16-inch gap to scoop air in ahead of the louvers. It won't be the lowest part of the car, but it's still just under my target 5-inch clearance. I may yet adjust the rear wheels to lift the car up a quarter inch or so before I set her free. 

Discovered the rear brake calipers were going to interfere with the inner fender wells, so I trimmed them. Quite a bit. Glad I noticed before taking a spirited run over some speed humps.

Popped on the registration rearview mirror. Will pull this off and put the plexi on asap with a short stem mirror.

(And yes, I know I remain unspeakably handsome despite these Unprecedented Times.)

Today I went and put the last emblems on the car. Pretty psyched I could use the pins and push nuts.

They look almost as nice from the front.

Trailer is ready when you need it. 

Just wow, that's all...

@Michael Pickett posted:

Just wow, that's all...

I'll call your "wow" and raise you a "Holy sh1t!"

Not bad.  Not bad at all....

Bloody amazing, actually...

Bam.

Ed , you killed it man ! You get the Seal of Approval ~

Truly remarkable and inspiring, Ed.  Thanks for taking the time to let the rest of us experience the challenges and accomplishments of your monumental project.  Good on ya!

When this post has an update from Ed first thing in the morning, it's better than coffee! 

Hey just a reminder that I entered this half-finshed junk in the Pelican Parts remote/social distanced car show as a prize contestant and they did place it among the Best DIY Project finalists. So if you vote for me and I win I'll share my glory by means of some sort of illegal kickback.

They make you click on a half different links to get to the DIY but try this to get just to Ed's car:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/5DL5DV9

Done. 5 stars! Good luck.

Did anybody notice in the Modified section of the virtual car show (pic #55) the 911 engine with the velocity stacks and what appears to be pieces of lexan mounted just above the stacks.

Is that to keep residue from coming down into the filters, to funnel air to the stacks or just to express how cool the car is, or, any combination of the above?

Ed, building that car is a terrific achievement!

Thankee. The original gallery had lots of pics of each entry but I don't remember what the context was for the flat 6. The whole gallery was a feast for the eyes, and some of the entries were truly outstanding in terms of photography composition, etc. 

Others were just mind-melting displays of wealth.

And still others were both!

Vote Early, and vote Often......

Two guys running for select-board in my town.  Joe Early and Sue Often.

We're having a lot of fun with this election.   Some uddah states might not unnahstan....

@Panhandle Bob posted:

Did anybody notice in the Modified section of the virtual car show (pic #55) the 911 engine with the velocity stacks and what appears to be pieces of lexan mounted just above the stacks.

Is that to keep residue from coming down into the filters, to funnel air to the stacks or just to express how cool the car is, or, any combination of the above?

Ed, building that car is a terrific achievement!

I think it's a mostly cosmetic interpretation of a debris filter like what's on a 917 engine. I've never seen it on a factory car, road or race. (But I could be mistaken)

I've seen a few cars with the simple screens over the velocity stacks (even considered doing the same on my dellortos) but that's the only car I've ever seen with the lexan bits. 

 

We're into touch-up paint now. Coming along OK

I got ot the 600-1000-1500-2000 grit as well and wet sanded some runs out of the rear passenger fender well as a test for getting the ones under the dashboard. That seems to be going well too: the runs are all but invisible pending compound application and there's no blue on the paper so far. 

Taking my time with this...

 

I wouldn't get rid of all the paint runs.

Folks need to know this is a hand-built car, right? You don't think Ferraris from the 60s were a little asymmetrical by accident, do you?

When they built my VS they were highly aware of this. They were careful to leave just a few drips and runs in conspicuous places, and it's very convincing.

 

How well you understand me, Mitch. These are period-correct subtleties some will never properly appreciate. 

Update: drat.

After a couple coats of color and a few of clear I'd got it looking pretty good. Then I opened the hood and tor it all right off again. 

Sanding the inside lower edge of the hood now for clearance & will take it off over the weekend to touch it up.

Stuff happens Ed... it is still a beauty.

So I did a few things the last few days including making an appointment at that MVA on Tuesday to title the car.

This may or may not actually happen as the state trooper who I understand has to sign off on this only works Tuesdays from 8 through noon, and the earliest (only) appointment I could make was 3:45. So I'll try him Monday and see if this can work. If it can't it'll be at least another two weeks. And so begins the Final Stage.

I bought a heavy duty bathroom scale and weighed each wheel today in turn while sliding plywood under the other tires to keep the car level: 1483 lbs total.

356                                   334

 

 

378                                  415

I'm not at all convinced these numbers are spot-on. Left rear is especially suspect as I jacked the car up on that corner to spin the adjuster screws a turn and lift, and did not then drive or roll the car to "settle" it. But they seem ballpark.

And I've been sanding the lower leading edge of the hood with 120 grit.

Funny story there. When Tommy got done with the paint he said something like "the hood's a little tight I can sand it if you want" and I was like NO! WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SAND NEW PAINT?

So obviously I should've said HELL YES YOU FIEND MAKE THE GODDAMN THING RIGHT! but also Tommy might have done better to say, instead of "a little tight," "it's gon' scrape" or better yet said nothing and just did it.

But that's not the story.

The story is, I've been cranking on the leading edge of the hood with 120 grit for a while. Lots and lots of white dust falling away. Sanding and testing the closure, sanding, testing, sanding, more dust. As one does.

This is the leading edge of the hood which I am sanding with the hood open meaning the edge is down and basically invisible to me.

I mean SANDING that mother. Again, with 120 grit.

So today I'm fixing to remove the hood so I can hit it with some 600 and tape it off for primer so I can then repaint that thin edge I've buggered up awful with all that sanding.

And I squat down real low.

And I tilt my head to look at it.

And the dang thing is STILL BLUE.

As in: painted.

I look at my 120 grit. A little blue there. Not much.

And I understand what has happened.

Turns out Tommy hung the hood to paint it, and the clear coat I gave him, formulated for long pot life at 85+ degrees F, ran down to the leading edge and lengthened it. I did not screw up my body prep; the panel gaps were good. 

Anyway, these are the sorts of things you learn.

I broke out the 2k primer/filler for the body edge that's damaged. 

This'll get cut down tomorrow with the 600 grit, re-masked and then sprayed with the Voodoo Blue x 3 and then the clear x 2 or 3, before a final blend with the high number wet paper and maybe the compound.

DannyP says that he is bringing the scales to Carlisle for a "weigh a ton" so I guess we can see who the biggest loser is, I vote for Holy Al.  

 

It's always something.

 

As of 10 a.m.:

 

Gonna peel the tape now and let it cure overnight before final wet sand with 600 to knock down the tape edge ridges. Only then will I get to find out if the dang thing actually fits now. 

If it does I'll go to 1000-1500-2000 and to a hand rub with the compound. 

If I use Tommy again I will understand his language.

Isn't is frustrating at times when you realize it was on your end, you heard the language, at least you thought you were hearing but the language did not reveal the intended results and only later you understood.  Sometimes too late.  

My frustrations often come when I realize that I actually knew or was told that there would be a problem, but let my natural optimism cause me to ignore it. Good luck, Ed.

It's all in the game, fellas. 

@Michael Pickett posted:

My frustrations often come when I realize that I actually knew or was told that there would be a problem, but let my natural optimism cause me to ignore it. Good luck, Ed.

Can I get an Amen!?!

Optimism has no place in building or troubleshooting. None. If it can break, it will break.

... like my clutch cable, just now.

@IaM-Ray posted:

DannyP says that he is bringing the scales to Carlisle for a "weigh a ton" so I guess we can see who the biggest loser is, I vote for Holy Al.  

It's the Yoda in me- he keeps on saying "this the way the path to eternal lightness is".  Sometimes I can't get him out of my head! 

On the other side of the coin, I've never denied I hear voices. My moral dilemma- once in a while one of them comes up with a really good idea. Is it ok if I take the credit?  Please help me out here, as I'm really at a crossroad... 

@edsnova posted:

Interesting observations, @dlearl476. FAIK the Raby DTM has no thermostat nor provisions for same. In my case I've not yet been able to run the engine over the road, so I can't say yet if it behaves similarly to yours—but it's a strong possibility. The gauge and (original) sender that came with it were supposedly matched and calibrated by the good folks at North Hollywood Speedometer, and I have no cause to doubt their work. 

As for oil: Brad Penn "Green" 20-50 is specified (very adamantly, I might add) by the engine's builder. I see no reason to vary that, given his dire warnings.

So the plan right now is to get the car registered and legal & see how she does underway. I'll revisit the issue then, though I do plan to invest in an infrared thermometer in the meantime to spot-check head temps and such.

Just so you know- what's important is combustion chamber temps, hence the reason for the head temp sensor being under a spark plug (bolted to the fuel injection boss, which is close, isn't close enough to give the same information or in real time). An infared thermometer will really only tell you if all the cylinders are firing.

I can’t use my IR thermometer for that right now.  My wife is using it for forehead readings when checking for Covid.     

Makes me feel like I’m going through TSA........   

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I can’t use my IR thermometer for that right now.  My wife is using it for forehead readings when checking for Covid.     

Makes me feel like I’m going through TSA........   

Geez, how long is the line to get into your house?