Thunder Ranch build thread

Well done, Captain Ed!

One step forward..........

Uh, better not finish that statement, Alan. 🥴

Uh...   Uh...  shoulda said Gordon.  Doh!

Blog post.

Thanks to all who gave encouragement and help in this build, and at Carlisle.

Nice update, Ed. Glad it got the attention it deserves.

@edsnova posted:

Blog post.

Thanks to all who gave encouragement and help in this build, and at Carlisle.

Your car is all that, Ed. Well done.

Hats off to you Ed, great perseverance.

Finally got back on the job this week. Bought the paint for the half tonneau ($200!) on Thursday and got after it today.

I decided not to use any filler on the panel, in keeping with my "messy as they probably were" aesthetic. Hit the rough spots with the Dremel, gave it a final bit of scuff, blew air on it, then wiped it down with acetone and a tack rag.

Primer is a 2k epoxy. The paint shop gave me this stuff in a spray can—just enough to cover the half tonneau. I suited up against the isocyanates.

I painted just outside the garage, then left it in the sun for an hour and flipped it to do the other side. Couple hours later and its in the garage again. I'll wet sand it tomorrow with a 400 grit block before mixing down 8 ounces the base coat, loading it into —and trying my luck.

Weather's supposed to be like today—75, partly cloudy, not too humid or windy.

I'll hang the panel with wire and S hooks from a Krause folding ladder in the driveway. That should give me good access to all sides.

If I'm lucky I'll be able to clear coat it on Tuesday or so.

Looking good, Ed. Nice gun, too!

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Suiting Up Against The Isocyanates

If you ever decide to write some dime store science fiction, dammit Ed, you’ve got the title and the cover art right there.

Yeah. Looking like Michael J. Fox in Back To The Future...

First time painting with my fancy new hplv gun it did not go smoothly. Had a deuce of a time getting the air pressure and spray pattern dialed in.

So the job required some remedial efforts with the 400 and then the 800 paper.

Eventually I got it looking OK.

Wish me luck on the next stage.

Looks pretty good for first time with a new gun. Every can of paint shoots a little bit different, too. As I'm sure you know, cardboard test shoots are your friend.

The good news is that with a Finish Line gun, you know it's all your fault and not the equipment :-)

That's true about Finishline guns - they're usually pretty good.  I had a beloved DeVilbis for many years and now don't have a glue where it got to - Chris may have it but by now it's OLD!   My one try with a HVLP gun (borrowed from a friend in Beaufort) was equally a disaster.  I just couldn't get the hang of it - Same goes for water-borne paints.  Give me something with thinners and fixers any time!

I second the cardboard test cards, though.  If you can't get the pattern you want on cardboard, it ain't gonna get any better on metal.

All this is precisely why I farmed out the paint on Pearl, BTW.......

I still use a De Vilbis JGA 502 that I've had for close to 40 years now- just painted a friend's buggy with it 2(?) weeks ago, shooting  a 2 component urethane.  I tried something a little different and got the  best finish yet with that type of material- this is in a mutual friend's garage/workshop.  I mixed different thinners for the 2nd and final coats.   We wet down the floor a little bit to keep the fan (and me while moving around) from stirring up dust.

@ALB, beautiful job! Those thinners seemed to do the trick.

The most important thing I learned in my 18 months of auto-body class was that painters are worth every penny you pay them.

My teacher, with 30 years of experience, could set a gun in about 30 seconds with three trial sprays. It would take me 3 minutes and a half-pint of paint.

Not to diverge too much into paint, but since I sold my painting setup in RI before we retired out here, I had to re-equip for the speedster spraying.

As some of you may remember, I bought a Fuji 2804-T75G Mini-Mite 4 Platinum  turbine HPLV system. No compressor, oil/water traps etc. It's a shoebox size lightweight turbine blower that works great with the HPLV gun that comes with it. It was perfect for my situation and is comfortably stored for when I need it.

I had gotten used to my DeVilbiss gun and 60 gallon compressor, but with just a little practice, I felt like I could do as good of a job with the Fuji (again, skill limited outcomes, not equipment limits).

Just throwing it in there for folks who are considering equipment.

I’m blessed in that about 30% of the guys I grew up with do auto body. I learned enough in my classes to do a hell of a prep, and can get a pro-level result by getting any of them to spray my work.

I'm a house/construction painter with lots of spray experience- everything from catalyzed furniture lacquer to interior and exterior latexes/architectural coatings to various 2, 3 and even (in one case) 4 component epoxies (trust me, you never want to have to spray coal tar epoxy!), with (over the years) a fair bit of after hours dabbling in various automotive enamels and urethanes/polyurethanes.  Although I'm fairly well versed with most spray systems- conventional, airless, electrostatic and even hvlp, I still prefer a conventional cup gun for automotive enamels and urethanes.  Conventional and airless are what I know best.  I have used an electrostatic (what a pain in the a$$!) and have limited hvlp experience- I understand it's different now, but when it first came out any nice materials I saw sprayed with hvlp had to be cut-polished to get rid of the orange peel and maximize the gloss/finish.  It just didn't seem to atomize the material all that well (again, like the electrostatic, it was one of the first hvlp's out there) so I never bothered to pursue it.

I don't spray stuff like that all that often (3 buggies in the last 5? years) and at the tender age of 64 I only do it for friends, so I'll stick with what I know.  I'm like Mike, that if I bought an hvlp unit and played with it a while I'm sure I could get acceptable results, but I'm not that into it...

I sprayed 3 or 4 cars back in the 80s.

I learned a lot about myself in the process. Painting takes something i don't have - the ability to stop when something is going sideways, and the ability to not pick at the flaws.

I'll never be a good painter (or drywaller), but that's OK. I know now.

I can paint cars fairly well but don't let me use an airless sprayer as that's another story. My first home I bought we gutted the walls and re-rocked it. Rented an airless sprayer to save time and get a primer coat on the walls and ceilings, I started in a closet so I could get the hang of it  ... I pulled the trigger, the paint line fitting popped out of the gun shooting the entire closet in primer and most of me, in two seconds....

@Michael Pickett posted:

@ALB, beautiful job! Those thinners seemed to do the trick.

I've sprayed urethanes/polyurethanes a few times over the years; being an industrial paint, they are a little more difficult to work with and get a really nice, automotive quality finish.  It's just not what that type of coating was originally designed to do.  I've always followed mixing volume instructions precisely using the proper temp thinner for conditions (almost always medium for anything around room temp, iIrc) and never failed to produce decent finishes (the guys were always happy and thought it looked great) but after the 2nd or 3rd time thought it could be a wee bit better.  This time around I talked Nelson into letting me buy a liter of slow thinner as well as the medium (the gentleman at the autobody supply store didn't think the slow thinner was necessary) and, working in balmy 78- 80° weather, I mixed the first coat with the recommended amount of medium speed thinner, mixed 20-25% slow thinner into 2nd coat and 3rd coat was close to 50% medium/50% slow thinner (and a splash more thinner than recommended overall as well).  It gave the top coat just that little bit longer to flow and outgas before skinning over and produced (what I consider) the nicest finish yet!  And that's my brother in the background...

Update: I am not good at the painting.

When my painting attains that level of quality, I switch to sandpaper. I keep lots of sandpaper around the house.

It'll work out.

@edsnova posted:

Update: I am not good at the painting.

It's good to know oneself. Self-awareness is woefully lacking in the modern age.

Next time I see you, I'll buy you a beer. Misery loves company.

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Give a man a rattle can and he sands for a day.

Teach a man how to use a paint gun, and he sands for the rest of his life.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

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Give a man a rattle can and he sands for a day.

Teach a man how to use a paint gun, and he sands for the rest of his life.

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Mitch, you have no idea how true that statement is!

Very true.

So it turns out that if you spray 2-part clear coat at 23 pounds per square inch pressure from a nice spray gun directly at a 10-ounce sheet of bent 5052 aluminum that is suspended from two holes along its top edge, what will happen is the spray pressure from the gun will swing the work farther away as you work down, and the swinging action of this sheet of material will cause the spray distance to vary significantly enough to cause trouble.

@ALB 

So what happened with the slower thinner vis a vis reducing orange peel?  

Do you think that it self leveled during the slower cure or is something else afoot?

@edsnova posted:

So it turns out that if you spray 2-part clear coat at 23 pounds per square inch pressure from a nice spray gun directly at a 10-ounce sheet of bent 5052 aluminum that is suspended from two holes along its top edge, what will happen is the spray pressure from the gun will swing the work farther away as you work down, and the swinging action of this sheet of material will cause the spray distance to vary significantly enough to cause trouble.

Had the same issue spraying MC gas tanks. Ending up draping them over a door/fender stand instead.

These things are handy for all sorts of stuff. I have a 2’x4’ piece of 1/2” Arboron that I set on top and it’s heavy enough to make a pretty stable work bench. 

@Gordon Nichols posted:

@ALB

So what happened with the slower thinner vis a vis reducing orange peel?  

Do you think that it self leveled during the slower cure or is something else afoot?

You get serious orange peel when something isn't right, usually either not enough pressure (the paint won't atomize properly and will look in extreme cases somewhat rough or 'pebbly' and too much pressure can cause this as well), not slowing down enough while spraying to put enough on (more important during the final coats to combat the wavy but glossy orange peel look) , the material isn't thinned enough or a combination there of.   I think that the slower thinner probably helped it level out, but what I also noticed working with this material is that the overspray that lands on places already coated didn't always melt in the way I thought it should.  I don't have access to a booth so everything counts.  I'm probably just being picky, and as I said before, no one else has noticed, but I think it made a difference.  We're going out with Nelson and his car tomorrow so I'll let you know what I think after the weekend, and maybe have a few pics as well... Al   

How much time did you put into that wet sanding? Looks great!!

Spent about three hours messing with it. First I sliced off the runs with a blade. Then I wrapped a wet paint stick with wet 400 grit and ground the drips down close to flat. Then I worked those areas with 800.

Then I wet sanded the whole panel with 800, 2 passes. Cleaned the whole thing with glass cleaner.

Two passes with 1000, two more with 1500 and one more with 2000. Cleaned it between sandings and looked for trouble spots.

Then I compounded with a "rough" sponge pad, 2 passes. Cleaned again with glass cleaner. Then one more with a medium pad. Cleaned.

Once over with a fine pad with polishing compound. Then a buffing wheel to finish.

It's not close to perfect. I'll probably have to re-shoot the drip spot at least.

But it's not terrible.

Ed, you continue to amaze me.

@edsnova posted:

Spent about three hours messing with it. First I sliced off the runs with a blade. Then I wrapped a wet paint stick with wet 400 grit and ground the drips down close to flat. Then I worked those areas with 800.

Then I wet sanded the whole panel with 800, 2 passes. Cleaned the whole thing with glass cleaner.

Two passes with 1000, two more with 1500 and one more with 2000. Cleaned it between sandings and looked for trouble spots.

Then I compounded with a "rough" sponge pad, 2 passes. Cleaned again with glass cleaner. Then one more with a medium pad. Cleaned.

Once over with a fine pad with polishing compound. Then a buffing wheel to finish.

It's not close to perfect. I'll probably have to re-shoot the drip spot at least.

But it's not terrible.

My bodywork teacher told me that color sanding/cut and buff was good inspiration for getting your gun set right the first time.  A**hole.

When I did my class project (Mercedes Hood and Rear hatch) I messed up getting the gun back together right and my first clear coat had some globs in it. He had me just lay on a few extra coats, extra thick, to leave enough material to wet sand it out.

Worked great except the finish product turned out nicer than the OEM finish in the rest of the car.

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I think I'd stop now, Ed.

Before long, this will be too pretty to drive.

You'll have to get a trailer for it and haul it around to car shows.

And beach chairs. You'll need some beach chairs so you can sit in front of it at the car shows.

Really, it's nice enough just the way it is.

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You are probably the only one to notice the imperfections, it's better to let it be than to unintentionally make it worse .