Thunder Ranch build thread

Todd M posted:

 

 

...This is way off topic, but the point is that y'all are helping me tremendously with my coupe build, and if anyone has a question about repairing or improving something on their house, please feel free to ask me...

Not off topic at all, Todd.

Ed (remember him?) is a British car dude. His other car is an MG-TD replica. Which isn't too far removed from that other Jurassic British car - the Morgan.

Which, as it happens, relies heavily on laminated wood forming.

Here's a laminated ash fender fresh off a recent production line.

And here's the 60-year-old form they still use to bend every one. It's not the original from 1920, of course. That dodgy piece of work wore out in the 1950's, after only about 35 years of service.

Most of you guys are better than me at everything. Here's Bridget's dodgy dash board I made a few years ago with some marine plywood and 1/8-inch blanks of mahogany and tiger maple I mail-ordered from Woodcraft. Cut it all up on a table saw and glued it together with some furniture epoxy. 

I still kind of like it.

Plus I equipped a proper British "Gentleman's Emergency Kit" in the glovebox.

That's very crafty looking for a dash and kinda goes with British Plaid..........Bruce

Well, Ed, that is certainly different from my 53 TD dash. Very nice.

Spyder gas tank cover is stripped and (partly) ball-peened for correct texture. 

We used to do that to distress new wood floors (usually Pine or Oak) in reproduction Colonial homes to give them the proper "look", like they had been lived in for a century or so.  Kind of like adding a "Patina" wrap to a fiberglass Speedster.    

I see you might have a future in colonial home remodeling, too.

Want me to drop by and kick it a few times?  Anything to help out a buddy.

No joke, fellas. The original tanks were hammer-formed by hand and left lumpy, like

I think I got this, Lane, thanks.

Meanwhile, elsewhere, progress:

Ed;

That paint looks sooo cool!

Outstanding, Ed!!!

It's really coming together now @edsnova  Looks fantastic!  

Looks good Ed !                                                                                                                        Tommy Martin (your painter) has done about 2/3 rds of my cars including speedsters,  T' Buckets,  a couple of tubbed pick up truck, car trailers and a metal Futon couch frame :~)

edsnova posted:

Dude.

Dude x2

I gave him this pic of Anand's car to work from.

Looks like he's in the ballpark.

How do I contact Tommy Martin?

That is going to be stunning. Wow!

Tommy Martin is retired previously owning a huge body shop business . He previously did insurance work, custom motor homes tour bus's, fleet and custom tractor trailers... and a lot of my projects. Tom now has a shop at his home in in St. Thomas PA  (1 hour south of Carlisle) pm me for his phone number. 

Wow that is really nice and shiny Ed, great stuff.. you won't be able to see the car   Bridget will have to go.. 

Paint makes such a change doesn't it...  

It's gonna be one sporty sports car.

Ed......Your making it really hard for me to choose a color. First I was going to do Red again then I thought Black, then Silver and now I see your Blue and it looks great too !

Your car is gonna look fantastic !.....................Bruce

If I didn’t love my car so much, I would have already  been making transportation arrangements for this Spyder. I love what you have done. Thank you for sharing this build process. If you do go through with selling, someone will get a treasure. 

Alan Merklin posted:

Tommy Martin is retired previously owning a huge body shop business . He previously did insurance work, custom motor homes tour bus's, fleet and custom tractor trailers... and a lot of my projects. Tom now has a shop at his home in in St. Thomas PA  (1 hour south of Carlisle) pm me for his phone number. 

St. Thomas, PA?  Guess I will be looking a bit more local.

Kevin - Bay Area posted:

If I didn’t love my car so much, I would have already  been making transportation arrangements for this Spyder. I love what you have done. Thank you for sharing this build process. If you do go through with selling, someone will get a treasure. 

The car is for sale—or will be when it is sorted. Wish I could afford to keep it.

I love the blue. It looks awesome. It's also NOT silver. Well done. Carry on.

Details.

Nicely done!

What a great choice of color. It would be a head turner if it were painted baby-sh*t yellow like my old DKW, but the blue will be putting neck braces on folks for miles around.

Also:

edsnova posted:

oh my.  the want is VERY strong with this spyder.  I may have to block both you and @arajani; before I do something very stupid.........

[*thinking to myself*]  Does my kid really money set aside for his college education?  I mean he's 4.....I have time.

 @ Kevin - Bay Area   You can drive it around and sell it when you are ready as they hold their value ...

Wow that looks great!

That guy can seriously paint.

Bodywork and rivets-'n-stuff look fantastic, Ed.

Ditto, Ed! Great work.

@Kevin - Bay Area said- [*thinking to myself*]  Does my kid really money set aside for his college education?  I mean he's 4.....I have time.

Lots of time, Kevin- he may even be like my oldest and not go any way, so you were denying yourself for nothing...

Kevin the more you think about the stronger the want get 👍😇

will this one have a Suby?

nice color for sure

My God, Ed.  That is a beautiful car.

Amazing what make-up can do  

@edsnova -- This is amazing. I love the firewall details! You've nailed it, Ed! 

calmotion posted:

Kevin the more you think about the stronger the want get 👍😇

will this one have a Suby?

nice color for sure

Jake Raby-built 1914cc Type 1.

I'll probably Sube the next car I do. 

@arajani that's way too kind coming from someone who knows what these firewalls are supposed to look like. Thank you.

I've worked up a story to tell, though, depending on the context. I might tell someone I got the car in pieces (which is of course true) out of a pole barn in NW Connecticut (also true) and did a lot of aluminum and body work on it (again, very true) and that "when I got it the firewall was bulbed-out & twisted up all kinda impossible stupid ways and it took me dozens of hours to pound it mostly straight."

Obviously a very terrible lie, but in the right ear could be worth telling, just for the reaction. 

Silly me- I forgot to add-

                          ED! IT LOOKS FANTASTIC!!!!

Car is back in the garage. 

Cory came by today and helped me do some stuff to get it ready to put the dang engine in. Cory is a great human being, people. We hung both doors to check gaps and straightness, and I'm liking it fine. 

Then we took off the clam and the hood to facilitate final assembly. The doors will probably come back off too while I work the wiring and then the upholstery....

On a side note: Bridget has a blown head gasket, so currently I have two excellent cars for Carlisle, neither of which is likely to be ready for the show. Oh, the irony!

Wish me luck, boyos!

That paint. Wow. 

Nice gaps. Better show next year!

Really nice Ed ! That's my painter Tommy Martin , well worth the trip to have him do his thing....and you get it back in a couple of weeks.

Forgot to mention: while my head was turned today Cory upgraded the car to paddle shifters.

That boy is all about the resto-mods.

Ed, yeah great paint, great gaps, great paddle shifters, but wha... the Subie blew a head gasket?

The 200,000 mile minimum set-it-and-forget-it modern solution to old-school unreliability just went and blew up?

What's the lesson here? You put an engine - any engine - anywhere near something that even looks like a British car and it inevitably goes all British on you?

Did you torque the head bolts with Whitworth spanners?

WTF?

I think it was the ghost of Lucas electrics that seeped into the head gasket.

Re: Bridget

I drove the car about two miles on Wednesday night to the drug store and noticed the temp gage wasn't coming up. It was laying on 90 as I crossed the mile mark. Usually by then it's well off the peg. 

Dang Smith's dual gauge, I thought. This is the kind with the tube fulla gas and the bulb at one end you stick in the coolant, and the tube inevitably kinks somewhere and leaks the gas out and makes the $200+ gauge be no good. (You know they're good when they leak oil from the capillary tube onto your right knee). 

Anyway I got my nephew's birthday card, got 3/4 home and the needle just got to about 120. That's when the green light came on, indicating the fan was working. That worried me because the fan should not have needed to go on, and also because the light was extra bright, meaning that the Suby temp sensor was reading about 210-220. Which is unpossible in that short a trip on a mild spring evening.

Got home and felt the radiator, which was cold. Bad news.

Probably I screwed up. A few weeks ago it was nice so I rolled her out of the garage, checked the oil, started her up and took my wife to Ritas for gelatis. Nice. No problem.

What I did not do was open all the bleeder screws in the cooling system first. 

If you ask David Stroud about this, he will tell you stories. OK, he'll tell you stories anyway, probably, but this is an important story: Always open the damn bleeder screws before operating a Suby-powered Plastic Clown Car that has been parked for a long time. Always.

So I probably had a bubble in the system. They can and do develop over the long winter. The bubble probably made its way to the worst possible spot, somewhere in the left head. Air there means a hot spot forms, and pretty soon, with the extra expansion, you've got blown head gasket.

From there you just get more bubbles: the combustion gasses blow into the cooling system, displacing more coolant, pushing it into the overflow tank. And then pushing it out of the overflow tank.

Next morning I bled the air out of the system. It needed it. Then I ran the car a minute to see if the gauge would work. I was hoping it wouldn't: hoping the gauge was bad. Or hoping in the alternative that the bubble had been where the gauge bulb was, and now that was fixed and it would work as normal. After about 15 minutes idling it went to about 120 again and then the fan came on. Crap.

Now there was coolant dripping out the front. Checked all the hose connections--all good. Traced it to the top of the overflow tank. 

OK this was bad but it's not conclusive: maybe the thermostat was stuck closed. Hot coolant was expanding out of the top of the engine and trying to make its way to the radiator, but the thermostat wouldn't let any cold coolant in from the bottom like it should, so the rad stayed cool and the overflow tank overflowed.... Not likely, but oh-so-much-better-an-option, car-fix wise. On Friday I pulled it out and tested it on the stove. It works. 

So that leaves head gasket.

Bummer on the MG. The description doesn't exactly sell the Subaru as an awesome, final answer "get it and forget it" powerplant. We pick our poison, I guess.

Stan Galat posted:

Bummer on the MG. The description doesn't exactly sell the Subaru as an awesome, final answer "get it and forget it" powerplant. We pick our poison, I guess.

Every platform has it's issues for sure.  In this case, the thermostat being stuck half way might be the issue also air is a big problem sometimes due to the length of the piping in the speedster especially and if you have multiple rads like I do it adds to the issue.  Subaru head gaskets were redesigned by the factory to handle the hot temp that happens when you stop the engine and then the temperature can climb in the head as the water/antifreeze boils... I use Evans cooling to prevent this.  In any case you could lose fluid do to the expansion and eventually end up with an air lock or bubble that you will chase... Moral of the story is that every spring bleed the system as a prevention... 

Oh yeah, it is not in the sales manual but it is part of the subie poison pill on our location of an engine... 

Advantage, the torque curve is awesome. 

Ed, do you have two evaporation tanks?  

You will note that turbo cars have two tanks to prevent the small loss of fluid that eventually develops air pockets, BTW and N/A have only one.  

My engine guy is installing a second tank on my car this Tuesday to eliminate continual evaporation that occurs due to the design of our cars and our systems eventually giving issues like Ed is living.

Acooled cars have carb work and us Subie guys have coolant bleeding work  

Aircooled cars have carb work  ... valve adjustments, pulled head studs, dropped #3 valves/seat, oil drips. etc.

IaM-Ray posted:

In this case, the thermostat being stuck half way might be the issue also air is a big problem sometimes due to the length of the piping in the speedster especially and if you have multiple rads like I do it adds to the issue.

How many radiators does your car have, and where are they located?

@Todd M Two behind the front lights, and btw I have a full 911 front end.

Thanks Guys ! This is new info for me ! I appreciate that you posted this. Being a Suby owner (not yet driving it) these are need to know things for me. Question : If I leave my sub sit for say 2 weeks to a month, is it necessary to bleed the cooling system ? Are these bleesers part of a sub or something I need to install ? My engine has a little stand-off tank now that Outfront installed (see photo). Is that sufficient ?.......Bruce

Well I am sure once installed and the length of the hosing known your builder should install bleed valves at the high points where the air bubbles usually move to.  This would facilitate the bleeding and I usually do it at the beginning of the season.  A second tank may or may not be necessary if the system is fully sealed. 

I think what is to note here is that every set up needs to be worked through in the custom car field and every new car you get has nuances and maintenance that you have to learn about and fix and then schedule.  There is no panic in the Aircooled world and none also in the Subie just differences in what needs to be done and also the frequency of maintenance.

I always use Subaru coolant conditioner in my 2007 Impreza.  Never had a head gasket problem so far.  My son now drives the car.

https://allwheeldriveauto.com/...right-for-my-subaru/

Ed,  Even if your thermostat tests OK, a replacement is cheap and good insurance.  Someone likely used that engine as a DD before your application and the t-stat has likely opened and closed thousands of times.  If you don't use a Subaru t-stat, make sure that your replacement has a jiggle pin, and that you install the pin at the upright 12:00 position to allow a slight coolant bypass until it opens.

A normal subie does not have the length of plumbing issues of our cars. Just saying.

Subie has special coolant if not mistaken. 

Ed, you could save yourself a lot of grief by just keeping the cooler in the back like Porsche did:

@Sacto Mitch I was expecting a regular cooler or ice chest

David Stroud posted:

Instead of hi-jacking Ed's excellent thread into oblivion, how about some interested party open a new thread and we can contribute dedicated info there ?   Please... ?  Bruce...Todd..you'd be likely suspects to start such a thread. Thanks.

Ed started the conversation regarding the cooling troubles he had with Bridget's head gasket. This seems like the natural place to discuss it between updates on the Spyder build.

Robert M posted:

David Stroud posted:

Instead of hi-jacking Ed's excellent thread into oblivion, how about some interested party open a new thread and we can contribute dedicated info there ?   Please... ?  Bruce...Todd..you'd be likely suspects to start such a thread. Thanks.

Ed started the conversation regarding the cooling troubles he had with Bridget's head gasket. This seems like the natural place to discuss it between updates on the Spyder build.

As you wish, Sir. Sorry for the intrusion.

David Stroud posted:

Robert M posted:

David Stroud posted:

Instead of hi-jacking Ed's excellent thread into oblivion, how about some interested party open a new thread and we can contribute dedicated info there ?   Please... ?  Bruce...Todd..you'd be likely suspects to start such a thread. Thanks.

Ed started the conversation regarding the cooling troubles he had with Bridget's head gasket. This seems like the natural place to discuss it between updates on the Spyder build.

As you wish, Sir. Sorry for the intrusion.

In retrospect I see the error of my ways. At least Todd and Air Cooled Bruce were asking for conversion advice on Ed's excellent build  thread and I thought It might be  prudent and more beneficial to ask for advice on a new, separate thread where the conversion info gained might actually be archived and helpful for others in the future. Please Todd and Bruce, I was not centering you out but just trying to help in a future informative thread. I won't bring up the idea again. 

Jim Kelly posted:

Ed,  Even if your thermostat tests OK, a replacement is cheap and good insurance.  Someone likely used that engine as a DD before your application and the t-stat has likely opened and closed thousands of times.  If you don't use a Subaru t-stat, make sure that your replacement has a jiggle pin, and that you install the pin at the upright 12:00 position to allow a slight coolant bypass until it opens.

Thanks Jim (and all). I replaced the T-stat with a proper OEM unit when I did the conversion in 2014; also the water pump (cast impeller) and then the head gaskets (Fel-Pro) and head bolts. The T-stat now has three seasons and about 3,000 miles on it and is fine. It only fits in the housing one way and, yeah, there's a little hole in it with a pin. 

There's one overflow tank in the car and it's in front.

The system works if I do the bleed procedures. I failed to do the procedures and this is what I get.

I tidied up the shop today. 

Cory was there yesterday and we all know he keeps his garage like a damn operating room. Mine looks more like the back yard in Sandford and Son.

So I put some tools away, threw away a bunch of boxes. Set things up so I could actually reach the Spyder engine which is still bolted to the pallet Carey delivered it to me on two Carlisles ago. 

Pulled the valve covers off the engine to have a look. Very clean and nice in there, and the rockers all seem to be rocking about a half inch when I turn the crankshaft over. Seems right.

Pulled the clutch off to check it. With a claimed 1200 miles total, I figured it would be fine. And so it is.

I  scrubbed the flywheel and pressure plate with a scouring pad, then rinsed with brake clean to remove any gunk. The machinists ridges are still present.

Then I cleaned the threadlock out of the holes, centered the friction disc with the centering tool and torqued the pressure plate back on, 20 ft-lbs or so. 

I'll break out the CB Performance Black Box software this week and see if I can get it on my work laptop. I might install the engine and see if we can get things running first before messing with the disty. 

Haven't done the heim joints to the linkage yet either. But that's not hard to do with the engine in the car....

I once straightened up my former PA shop only to discover a plethora of things I didn't know I owned.

"I once straightened up my former PA shop only to discover a plethora of things I didn't know I owned."

I'm still looking for my plethora.  I know it's in my garage somewhere...

Hey!  Edsnova!!!! You installed the throw out bearing on your carb!!! Just in case you didn't mean to do that, I thought I would give you the heads up..... ;-)  lol!!! 

"I once straightened up my former PA shop only to discover a plethora of things I didn't know I owned."

I'm going to go through that again, soon, when we clean out my late brother's shop.  He built extreme horsepower snowmobile engines for the race crowd in the Northeast and had a nicely set up shop in his house basement to build them.  While he died a few years back, his wife hasn't touched the shop, other than getting rid of the torches and welders because of the big gas bottles on them, and it looks like he just stepped out for coffee. That's going to be a big deal to clean out, especially for the Hardinge lathe and Bridgeport Miller.  Both of those took four to six of us to move them in there.......

Might want to consider talking to an auction company if there is enough in the shop and let then do the humping. I clearly remember what it took to move a 16 ton lathe cross my friends Randy's shop !

edsnova posted:

I tidied up the shop today. 

Cory was there yesterday and we all know he keeps his garage like a damn operating room. Mine looks more like the back yard in Sandford and Son.

So I put some tools away, threw away a bunch of boxes. Set things up so I could actually reach the Spyder engine which is still bolted to the pallet Carey delivered it to me on two Carlisles ago. 

Pulled the valve covers off the engine to have a look. Very clean and nice in there, and the rockers all seem to be rocking about a half inch when I turn the crankshaft over. Seems right.

Pulled the clutch off to check it. With a claimed 1200 miles total, I figured it would be fine. And so it is.

I  scrubbed the flywheel and pressure plate with a scouring pad, then rinsed with brake clean to remove any gunk. The machinists ridges are still present.

Then I cleaned the threadlock out of the holes, centered the friction disc with the centering tool and torqued the pressure plate back on, 20 ft-lbs or so. 

I'll break out the CB Performance Black Box software this week and see if I can get it on my work laptop. I might install the engine and see if we can get things running first before messing with the disty. 

Haven't done the heim joints to the linkage yet either. But that's not hard to do with the engine in the car....

Feeling the excitement for you Ed. The end of this build is getting close and the Spyder is looking pretty nice. When it's all done a walk around video showing all of the "correct" replicated parts would be a real treat.

Bob: IM S6 posted:

"I once straightened up my former PA shop only to discover a plethora of things I didn't know I owned."

I'm still looking for my plethora.  I know it's in my garage somewhere...

Ok, I choked on my breakfast!

@edsnova wrote- " I might install the engine and see if we can get things running first before messing with the disty."

Those are wiser words than you realize, Ed! Trying to change the distributor before having the engine up and running (and in a happy state of tune) is asking for trouble.

Yoda out _{(but back you know I will be- for now a garage and more holes to drill awaits me, yes it does!)}

Safety Jim Buffalo NY. posted:

Hey!  Edsnova!!!! You installed the throw out bearing on your carb!!! Just in case you didn't mean to do that, I thought I would give you the heads up..... ;-)  lol!!! 

THAT's where that went! Thanks, I thought I threw it out.

So with the engine cover off, getting ready to remove the transaxle to mate it to the engine, I pulled off my rear spare tire mount/subframe and found my home brewed shifter linkage under that.

Danny P. advised me like a year ago that the little nubby thing bolted to the crossmember next to the trans was a bad idea, since I had part of the shift linkage attached to the trans and another part attached to the thing the trans is mounted to with rubber (urethane, actually) biscuits, meaning they would not move perfectly together. 

I was gonna try it my way and see how it goes but, looking at it yesterday and realizing no one does it my way, I decided to re-do the left-hand bracket as something attached to the trans itself. 

CAD first...

Getting close now; just got to complete the reinforcement tab and weld it on, then clean and paint it.

After that I can take the wheels off, put the back of the car on a dolly, remove the transaxle and see if I can find the right bolts to attach it to the engine.

From there it's a simple matter of assembling the engine crane, chaining the drive train to it, rolling the car back a few feet and hoisting it into place.

Ain’t CAD wonderful?

aircooled posted:

Cardboard Aided Design=CAD ?

Hah!  I love it!

WOW.

Yup, “Cardboard Aided Design”.   What many of us do when we don’t have access to fancy computers and 3-D printers.  Just get out the cardboard or, if you’re really cool, foam-core (Personally, I am not really cool).

Nice job, Ed.  That looks like it makes more sense and won’t get wonky as the engine/transaxle moves under load.  

Piperato was right.....again!

Looks great, Ed! Needs more holes, though...

Great job, Ed.

Finished the bracket this a.m. and hung it up for paint. It fits perfectly and has the stiffness it needs to do what it's supposed to. 

Can I just say that having a bucket of scrap steel and a little wire feed welder has changed my life immensely for the better? Just a few years ago—like when I was putting the Suby in Bridget—I could not do half of the things I do these days as a matter of routine before breakfast. 

@ALB right: one more hole. I'd left it out because I wasn't yet sure how/where the reinforcement bit was going to fit.

I don't know there, Ed.

Sure looks like a piece of painted foam-core to me.......   

David...Thank you for your comments and feel free to make them as you see fit. As I get further into my new build I'm sure I will have a lot of questions. A question I have right now is this. Since the "highpoint of the cooling system' looks like it will be this aluminum tube with the radiator cap on top on it, that will be  the highest point on my cooling system (radiator included). It seems that this would be the place to attach a coolant recovery system tank with a small hose to that overflow tube just under the filler neck. I understand that there may be some high points along the systems plumbing that may need air bleeds as well and those will need to be addressed at some point. Anyone care to tell me I'm on the right track ?........Bruce

Ed....nice bracket !   CAD is great !  I should drag out all my "CAD" programs and lay them on my bench for a photo.........Wire welders are Wonderfull !!!.........Bruce

aircooled posted:

David...Thank you for your comments and feel free to make them as you see fit. As I get further into my new build I'm sure I will have a lot of questions. A question I have right now is this. Since the "highpoint of the cooling system' looks like it will be this aluminum tube with the radiator cap on top on it, that will be  the highest point on my cooling system (radiator included). It seems that this would be the place to attach a coolant recovery system tank with a small hose to that overflow tube just under the filler neck. I understand that there may be some high points along the systems plumbing that may need air bleeds as well and those will need to be addressed at some point. Anyone care to tell me I'm on the right track ?........Bruce

I am glad you asked, and am also waiting for an answer.

aircooled posted:

David...Thank you for your comments and feel free to make them as you see fit. As I get further into my new build I'm sure I will have a lot of questions. A question I have right now is this. Since the "highpoint of the cooling system' looks like it will be this aluminum tube with the radiator cap on top on it, that will be  the highest point on my cooling system (radiator included). It seems that this would be the place to attach a coolant recovery system tank with a small hose to that overflow tube just under the filler neck. I understand that there may be some high points along the systems plumbing that may need air bleeds as well and those will need to be addressed at some point. Anyone care to tell me I'm on the right track ?........Bruce

Bruce..Amigo....Loud and Clear Now....this is ( we're on ) Ed's thread about his build and we're wasting his space. If you want info ( from me ) about a homebuilt liquid cooling system then YOU start another dedicated thread. Please.  I'll work hard to help you. Comprende ?  Last call

@David Stroud IM Roadster D , @aircooled - Please feel free to put it on the 'Newbie with many questions' thread.  I can never get enough water cooled replica advice.

Thanks David and I will, comprende total.  It's a little soon yet but I certainly will. If Todd is further ahead maybe he can start it.   I sure like this forum and the people in it ! .....Bruce

Dave and I will help. +1 on the new thread advice, as this is a searchable site and having a dedicated DIY water-cooled thread is better for anyone trying to dig up information down the lane.

Wow ! ....That was weird !  I clicked the like button on my own comment ! Not enough coffee yet ?.........Bruce

Transaxle is out. It's heavier than I remember. After wrestling that bugger onto my office stool I took a break and attached the leather clam gasket.