Thunder Ranch build thread

@Gordon Nichols posted:

 

"Nope, what y'all are lookin' at is a 8 FOOT sub-floor space, an' that's almost totally filled up with old cables" (as he gives Mr. Pentagon a cold look).  "When they reconfigure any-thang they just cut off the connector ends of the cables, leave 'em lyin' there and drag new cables through on top for the new stuff.  Someday, their Devil's payment's gonna come due and they'll have to pay someone to remove all those cables and some guys're gonna sell all-a them cables for the copper value and they gonna make a killin".

So there it is........   Your Gum-mint, hard at work.

Similar to an episode early on in my career. I was an installation supervisor at a company that did 90% of its work for the RBOCs (regional Bell operating companies). New Jersey bell hired us to mine out abandoned power cable from overhead cable racks (think cable tray, but everything is laced instead of ty-wrapped) in a block-long multi-story, decades-old central office in Newark. I placed six guys on that job for 9 months on T&E (time & expenses). They mined out I don't recall how many tractor-trailer loads full of scrap insulated stranded copper cable, most of it 750 MCM (about an inch in diameter with the jacket removed) from 80+ years of abandoning old cable in place. In some spots, the abandoned cable was piled over 3' thick.  It's a wonder the 5/8" anchors supporting the threaded rod which the cable racks hung from didn't pull out of the structure.  

You know, IIRC 750 MCM 1" diameter cable weighs about 3/4's pound per foot which, at today's copper scrap pricing (I just looked it up) would be about $2.00 PER FOOT!

A trailer container is 48 feet long so a single length of cable would bring $96 bucks at scrap prices.  Multiply that by 100 cables across the floor for $960 per layer and 100 layers high and the copper scrap price alone, per trailer is around $96,000  

Holy Moly!

Most companies (especially RBOCs) usually depreciate stuff over 12-ish years so they've already written it all off, so they pay a contractor to remove it after 20-30 years and only recently have been getting a cut of the scrap prices - They used to just give it all to the removal contractor.

But enough of how the phone company (and many others) spend the monthly payment you send to them.

Let's get back to Ed's Spyder sorting.

Sorry, Ed!

Thank you, Gordon. 

A few weeks ago when I did the airport photo run my neighbor followed on his bike and told me he thought the car was "crabbing." The front and rear wheels are within about 1/16 inch of the same distance apart (a smidge longer on the driver's side) so it should be pretty straight, I told him. Front track is a little wider than the back, so maybe he was seeing that? 

The car "felt" straight.

Still. I decided to center the car on the lift and run strings to measure off of to re-check toe and camber. My camber measurements were as I'd left them. A little more on the passenger than driver's rear to account for the driver's weight. 

I did find that my track width, as measured from the outsides of the tires, was virtually identical front to back. So my neighbor was right.

Rear toe-in measured 3/8", almost all of it on the driver's side. The rear end of the car was constantly making a wide right turn. 

That meant setting the driver's rear wheel backward a little—with the salutatory effect of centering it better in the wheel well. I set it back around 3/16" and the new measure was 1/8 toe-in with a very slight LEFT turn. As making these adjustments requires loosening the spring plate bolts and then rocking the car/turning the tire until their relative positions diverge—an operation difficult to achieve with micrometer precision—I decided to leave well enough alone.

This also makes the left wheel base of the car about 1/4 inch longer than the right. 

?

Front toe measured zero+, or maybe just 1/16" in. I assume that's because I raised the front a little—toe seems to go out when the wheels go down and in when they go up. So we'll see if this causes any issues at high speeds in crosswinds and adjust later as needed. So far, probably not.

Took it for a 10-mile spin: very nice. The steering wheel is now maybe one spline off center, but the car feels livelier without being squirrely. Tracks and stops true. Spun it up to 5500 in second* to test the valve cover gaskets and such, and checked around the engine for oil leaks when I got home. Looks like no drips above the underpan now. And I have a new sump gasket and hardware to fix the one stud leaking under there.

Hated to do it, but...front license plate bracket.

This attaches via the last two (or probably any two) of the top grille screws to put the plate low and on the left. I drilled for lightness and painted it body color to keep it inconspicuous as possible, though still best to delete it I think.

This car is for sale, if anyone is interested.

--

*A word on the engine: it is loud, but very pleasant to hear. Quite "authentic" right now in its low RPM softness and hesitancy. Even in its present state of tune it feels like it's rarin' to go above 4000, and very eager still at 5500. I feel like once I get a proper spark map dialed in and then tweak the air-fuel ratios it should be even better.

Good luck on the sale, Ed. Whoever gets this car is getting a masterpiece!

It is finished, congrats Ed. Hope the sale comes quickly. 

Yeah, not going to list it until the final tuning is done but open to offers.

Turns out I can't program the Black Box ignition module without a laptop running Windows 7 or previous...so I've got my bro-in-law setting up an old box to send me.

Hope to get that sorted before the weather goes away. And after that it's onto the Webers, which seem to work pretty well after Carey & co. went through them. But the wideband will tell the tale.

I figure it'll be spring before I can list. Not in a big hurry.

Short update: test-drive yesterday including some highway felt very good. No more tire rubbing in the fenders on sharp, fast turns; stable at speed, just a subtle hint of cowl shake at 60 mph. Revved it up to 6k in second gear getting on the beltway and the engine felt and sounded very willing to do more.

On the way home I pulled into the landfill and drove onto the scale, which read 1720 with about 2/3-3/4 of a tank of gas. Weighed myself and my briefcase when I got home: 171.

So, 1549 pounds wet/empty. Seems about right.

Idled down to Mariner Park to try a couple pics, but it was pretty busy down there & a trio of students were trying to rehearse their lines for a Shakespeare play so I didn't stay long.

Checked the engine: no oil drips apparent. Everything in order.

I've met you.  For you and your briefcase to weigh 171, it must be one helluva heavy briefcase!

@edsnova posted:

...a trio of students were trying to rehearse their lines for a Shakespeare play so I didn't stay long...

'Tis the east, and Ed's Spyder is the sun.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

I've met you.  For you and your briefcase to weigh 171, it must be one helluva heavy briefcase!

Uh, yeah Gordon. The briefcase has gained several pounds over the past year or two.

About 19 I would imagine.

So I'm guessing all your extra "doo-dads" added 50-100 car pounds? Not bad considering all the stuff.

Mine weighs about 1500. I think Carey says 1400 plus is normal for Becks.

Seems reasonable, Danny.

@edsnova posted:

Weighed myself and my briefcase when I got home: 171.

I weighed a buck-sixty-five on my wedding day. My good friend bet me a steak dinner there'd be 10 more on my first anniversary.

I bought steak.

I'm still a little salty that he didn't tell me there'd be 10 lbs more EVERY anniversary...

@Stan Galat posted:

I weighed a buck-sixty-five on my wedding day. My good friend bet me a steak dinner there'd be 10 more on my first anniversary.

I bought steak.

I'm still a little salty that he didn't tell me there'd be 10 lbs more EVERY anniversary...

I would have had to buy him 7 steak dinners

@WNGD posted:

I would have had to buy him 7 steak dinners

7?!?

I scoff and your "7". I crossed 255 recently. That's 90lbs of rippling romance more than the boy-groom of Turkey-Town weighed in at 35 years ago.

Drag your knuckles on the ground more. It'll remove your knuckle hairs. That may make you lighter LOL!

Truth be told, I'm a little over my mid-1990s fighting weight as well...

We're into the picture-taking phase of this endeavor.

@Stan Galat posted:

7?!?

I scoff and your "7". I crossed 255 recently. That's 90lbs of rippling romance more than the boy-groom of Turkey-Town weighed in at 35 years ago.

Good Grief, Charley Brown!  If you're tipping the Toledo @ 255, you're lucky that original wager wasn't an Over/Under Bet. If it had been, you'd probably have bought him the whole friggin' cow by now!

Beautiful photos, Ed. It is truly a stunning example. I'm not going to ask you what kind of price you're hoping to get for it, but I would suggest you go for more than $0.25 per hour that you've got in it. This car is the epitome of a work of love and attention to detail. Just wow!

What Michael says.

That is one amazing accomplishment, Ed.

Amazing car, Ed!

As for "...90lbs of rippling romance," that started my day off with a belly laugh.

That's one fine looking Spyder Ed !!!  A real head turner in the Blue too !!

All my best accolades are in order for you, followed by a deep genuflect with hat in hand and a show of leg !!...........Bruce

From one Journalist to another (through me), a genuine "Tip 'O the Hatlo Hat" from Jimmy Hatlo, Illustrator for the Hearst Syndicate newspapers and one who brightened everyone's day for many years, just as you have done with your Blog and posts here.  Now we can all watch Merklin the Magician build his Dune Buggy.....  But it won't be the same.

Well Done, Ed!

Gordon......Jimmy Hatlo !! Holy Crap !! Haven't heard that name for a while ! I absolutely loved his strip called "Hatlo's Inferno" !  It should have been in Mad Magazine as a regular feature as well.  Thanks for the nostalgic trip !.............Bruce

Spherical bearings installed on the throttle linkage.

Lookin’ good, Ed!

Listen up, young ones. Ed's attention to detail is what we mean when we say "Welcome to the madness." Plus, why he can expect to get a premium price on this one.

RS-60 Mark and I should have patented that heim-joint thing back in 2006.

Looks good, Ed.

So all week I've been playing with these carbs. Finally (I think!) got them dialed in today.

To recap: last Saturday a.m. I headed out to maybe show the car at an unofficial gathering nearby. I was a block from home when I aborted the mission: popping, blurby backfires, rough going told me I should once again clean some idle jets.

So I decided to install the Jet Doctors, and did that, and pulled out all the idles and mains and doused them with Gumout and blew a little air through some orifices on the carbs and splashed carb cleaner and/or gasoline on my face, as one does.

Got it back together and went to reset the mixture screws and it wouldn't set.

Noticed just a tiny bit of slop in the hex bar on the driver's side so i figured what-the-hey and cut the mount towers off the air cleaner bases, drilled and tapped and socked in a couple 5/16 heim joints, and epoxied some artfully cut down bolts in the hex bar ends. Crossed that off my punch list and returned to trying to set the carbs right.

Long story even longer: they wouldn't set. Three times I started over, warmed up the car, detached the linkage, set the mixture screws a half turn out from gently seated, set the idle stops a half turn in, checked the pull with the snail and got them even, and then went after the mixture screws for best idle.

Oh, it idled just fine. But underway I'd get those same symptoms, more or less: A bit of a stumble on takeoff. Popping on light acceleration. Popping on decel. Blurgy transition to the mains.

I mean...drivable. Almost not bad. But I know what it's supposed to act like, and this wern't it.

I pulled out the carb cleaner again...

Turns out that left side carb, with the linkage attached, was not quite setting back down on the idle stops. Oh, it got mighty close! So close I didn't see it—three times.

It was less than a paper's width off the stop. I loosened the lock nuts on the down rod and turned the rod about a half turn. Tightened up. Rechecked with the snail. Went around the mixture screws again. Took a ride and finally we're back to normal.

Oh, it still needs attention. Nothing like Danny's yet.

But now we'll be working from a slop-free (slop-proof!) linkage kit as we try to get this beast the best it can be.

EFI in this car would be a stretch on its authenticity, but you can see why I like it. Nice sleuthing, Ed!

A half-turn out? That's not normal for Weber idle mixture volume screws.

Mine are a little over a turn out. Normal is between 1 and 1.5 turns out. More than 1.5 turns out and your idle jets are too small.

Your idle jets are too big if you have lean peak idle speed at 1/2 turn out.

What size are they, Ed?

Good catch, Danny. My error. I actually started with the mixture screws one full turn out, and after adjustment I think they are out something close to 1--1.5 turn all around. Turning them in a quarter turn made it lose rpms, so I turned them out a little....

Half turn in from where they touched was where I put the idle speed screws to start.

The idle jets all say 50, but I don't know if Jake reamed them when he built the engine. From what I read on the innerwebs it seems likely they're a little bigger than 50.

Pump jets say 50. I don't know what the mains say.

The .50(means 50% bypass) pump jets are normal in a VW. You won't have to change them.

A .50 idle jet is probably right for a 1915cc. You'll know for sure once you run the wideband on it.

If I end up visiting your area I can give it a tweak, but have no idea if that will be soon or springtime.

Ed...The only thing I can add to your punch list is this. The two aluminum bars that slide onto the hex bar may have their holes drilled at different lengths. This changes the throttle positions on the carbs in relation to each other all thru their rotation except at idle. The best way to check this is to remove the hex bar and slide the two aluminum bars onto the hex bar, then look to see if the holes on the opposite ends of the aluminum bars are in perfect alignment. (mine were off by 1 mm)   It can get worse. Tighten the aluminum bars onto the hex bar with the set screws and again check for perfect alignment in the opposite holes.  What I found is that the alignment changed every time I moved and reset them.  This is why I went to the  Vintage Speed Throttle linkage and never looked back.  It also looks more "period relative" !...Bruce

Bruce, I'm cornfused:  Are you talking about these arms?

And if so, wouldn't any differences in the angle of the arms in relation to the hex bar be compensated for by the adjustable downlinks?

Danny and I adjust the idle stops with the linkage disconnected at one end, then conect the linkage and adjust the downlinks at 2500 - 3000 rpm to tune them in which makes them even.  

Are you talking about something different?

I've had a pair of arms where the larger hex hole and the small hole for the little linkage heim joint were drilled on different centers between the two pieces. I had to fill the small hole on one arm with JB weld and re-drill it 1/8" closer.

I believe that's what Bruce is talking about.

It is. EVERY length and angle matter. They must be equal left and right at all points in order for the hexbar to work right with the no-slop heim joints.

Ahhh....    OK, that makes sense.  I just couldn't visualize what he wrote.

Now I have one more thing I have to go out and measure.......    

Thanks!