Timing Marks

Started to time the car this weekend after installing new Pertronix 2 and found that I only have one timing mark on my pulley. I assume it is TDC. Well I kind of guessed where 8-10 degrees might be and static timed it there. Could not use the static light as it is always on with a pertronix. Can anyone out there take a few minutes and measure along the pulley to the marks I need and send the dimensions. I do have a timing light so I can do more accurate job if I can find the marks.

The amazing thing is how much better the car runs with just eye-balling the timing. Unless I got lucky and got it right it will even be better. I did follow pertronix recommendation and increased the plug gap by .005 since I also have the ignitor coil.

thanks for the help

Troy

Try using the other wire from the coil. One side will be on (12V supply) and the other 'should' come on when it fires. It may be on dimly and get bright when it fires. ...OR... Pull the coil wire from the dist and place it near a convient ground, put the crank timing mark where you want it and rotate the dist. The coil wire will spark when it fires.
HTH Bill

Bill,
You missed my point. I need to know where the timing marks should be on the pulley as there is only one there and TDC is not the correct timing mark.

Troy

OOOPS! Though you were havin trouble w/ the stick light.

If I did the math right....

Assuming you have a 6.75" dia pulley, 10deg before should be ~.58 " to the right of the TDC mark

thanks much that is about where I have it. but I'll double check tonite

T

The single notch on your crank pulley is NOT TDC. It's cut at 8.5 degrees BTDC If you're pulley has two marks, they would be 8.5 & 10 degrees BTDC. Your car is probably running better because you have it advanced too far, but an overheating problem may occur in the near future if ytou're total advance is higher than 28 degrees.
I'm assuming you've got a OEM VW pulley and not some aftermarket part.

No aftermarket pulley. Just an old VW pulley with a single small notch on the inside rim of the pulley. When I initially timed it to the notch the car ran like crap. Then retimed it with the notch about 1/2 inch to the left of the case split and it runs great. Ran it on the freeway last weekend for about 10 miles at between 75 and 90 mph and temp only got to around 185 as measured by my dipstick candy thermometer. Maybe I just got lucky. I really don't want to replace the pulley just get timing marks but will if I have to.
T

Troy,
A circle is a circle. Degrees are degrees no matter how large the circle.
If you don't have a degree wheel, print this (or get a protractor), cut it out so that it's a circle. Hold it up against your pulley, aligning the TDC marks...

Greg B

Or buy a degree'd pulley like Greg's - they are under $20. They look nice and give you clear full readings on degrees of advance.

That's a nice Santana unit too....Got a Black Magic Woman.....Uh, Troy, what type of spark plugs did you end up using finally?

Now that I have a clear pic of the wheel I don't need to replace mine. Just resized the pic to 6.5" and I'm set. Thanks very much for the pic. I know aesthetically, the degreed wheel is much better. But...... will the car run better??? NOPE I don't think so and I have lots better use for the $20 plus the $20 for the removal tool. Anyway thanks for the pic.
Ricardo, I ended up with NGK B6HS as that was the closest the parts house had to the Bosch plugs that were in there. I don't know if they are right yet because I don't think I'm timed right yet. Sounds like a catch 22 to me. Anyway the journey is the reward, right?????? Wow I hope so.

Troy

I gave up and ordered a graduated pulley and pulley removal tool. $50 for both. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Troy

Troy:

Just out of curiosity, are you running a centrifugal advance distributor??

gn

With all this talk about the graduated pulleys I forgot to say something. Maybe it's just me but I find it difficult to read the markings of the pulley in the Speedster as compared to other VW's because of the nature of how the body surrounds and completely encloses the engine. Compared to Speedsters, Karmann Ghias (I mean Type I's not III's) are a dream to service because the engine is so accessible. Any of you find the pulley difficult to read on the Speedster too?

What? As you get a bit older you find those teeny-tiny numbers dificult to read at such a ridiculous angle??? Not to mention having to get a "short" timing light just so you can fit that puppy down in there, especially on one of those brilliant, sunny days in San Juan.


WhatsamattaU?

Gord; I wish all you guys were here with your cars. All this week it's been clear & sunny but yet not hot at all ('70's during the day, high '60's on clear nights, some places inland as low as 46 during the night). I wish it were like that all year! I love it because I can use the Speedster to run my errands during the day with the top down. It's just great when you're self employed and have one of these little cars as your ride. All that freedom and wind in your hair definitely makes you feel special and as someone else said here it reminds you what you work so hard for.

Gordon,
Yes cent. advance. A brand new 009 distributor.

troy

Ah, HA!

OK, then.....the stock crankshaft pulley isn't especially cool for setting the advance on your centrifugal advance distributor, and you would have had to either buy a degree'd pulley (which you've already done) or figure out where 28 - 30 degrees of full advance is on your existing pulley.

The proper way to set the advance on a centrifugal advance, 009 distributor is to start the engine, watch out for spinning and moving bits, run the engine RPM up to 3,000 and hold it there, THEN set the total advance at between 28 and 30 degrees BTDC (I usually "go for the Gold" and set it at 30). You should find that it'll now idle somewhere between 650 and 900 rpm and should sound pretty smooth, if your carbs are set up right. You should also ignore whatever the advance is at idle (come to think of it, I've never checked my 009 at idle, so there). Tighten up your distributor clamp and you're done.

Gordon
One of the "SPeedstah Guys" from Beaufort

Gordon: I tried that but it seemed to ping.

BD

Could be caused by higher compression ratio on your particular engine or cheap gas (or both!) - the fix is to back off the advance a little at a time (2 degree increments) until the pinging stops and then leave it there. Bear in mind that if you're running a higher compression engine and are running fuel lower than 90 octane, it's probably going to ping with "normal" advance settings.

gn

Boy, this thread realy brings back some memories from the late 60's. Back then, the standard process was to keep advancing the timing until you got some engine "knock" under hard acceleration, then back it off a degree or two. Of course we had access to pump gas that was near 100 octane. Some guys even went to the local airports and bought aviation fuel that was about 112 octane if i remember right (you had to know somebody, cause airplanes don't pay for road taxes, which made the fuel pretty cheap, even back then). I understand that air cooled engines are much more susceptable to "heat stroke" (knock) than water cooled counterparts, but I'm thinking the same principle still applies. Consider the differences of hand built engines, wide selection of cams, home port and polish jobs, your choice of valve sizes, piston top designs, even exhaust systems affecting cyllider filling. How can anyone say what someone elses optimum timing can be? The grades of gasoline are probably more consistent today, and the Pertronix is certainly a huge improvement over the old points type distributors. But the old school rules keep ringing in my ear, "go rich - add advance". Just my two cents.

It would also be really interesting to see a graph of spark advance versus RPM and power on one of these newfangled, computer-controlled, electronic fuel injection engines to see what the timing advance is under various conditions. Especially when the computer program invokes it's "anti-knock" subroutines and retards the spark in 2 - 4 degree increments until the kock sensor is satisfied.

I know some of the more sophisticated systems can keep all that info on a laptop, but can anyone dump it to a file and post it somewhere?? Might be interesting to see what kind of timing advance is employed by the computer under different power loads.

gn

P.S.; I used to set timing by the "advance it til it knocks and then back off 2 degrees" method. In fact, I had a 1971 Toyota with an 18RC engine which had a small, calibrated, advance adjuster on the side of the distributor so you could easily advance or retard the spark to suit the gas you had to work with (or the guy you were racing against). It was also the only 18RC I ever saw with four (yes 4) Mikuni carbs hung on it - from the factory!!

gn

Just took a look at the pulley on the car and found no holes. This being the case what do I use to restrict movement of the pulley when loosening the bolt for pulley replacement?

Try putting the car in gear and putting the parking brake on real tight. The pulley will move some 'till it loads up against the trans then it will come loose.
Bill

Gordon,
I had the pleasure of owning two Corvettes, a '62 and a '67. Both had Delco distributors with a small window in the cap. You could insert a small allen wrench and "dial in" the dwell desired before you set the timing. This feature reduced the tuneup time dramatically from the feeler gauge method. This feature disappeared by the time I traded for a '70.

I no longer run points anywhere, but when I did (even on VW's) I never used a feeler gauge to set the gap. All I did was attach a Dwell Meter to the distributor, pull off the coil wire and crank the engine over while using a screw driver on the points adjuster tab to "dial it in" on the Dwell meter, the same as your 'Vette (only the Vette was easier with that little allen wrench adjuster). I even made up a remote starter switch to crank the engine over while working next to the engine so I could set the points.

BTW: we had a bunch of GMC School Buses between 1960 and 1980 (all 350's or 400's) and I remember that some of them had that little sliding window on the side of the Disti and the allen adjuster for the point dwell, so it wasn't just a 'Vette thing.

gn