Tips to reduce the chance of a engine fire.

Great Advice, Thanks

Alan,

This is a great list.  Hope it could be pinned under tech. bulletins by someone?

I always wondered about this photo (not mine).  I mean so close to all that water but not a drop for the poor Speedster.

Does anybody know the story behind the pic that Greg posted? That thing really did burn to the ground...Al

If it was an original Speedster and the VIN was intact, they could have sold it as is, on eBay, for $85,000.

The lady who bought my IM had a serious engine fire.  When the car caught fire she quickly got out of the car and moved to safety and the fire truck arrived fairly quickly.  Unfortunately, she left the ignition key in the 'on' position and the car had an electric fuel pump, located under the gas tank.

Even though the engine had died the electric fuel pump still pumped gas to the carbs and the fire department had a hard time putting the fire out.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.  This is even worse to consider than Pepe's latest.  I have one of those plastic fuel filters -- in the engine bay, along with an electric fuel pump.  Will go shopping for a metal filter straight away.  And I do have a kill switch in the cockpit -- I wonder if I'd have the presence of mind to twist it Off under duress??

I was planning to add a fuel filter on the other side of the firewall, maybe like the one before the electric fuel pump, but that one is metal and you can't see if it's getting clogged. Has anyone seen a filter that had a visible and replaceable element so you could see just how bad the fuel is?

You could use something like this.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Trans+Dapt/969/9247/10002/-1

James

OK, please don't blast me, this isn't a smart a-- question.

VW built millions of Beetles, and lord knows how many other vehicles. Most (probably all?) had plastic filters, in the engine compartment. I don't recall seeing countless articles on VWs burning to the ground.

So ... why is having the stock fuel filter, in the stock location such a problem?

Is the real problem lack of owner maintenance; keeping filters and fuel lines beyond their useful life?

Jim nailed it!

But taking extra precautions never hurts...

I don't believe any VW T1 (at least til 1974) came with a fuel filter other than the brass filter sock on the gas intake in the fuel tank.  The 50 cent plastic add on filters are "our" attempt to better engineer their car. Gas line designed for ethanol gas is a requirement along with having correct size clamps and camps/guides to keep gas lines from vibrating freely.  

I'm an old Corvette guy, this is the filter I used.

Thanks Wolfgang.

I didn't know that about the old V-Dubs. But I did some searching/reading after I read your post and sure 'nuf. Like this comment from Rob and Dave's Air Cooled VW Pages: 

Please note: If you have a filter between the fuel pump and the carburetor, GET RID OF IT! It is unnecessary and a serious safety hazard. If the hose were to come loose from the filter, you would have gasoline everywhere, very near all of the sparking action that's going on inside the distributor.

And to my friend Al...No buddy. I wasn't doubting you. Was just curious.

I remember seeing quite a few Beetles that caught on fire. At the time a lot of the blame was because the screws around the fuel pump would loosen and fuel would leak.

Thanks, James.  I have one of those clear glass filters in the engine compartment that I got at a marine supply store. Maybe I'll move it to the other side of the firewall and clean up the engine compartment a bit more.

Many moons ago when I would attend air cooled VW shows, I was the one man gas filter police...you would be amazed that over half of the installed plastic filters were perched directly above the dizzy cap!

Stay far far away from those glass filters.  Not only are they prone to leaking (ask me how I know), but a fairly light tap on the glass will break it.  Go with metal filter and change them out when you feel like you need to.  Muuuuuch safer.

James,

I had one of these on a Bayliner (outboard) boat up in IL and the vibration on the boat had the two ends come loose and it leaked a bit of fuel on transam of the boat.

So, much care has to be taken to make sure the two ends holding the center glass are "goo-n-tite" and of course caution not to break the center glass area.

Tom L.

Keep in mind the fuel hoses also get old and brittle.  I changed out my engine a couple of years ago and was amazed at how brittle the rubber fuel lines were.  Now check them occasionally to make sure they are still good.  

I'd suggest using hardline fuel lines from the tank to the engine mounting it on the firewall somewhere behind the fan shroud, then using rubber line for the filter with appropriate sized clamps and running rubber fuel lines from the filter along one side of the wheel well along the rear of the car to the carb T feed and the fuel pump.

Basically the only line even remotely in contact with the engine would be the fuel pump feed line, everything else would be directly out of a source of heat.

Also having a direct 'kill' switch that cuts out ignition, starter, battery, electric fuel pump if so equipped, and the alternator mounted within easy reach in the cockpit. The one in my Cobra is an 'aircraft' type with a big red cover with a zig-zag electrical bolt on it, when it is lifted up it provides access to the switch, switch the lever up and you have ignition, etc., flip the red lever down and it 'kills' everything, there is also a secondary kill switch mounted at the rear of the car just under the body but easily accessible with a SCCA master switch decal above it for easy identification, per racing rules, that I only use on the track, if the driver is incapacitated in a 'prang' the track officials can still 'kill' the car. The cockpit switch is the primary and kills both switches, the rear switch is secondary and will do the same thing in an emergency situation.

Also having a Halon type extinguisher system should really be considered for the engine bay, if not the fuel tank. I have an older mechanically operated FIA/SFI approved Spa AFFF system in the Cobra with two nozzles on each side of the engine mounted on the front wheel wells aimed directly at the engine and two nozzles mounted in the trunk for the 32 gallon fuel cell operated by a different pull handle than the engine bay. The 10lb. 5.1" diameter tank is mounted above the top of the fuel cell on the trunk wall frame cross beam. Thank God I've never had to use it...I tested it once when the engine was out of the car, made a mess but was easy to clean up.

I'm planning to change out my entire fuel delivery system on the Speedster soon, especially after reading about Stan's car and other fire problems in these cars,  installing a fire suppression system, adding a 'kill' switch, since Stan said he could hear his starter turning over even with his keys in his pocket...yikes... and see if I can find a type of fire arrestor tub for the carb air cleaners....I have one for the '55 Chevy and for the F-100 4-bbls, but don't know if anyone makes them for the VW type Webers, Solexes, or Delartos...the arrestors keep a carb fire contained in a 'tub' using a fire retardant foam liner. 

To go back to what someone said about the stock setup being safer, the stock VW air filter was in a full-surround shell that would have contained a filter element fire for a while.

I know Halon was banned for computer centers years ago (Gordon and Lane surely remember the big Halon tanks) - because it deplete oxygen and put out the fire (and killed off the operators too).  Seems ideal now though for our sealed engine space.  Even with the normal 5# canister (they make a 2.5# too) it would probably work very well.  In reading it looks like you can shut of flow and re-engage canister (should heat restart fire).  

The alternative seems to be DuPont FE36 - which you could aim at the driver if desired.  Wonder if one corrodes aluminum/magnesium more than the other?  Although Halon is apparently no longer produced there is a large supply due to draining systems in all the main frame computer rooms.

Anyone remember seeing that "hot" red CMC for sale in TX where it looked like the fire started under the dash - maybe in fuse panel or over heated headlight switch? It destroyed dash cowl and front hood.  

In talking to Tom (Pepe...) he said he couldn't get engine lid open due to heat so couldn't direct the extinguishers at source of fire - only the visible flames.

-

Yeah, I remember the big tanks - as well as the admonitions to "GET THE HELL OUT IF THE ALARM SOUNDS!!!!!!"

Greg,

That is correct.  It was a matter of seconds for flames to be way past the grill surface.  Obviously, without a means to point foam at "base" of fire source both my tank and the cop right behind me did no good at all.

I wonder if many of us contact Rocky with the auto. deploy units, if the commercial gain would motivate them to put those 5 lb. units together again to fit our Speedsters?

I too had a speedster motor fire in '04. This was a high end build with a $11k crate motor to boot. I heard the pop looked in the mirror and the Hibachi was in full swing....amazing how fast the fire started to spread. 

Lucky for me it was just a few seconds later when a Maryland Highway Dept truck saw the black smoke and rolled up. Damage was minimal... the underside of the deck lid a few wires and the air filter which ignited first. Upon inspection it turned out to be a bent push rod.

Is there another Stan? This wasn't me, although it sounds scary.

I did melt an aux venturi in one of my Dellortos during a backfire a few years back. Providentially, I believe the engine sucked the fire down the intake and snuffed it out, because the first I learned of it was when I pulled off the air-filter some time later.

And that sums it up. I had a mild carb fire during a backfire incident (these things spit a bit when the car is cold) and had no idea. I think most of the cars that burn likely backfire and catch the fuel dribbling out of the accelerator pump or the like on fire, then catch the floatbowl on fire, and then the car.

Henry Reisner of Intermeccanica has addressed this on all his new Type 1 builds by installing "turbo hats" and intake snouts, as did Danny Pip. In addition to greatly reducing the chance of a backfire carb fire, a setup like this also reduced intake noise.

It's on my list to do as time permits.

Yup, intake noise is the reason I put the turbo hats on. Top down no problem, the noise doesn't bother you. Top up, DEAFENING intake noise, to the tune of about 107 to 110 dB A weighted on my meter! Those CB turbo intake hats and 2" cone air filters really help to tame this, plus it puts the filter a lot further away from the carb top and fuel/fire source. Also, it really helped with the idle jet problem, as I haven't had a single plugged jet since installing the hats.

Is the 2" alloy tube with the red AN fittings a carb balance tube or is that part of a fire suppression system?

Neither.  

That's his crankcase breather system.

Gordon nailed it, it's my homemade breather system, reminiscent of original 550. That's not AN fittings, it is merely heatshrink to prevent the German hose from fraying on the ends.