Titles and Emissions

I was wondering how newly titled Speedsters do in states where emissions testing is mandatory.

Here in Maryland we have emissions testing and my fear is that if I get any Speedster titled as anything other than a 1970s era VW I will have to get it tested like any newer car.

I can't see a 1970s VW engine coming close to passing the tests. Anyone here have experience with this?

I was looking at a Speedster in Virgina that is on eBay and it is titled as 2003 SPCNS "special construction". He says his is required to pass Virignia emissions but has not taken it since the cars in now for sale.

I was thinking if the frame and engine still carried the original VW vin one could get it re-titled through one of the classic car title places to it's original 1970s status. Broadway title though says they do no do kit cars. Probably has to do with people wanting the title to say 1957 Speedster or 1966 Cobra. I just want the title to reflect what it really is, in this case a 1964 VW that hapens to carry a fibre body.

Thanks,
Tony Miller

Tony
There are a few Maryland speedster owners and I assume that they will reply and be able to guide you acordingly

Each state is of course different- But in Northern VA (see not even the same for the entire state!):

Gasoline-powered passenger or property carrying vehicles with a model year that is less than 25 model years old before January 1 of the current calendar year and with a manufacturer's designated gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less which are registered in the following localities:
Counties of: Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, and Stafford
Cities of: Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park

In VA they register to the year of the donor chassis --- engine is NOT tied to chassis serial number. Was the other one you looked at on a tubular chassis vice a VW? Suspect it was.

In MD believe the cut off for emissions testing is 1977 - prior years don't need to be inspected.
www.mva.state.md.us/MVAProg/VEIP/VEIPInfo.htm

Wolfgang,
The car I looked at is on ebay now. It is a regular pan style VW chassis and a 1964 engine. Owner does not know if chassis number is still intact (or where to find it for that matter) but was told both engine and frame were from the same car.
This one is titled as special construction and as a 2003 model. He said he had to do battle with the Va DMV to get that designation and I am now wishing he hadn't. A 1964 title woudl make matters easy here in Maryland.
I already know I would need to have emissions testing here on that car just as he has to do there. My question I guess is would any 1964 motor (rebuilt to 1774ci) pass current tests. I can't imagine they would. I doubt I could have it retitled either and the only number he is sure of is the engine number dating it to 1964.
The car is close to home and so far a god price but emissions tsting could prove to be an expensive nightmare here. If you fail you are required to do repairs and that gets very pricey each 2 years.
BTW, item number on eBay is 2488999025
Best,
Tony

Anthony, first of all, the chassis no. can be found in front of the back seat. Look under the carpet and you should see an access cover there through which the shift rod coupling is accessed.

Second, rebuilding your 1964 case (1200 cc) to convert it to a 1776 cc is not practical (and I don't even know if it can be done, someone here enlighten me).

Also, Anthony, I checked the item and it says that the car has a 1776 cc dual carb engine; I thought you said it has an original 1964 engine.

The VIN is stamped just to RT of where the inspection plate is at the rear of the shift control rod --- would be under the rear seat of a bug on the actual tunnel. Before '65 the numbers could be a tad weird --- 65 models would start with 115xxxxxx.
mfg chassis # engine#
July 1964 6502399 8796622
Aug. 1964 115 000 001 8796623
Dec. 1964 115 510 150 9339890
July 1965 115 999 000 9800000

Engine would be found stamped into crankcase half under the generator stand). Check www.lennysvw.com/type1chassis.htm

Strange he claimes he drove it all the way from CA --- with no plates, CA pink slip or registration. There are no plates or inspection sticker on it now either. This could be a real HOT car! To be honest - you probably don't want a 64 engine --- early 70's would be better choice. A 64 (60-65) had like 36 HP -- 66's were a whopping 1300cc.

Sounds like it would be a real head ache to register and drive legally.

I went through HELL with a CMC built from a 1973 VW. It was built and registered in the state of New York. Arizona DMV said NO WAY to the 1973 VW. They argued between themselves for several hour and finally gave me a new AZ number and called it a 1973 SPV. At that point, I was just glad to drive out with an AZ Plate. I could have cared less what they wanted to call it. Lots of luck. I hear California is hell. Many have two engines, a regular one and a stock smog one. Every two years they put the smog one in, drive down have it tested, get their smog sticker, go home and change back to the 1915 cc with dual Webers. I guess that's the price to pay, for living in California.
Paul McGuffin

Paul, not so difficult in california. I have a 1963 pan, the car is registered by that 1963 number. That old no smog is required. I am running a 1883 stroker motor dual weber idf's, cal dmv doesn't care about the engine of a car that old. The speedster is registered as a "1963 volkswagen/ porsche", and under current law, do not have to be concerned about smog tests.

Wolfgang,
The cars does have plates now, actually expired in Aug 2004. They are mounted on the car if you look at the photo from the rear.

Serial number starts with CAxxxxx so I suppose California gave it a new construction number too.

The original engine has supposedly been rebuilt to 1776cc. Serial number on engine is 8056394.

I don't think registration will be my headeache, just evey 2 years when it fails emissions. I will check with the local "experts" tomorrow and post their answer here.

Best,
Tony

The original engine for 1964 should have been a 1200cc. The 1300cc engine ws introduced in 1966.
Rebuilding to 1776cc seems a bit of a stretch doesen't it?

Tony

Tony,
I live in Bethesda. My speedster is titled as a 73 VW...exactly the way Kirk at VS titled it originally in California.

Fred

Fred, Kirk uses the original donor vehicle's title so the title just stays the same; a new title doesn't need to be issued.

Ricardo, do you drive with California plates currently? When I bought my Speedster from another Illinois resident, it had never been re-titled nor registered in Illinois. The California registration had in fact expired, but that's another issue. I applied for title and registration after the purchase since that is the proper thing to do, in my estimation. It was, however, titled as a 1968 VW based upon the information I supplied. After I moved to Tennessee, I got a notice forwarded from Illinois to report for emission testing. Ha ha, I thought, none currently required in my county in Tennessee.
John H

So far my info search is not looking good.

If titled as a 2003 "new construction" it needs emissions testing here in Maryland. If it fails you must do repairs to get it to pass. After a total of $800 in repairs they will write you a waiver, good for 2 years until the next test is due then you start over.

If it was titled as a 1963 VW there is no problem, BUT since it is already titled in Va, Broadway title will not touch it and provide a 1964 title even though the original vin numbers are there in addition to the "new construction" vin. Also with "Historic" plates in Maryland there is no vehicle inspection required but there is a limit to where and when it can be driven.

I am fairely convinced the current owner may have gone through the same issues in Va. Unless I can get a replacement title it would be a bad choice for Maryland.

Allstste is checking the insurance issues or 2003 registration vs. 1964 as well as garage kept vs. on the street.

Good thoings to think about BEFORE buying anything.

Best,
Tony Miller

Anthony,

In Maryland the VIN from the chassis is use to register the car. If the car is 27 years old or older no emissions test is required. If you register the car as an historic vehicle no state inspection is required. So make sure that any car that you purchase VW, Porsche, Special Construction what ever, is titled prior to 1977 and you will not have a problem.

Karl

John, Kirk just sent me the Ca. title (for a '68 VW Bug) and when the car got here the local DMV issued me a new title and kept the old one in their files. Then they issued me a license plate number. What I meant in my previous post is that Kirk doesn't need to get a new title in Ca. after he gets done with the build. The title remains the same.

Ricardo, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Ricardo,
When I received my car from VS it had a California title and plates. I had to re-title to Maryland and get Maryland plates. The MD DMV simply took the info off of the CA title.

Fred

Thanks guys. At this point I am thinking just wait for an early titled car. too much uncertianty in trying to get a newer one retitled back to it's origins.
I did fing one title company that said no problem as long as there is an early vin number already on the frame. They will issue on to that and I could then bypass my problems. With no real promise this will work I think I will simply pass. Don't need a car I can drive here or afford to get through emissions.

Best,
Tony

The car I was looking at on eBay closed today and someone got a good deal at only $5700. I drove it yesterday and it handled and ran well. It did need a few thing to pass inspection but for another $1k or so the windshield and speedo could be replaced. Had it not beed for the 2003 title I would have gladly owned it.


Tony