Titling/ Registration Question MA

I am thinking about pulling the trigger on an IM. It is currently titled as a 1958 porsche. I am wondering if I will need to do the same bcause the titel says its a 1958 Porsche? If I do this do I run the risk of having to pay tax on what the DMV "values" the car at as a Porsche. Is it legal to register a replica as a Porsche?
Has anyone had any experience with this. Can it be switched back to an IM replica when I register it even though it has a Porsche title?
I am i Massachusetts. Any info would be very much appreciated.
Thank you.

There are a few guys that live in Mass. on here. I am not sure, but I think Mass. has adopted the SEMA model of replica/street rod legislation for registration. This allows you to register it as a 2010 Speedster 1958. Current year and assignment of a 17 digit vin, then what it is, then the year of replication for emissions and safety. Check out your state's DMV website.

http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2009/07/massachusetts-governor-vetoes-sema-model-street-rodcustom-vehicle-bill

SEMA bill made it to committee, but was vetod by Govenor.

In Massachusetts, they have a serious data base, you can't get away with anything these days without committing fraud.

-If your VIN doesn't come up as one from a legit 356 Porsche, you'll be in trouble.
-If it comes up as a VW and you have "Porsche" on your title, you'll be in trouble.
-If you attempt fraud with regards to titling and registering that replica, you'll be in trouble.
-If you try to register and title the car as a 356 Porsche (speedster) you'll have to pay the sales tax on the NADA estimated value, no exceptions.
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1958&m=1144&d=5158&c=7&vi=84730&da=1
The insurance will kill you and if it's stolen or you get in an accident, you're now nailed for committing fraud. What's five or six percent of $150,000?
I had to pay sales tax on my shit-box Pre-A valued at $45,000.
-Massachusetts ONLY uses the NADA valuation.
-Massachusetts will probably make you register and title the car as a replica which will force you to undergo yearly inspections that demand all of the criteria for a modern car. You'll never pass.
-You would be best off trying to get a title for a Beetle and using that number on the chassis and hope that the inspection station will look the other way when it comes to the body and your insurance company will never look at the car at all.


With VERY few exceptions, Massachusetts is a horror show when it comes to titling your car if you're completely honest about it.

Sorry,

T

Chris:

I'm over in Grafton (and in the phone book) and may be able to help, and I think Al Gallo went through this a year or so ago down on the Cape. there are a few others, some with IM's (Bill Pickering in Dudley) in the Worc. county area who might shed some insight, too.

I wrote up an article, with help from the folks at Factory Five Racing in Wareham, for Henry at IM about how to register your IM in Massachusetts. I'll retrieve it and send it over via email. It's about a year old now, written before the Guv vetoed the Sema bill, but it worked before Sema for all of the Cobra guys and a few speedsters. I think I posted it here on the SOC, but just did a quick search and didn't find it (but I have it on Speedstershop, too).

Don't despair, we'll help get you registered.

Gordon Nichols

Gordon,

If you find a link to your article or have a copy of it in your computer, could you forward it on to me or post it once again here?

I could use some help with another project; I'd like some options and would also like to be prepared with hard info if any problems come up at the Registry or State Inspection Station.

Thanks !

T

I just found your article, it is REALLY that easy? You just register and title your car as what it most closely resembles and everything is all set and done? None of the troubles and turmoil that folks in CA have to go through? Seems that the SEMA legislation isn't even necessary. How about MA sales tax and insurance, any info on that? Pay tax on what the build costs were or what it most closely resembles? How about cars, like dune buggies and rail buggies and those GT kit cars that don't resemble any production model, any additional info on that as well? I'm most interested in that sort of thing, how to get a custom chassis/custom body vehicle on the road.

Cool ! !

Maybe I'm reading the info the MA vehicle registration site incorrectly, but it appears They base the tax on the original list price, not the current market value of the car and apply a percentage.

For a 1959 Porsche 356A 2 Door Convertible D the original list price would be around $3,581 X 10% = $350 X .025 = $8.95

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1959&m=1144&d=5158&vi=84738&da=1


An excise at the rate of $25 per one thousand dollars of valuation (effective 1/1/81) is levied on each motor vehicle. Information on the value of a motor vehicle is accessed electronically through a data bank complete with valuation figures. Different sources provide the valuation figures depending upon whether the motor vehicle is an automobile, a truck, a motorcycle, or a trailer. For example, automobile valuations are derived from figures published in the National Automobile Dealers Association Official Used Car Guide (NADA), to which the Registry has electronic access.

Figures are the manufacturers

After doing a bit more research, I've learned that MA has a sales tax and an excise tax. If you buy a vehicle from a Massachusetts dealer, you'll pay a 6.25% sales tax based on the purchase price, regardless of market value, if you buy from a non-dealer, you'll pay 6.25% of the purchase price or NADA trade-in value whichever is higher.

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/regs/

Chris,
My car is a pan based VS with a '65 VW vehicle ID#. Ma. sales tax was based on the sale price of the car. The reg. and title read, year: 1955, make: replica, model: Porsche, type: conv. I made an advance trip to the DMV to make sure I had ALL the paperwork I needed before the car was delivered. I actually found someone there who wanted to help me get the car on the road. She made a phone call to Boston and ran the ID# to educate herself on the value issues. When I got the car she even went so far as to dig through the available plates and find one that started with 55. Annual inspection is safety only and the guy only wants to check lights horn etc. I think he is affraid to touch the car and assumes that I wouldn't bring the car into the bay if it wasn't tip top. I know of a guy who had to jump through hoops to get his new Beck Spyder on the road. The last time I talked to him he was sweating out wheather he had to pass an emissions test or not. I will check with him and see how it came out. I think the advance trip to the DMV to test the waters and the competence level of your local public servants is not a bad idea. Maybe I was lucky...I hope you are too. Please keep us posted . Al

And if you get blown off by one DMV, don't hesitate to give it a try at another DMV, preferably one in a smaller town. These are, after all, government employees!

Thanks for all of the feedback here. My concern is that the car currently has a real Porsche Title. It is not a PAN based car so no VW VIN. I am re-reading the emails that Gordon and Dave Dowling sent to see if I can more comfortable with the process. Thanks again for all the help.

"They base the tax on the original list price, not the current market value of the car and apply a percentage."

If ONLY that were true.

In Massachusetts, the data base is huge and precise and ALL registries follow the same rules and regs. It doesn't work to try a different registry when you run into a problem at one of them.

They use the middle (of the three) current valuations when charging sales tax. The original purchase price isn't considered at all.

Al, how long ago did you register your ride? I've run into this sales tax problem only in the past two/three years and it REALLY caught me by surprise. The new data base is SO precise, that when registering my 1964 Fiat, the registry issued my title and changed my registration form to one for a 1965 fiat, because that was the year appropriate for the VIN on the car.

T

Excise tax and sales tax are two totally different creatures in Mass.

Excise tax (which is paid to your local town or city) is calculated on a sliding depreciation rate based on the original sales price.

Sales tax (paid to the State at time of registry or title) is based on a valuation method (usually NADA) guideline approach. It does not take into consideration condition...for the good or for the worse.

this sounds like the trouble with registering a speedster in louisiana. what about trying to register a car in louisiana that had the wrong VIN number in texas. talk about a pain. i have been trying for 5 months now.

Chris, if it has a legit title, that's probably what you need to use to bring it into MA. The 58 year steers you clear of current smog reg's.

I last went through this exercise in 2008 converting a VA title to MA and while I reveived a clear MA (VW) title and regisration, the local inspection station gave me a hard time and entered it into the system as a brand new 2008 kit car!!

It took some time to clear that up, but the registry office was actually pretty helpfull getting my old VW and fiberglass re-body back on the road.

Attaching VW VIN #'s to an IM is probably way wrong without a VW pan under it, but no worse than labeling it as a 58 Porsche.

Gordo, where can I find that paper of yours?

Thanks

Boston Bob E

Here you go, Bob-

http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=895&highlight=registration&sid=01795e0e96eec2d90c102c3b1fa57f4c

Bob:

Email sent.

gn

Oooopppsss ! !

Sorry Bob, forgot that it was a sign-in thing . . . the thread just reverted to the name and password page.