toluene, anyone using it on a regular basis for octane boost

did a search on octane booster and found interesting post on toluene.
can it be used on a regular basis without damaging engine if the correct amount is added to get desired octane.

Bob, this has been around for years. At one time, it was economical and did add some octane but, now that toluene is very expensive, it probably isn't worth the expense. It's probably less expensive to find a gas station that sells 100 no lead.

When the below articel was written in 1997, toluene cost about 2.50 per gallon. The last time I priced toluene, it was hovering around 7.00 per gallon

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

Larry J. is right...I used some on trip early this year....It works, but bumping the timing back a couple of degrees probably have allowed me to run cheaper Middle grade gasoline.....

ouch, just caleed local aoto paint dealer, toulene is $17 gallon. im going to retard my timing a skoosh.

larry, found a place in sacto that sells racing fuel 110, calculating
a fill of 14 gallons of 91 and 1 gallon of racing fuel gives a around 93+ octane, it is currently 8.95 gallon. premium here is 4.83 so 8.95 is not too bad compared to toluene.

go by your local airport and fill-up

vince, called the 2 local flyins. they cannot put avgas into anything but an airplane, HOWEVER, they are 24 hrs using a credit card and after working hours anything goes, so says the owners.

100 low lead from the airport does a couple of things, it introduces lead back into the atmosphere, (not good for breathing) and second, the formulation of aviation fuel is quite different than automobile fuel. It has a high content of anti freeze to keep the fuel from freezing at altitude and it's specific gravity is less that automobile fuel and, it's designed for low the RPM's that are produced by an airplane engine. Overall, it's not good to run in your car. Look around and do a google search for filling stations that offer 100 no lead. Overall it's cheaper than aviation fuel and will work better.
Now, some info on octane. If your engine doesn't need high octane and use it, you're wasting money. It won't run better on fuel with a higher octane rating than is needed by your engine. In other words, if your daily driver was designed for 87 octane and you use 89 or 91 than you're throwing money away.

sounded like a good idea...

Larry,

On my 1776cc with dual kadrons and standard dist do you recommend 91 octane or high test or regular unleaded?

Should I try reg and listen for pinging or just stay with high test? The PO used 91 octane.

Thanks
Dave

Dave -

FWIW - When I still had the 1776 in my VS w/Daul Kadrons, I ran regular 87 Oct with no problem. I bumped that 1776 to 1835 & same carb set-up, and still use 87 Oct no problem. I'm just a cruiser and don't speed around and can maintain 70-75 mph on the hwy all day (like up to Monterey/Carmel) with no problems (no ping, or backfire or whatever).

Just to add to that, I have a 2,110cc but I didn't go nuts with the compression ration when I built it. I normally run 89 because, psychologically, it's in the middle of the range on the pumps. I've had a few occasions when all that was available was 87 grade, and it seemed to act OK on that, too.

What makes an engine require higher octane fuel is usually the compression ration (often, anything higher than 8 to 1 ratio), the ignition timing (generally, anything higher than 28 degrees advance) and a small myriad of other things like the cam spec, the plugs you're using and so forth.

Easy way to find out what you can use: Run your gas tank down to under 1/4, then put in a couple of gallons of 89 and drive it around. If it sounds OK (no pinging and so forth), then run that down to under 1/4 tank and put in a couple of gallons of 87 and drive it around. If it pings, then fill up with 89 and stick with it. If it doesn't ping on 87, then stick with THAT instead.

Dave,

Gordon's assessment and recommendation is correct.

I'm sure your compression ratio is low and if so, adding premium fuel is just a waste of money

Thanks guys, will try the lower octane. It does seem like a waste and my compression ratio is average not boosted.

Dave

Oh hell Dave, just pull the timing back to zero, drive to Tijuana and fill 'er up with PEMEX 81 octane - the official fuel of Mexico. I hear it's still only about $2.50 a gallon down there. Probably the 79 octane is even cheaper.

I was in a convoy of pickup trucks driving from Houston, TX, to Tegucigalpa, Honduras back in the late 60's. Drove through Texas no problem and crossed into Mexico at Brownsville, TX, with a full tank of gas. Absolutely could not believe the difference with our first tank of PEMEX. Power dropped by 80%(!!!!!), pinging was unbelievable, truck really couldn't get out of it's own way, and I had a slide-in camper on the back, making it even worse.

It stayed that way the entire distance through Mexico until we got to Guatemala and got some decent Texaco and finally got the power back.

What a trip.....

I do remember a terrific steak dinner in Oaxaca, at some hotel built into a mountain/cliff, way above the city. Stunning view at night....

Gordon it wasn't steak.........

Ahh Pemex, grew up here about 25 miles from TJ and have had many surf trips down into baja over the years with many tanks of pemex. When you get a tank of that crap in your car you can really tell (smell too) Even to this day I can tell by the exhaust smell which cars are on Mex Pemex. In the AM on the freeway over half the cars are workers from TJ. Thank god for recuirce and cabin filters.

I think it is hysterical that people are now worrying about the difference between 20mpg and 30mpg another thread here a guy is considering changing his engine to a smaller cc.

I could care less about the cost difference between the octanes I just don't want to blow up my type 1 with low octane and thought we had to use the high test. Well got 4 gals of low test today and so far so good.

I remember a memorable dinner in Culcan or cool yer can after driving across the Sonora desert.

Cheers
Dave

Toluene may not damage the engine but ANY breathing of it or absorption from the skin, over time will greatly increase ones risk of liver cancer.

Oh, GREAT!

Now I gotta worry about THAT, too....

8>(

Gordo - I'd be MORE concerned about that 'steak' you had in Mexico!!

Some of the best steak I've ever had was in Mexico, I still remember it. Mazatlan, a locals beach front restaurant, the steaks were cooked on a large grille and were marinated in Hot Sauce (clear type)washed down with Pacifica on draft which was nothing like the Pacifica bottles sold here now. This was quite a while ago like 30+ years now.

on my previous post of 4 months ago I was trying some low test gas. Big mistake for me. The dieseling after I turned off the engine was real bad. I went back to hi test and the problem ended. So I just pay a little more, also the mileage is around 28-30 mpg in the 3000 miles Ive run put on her so far.

Dave

You guys are spoilt rotten! We are paying US$ 0.91 for a liter of 95 octane unleaded (hi octane due to high altitude 5500ft above sea level) Our fuel bills are a significant portion of our monthly spend!

Hi Greg,

if my conversion is correct 1 US gallon = 3.7854 liters x .91 per liter = $3.44 per gallon. That's about the same cost as the US for now. But I admit up to about a year or so ago our gas was way less than that and we were spoiled. That's why when you drive around most US cities you would still be amazed at the size of the average car/truck/SUV they are huge and most people average under 15 mpg. I work in construction and most of the guys have large macho trucks and even they are downsizing, and on the freeway I have noticed that people are slowing down a little more. Id guess it is to conserve fuel.

Cheers
Dave

Not only is toluene cancerous, it is the basis for the "mad as a hatter" thing which just may fit some Speedie owners. It used to be used in making and shaping hats in England and the fumes drove people, "mad as a hatter". Now it is just graphic arts people sniffing too much in their markers.

Fred Adler
San Diego

Hey Bob,

Thunderhill has pumps for 107 octane fuel, all you need is a credit card. The CSRG, Classic Sports Racing Group will be at the track November 1 and 2. I'm going on Saturday, we can caravan.

In fact I'm going to post it on the event string.

Just an FYI regarding "mad as a hatter" which has precisely nothing to do with anything....

Few people who use the phrase today realise that there

Toluene is used as a binder for gold and silver spray paints, the most popular "huffers" in the paint-sniffing community. Toluene is the reason spray paints are now caged in most stores!

Have fun!!