The fuel injection systems are expensive, and I have never heard anyone say they work. What I hear are stories of pissed off endless tinkering. Not too attractive.
But that does not stop me from dreaming. Has anyone heard of these guys or this system?
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Keep Dreaming 
Low budget? ouch on price but suspect Stan has more than that in his FI. If you don't want performance out of it, the old Porsche 914 FI was economical and reliable.
Before you send any money to Lowbugget (for anything) look them up in the feedback forum on the Samba. And being a center mount system, air cleaner height (it may hit the engine lid) could be a concern.
Well, Wolgang makes a good point. Thanks.
Any experiences with the 914 F1?
Looking for reliability , less Porsche perfume , and a tad more power for my 1835 engine...maybe. (Don't need kickass. I have other cars for that...)
Not practical to retrofit the 914 system to a T1 --- now if you were swapping in a T4 with it already installed it would be economical. But it is a 45 year old system! I had a '72 914 with it. I made mods to engine (bigger bore P&C) and went to dual Webers. They never ran right and always had a flat spot. I suspect because I didn't change the FI cam to a carb cam - no internet back then. About all you can do to tune the old 914 system was to go to larger fuel injectors. Not like modern ECUs where you can tune with a PC connected.
Seems it would be cheaper to swap in a modern FI Subbie!
Yep. Considering it Wolfgang. But the subie seems to be rife with problems too. Particularity torque - on the cvs, trans mounting, trans gears, ...
The subie appears to open a fresh 'can of worms'. I have been considering it with a 2.5 dohc. But I wonder if a 2.2 sohc would be the better choice for me. Again not chasing 'kick ass'. But reliability, even power band, etc..
Al is being kind. I don't have EFI, but I've dealt with AJ Sims (Low Bugget). Back away from the keyboard before it's too late.
Call Mario Vellota @ thedubshop.net
You're welcome in advance.
Thanks after - Stan. :-)
MotoCarlo posted:Thanks after - Stan. :-)
I had posted the incorrect contact information, it's now corrected.
MotoCarlo posted:Yep. Considering it Wolfgang. But the subie seems to be rife with problems too. Particularity torque - on the cvs, trans mounting, trans gears, ...
The subie appears to open a fresh 'can of worms'. I have been considering it with a 2.5 dohc. But I wonder if a 2.2 sohc would be the better choice for me. Again not chasing 'kick ass'. But reliability, even power band, etc..
2.5L is a better power mix than a 2.2L ask D Stroud who upgraded.
Fresh can of worms.... funny, in reality there is a new learning curve and a list of things to do and check with every platform whether it is Porsche or TypeI or Type IV ...
With GOOD VW parts becoming more scarce and hence more expensive there is a natural movement to other platforms and when looking at the 3 engines side by side Subies are the closest being a boxer engine to sit in the same plate. Heck a 3.0L 6 cyl is 2inch bigger than the 4 cyl and weights like 50-60 lbs more for a true 200+ hp. I won't talk about turbos either today.
It is also true that you need to become familiar with the new platforms issues before you jump in ....
Then you need to make a list of pros and cons for each platform.
In my judgement book, a subie torque band and lack of carbs or FI, drive by wire, availability of mechanics, parts at pretty much any shop, etc etc brings a whole lot of extras to the plate in terms of reliability, low cost of maintenance and parts availability going forward.
You still need to have a check list of things to monitor and listen for in your maintenance routine which may or may not be different that the old platform.
One of them is the fact that Subies have had issues with oil consumption, and in the past they had head gaskets issues as well.
In conclusion, all platforms have issues, and a learning curve, some platforms have declining reliable parts and certainly rising part costs and finally other factors may affect your decision in choosing.
Your mileage may vary.
1. The pictured FI system is a Holley Sniper, made to throw on your small block chevy. I'm sure it could be made to work on a Bug but it seems a far stretch. Farther than the $1700 (!!?) admission.
2. There are people who try, and somewhat succeed, in building a true "low budget" efi system using the Megasquirt (or similar) controller, off-the-shelf fuel pump and junkyard injectors and sensors. The things to remember now are: a. it's not magic, and b. at this late date there are more useful FI parts in junkyards than carby-type stuff. Look for injectors from engines with similarly-sized cylinders to the ones you're planning on. Throttle bodies from similarly-sized engines over-all (Like the Subie 4s!). For that classic look, you can even take clapped-out Weber carbs and turn them into viable throttle bodies. Start here if you want to join that particular brand of madness.
3. EJ22 Subies are easier to work with and more robust than the 4-cam 2.5. They are less likely to have head gasket issues, do not tend to use oil, and have a much simpler timing belt. The early ones are even non-interference, which is an signal feature for the noobie assembler. 140 hp out the box ain't too shabby, and the torque curve is all torque and no curve. You're strong AF right from 1600-6000, and more than that if the rev limiter is taken out. The only trick these days is finding one with less than 200,000 old lesbian miles on it, as the last ones rolled off the assembly line two decades ago.
4. Stroud has a "FrankenMotor" 2.5: that's all the advantages of the larger engine with almost all the advantages (except non-interference) of the simpler valve train and gasket sealing. 170 hp unless cammed, in which case about 190. But he has no idea what he has, because he rigged the throttle cable so loose he ain't get more than about a third of what's there. Wait till that old boy fixes that minor issue!
Thanks Ed. Been hearing bad things about the Holley bolt on efi. Seems nothing works as advertised. Holly told me it would not work on a VW aircooled, but my local rod friends who tried it on there bigger watercooled engines , sing a song of nothing but problems. I investigated it last year, when it first came out. So maybe now the bugs are worked out ?
In my case , all roads continue to point to the ej 2.5. It is all pendant on my transmission.
EFI is coming to ACVW, but the devil (as they say) is always in the details.
The problem is that the expandable nature of the engine(s) means that the same "Type 1" platform might be a 1600 DP with stock heads, all the way up to a Pauter 3L monster. Additionally, all the drag-race guys are rushing headlong into forced induction, which is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.
I think that's why most off-the-shelf kits fall short. The guys or companies putting them together understand this, and leave the tuning up to the buyer. It's another symptom of the perpetual misunderstanding of the market-- almost every shop thinks that anybody willing to spend $10K on an engine wants to drag-race it, or use it like a street-rod. There is no shortage of people who'd like a nice, reliable, 130-150 hp NA type 1 with EFI and crank-fired ignition. They'd like to jump into the car and go-- across state lines or time-zones, without angst. There's a real market for this, but nobody is seeing it.
Mario Vellota is as close as you are going to get. He puts together tailored kits, depending on the application. Smaller motors get a Mexican EFI set-up, controlled by MS. Larger engines get dual throttle-bodies, and the turbos get... whatever turbos need (it's not my thing). He's making a lot of his own stuff now-- he's got a cam position sensor in addition to the crank so he can really tailor the tables the way they need to be.
I'd love to see a collaborative effort from somebody to take the best of everything out there, and bundle it all into 2 or 3 packages-- the biggest T1 engine that could support the Mexican stuff (probably 120 hp?), a nice 140-160 hp 2110-2276, and a 180 hp 2.5-ish L Type 4.
Alas, I'm not seeing it come to pass, as everybody keeps chasing one-off drag-race motors. The closest you're going to come would be to give Mario a call, and bounce what you're thinking off of him. Then figure on sending him the entire car to redo. He's in Seattle, so there's that.
That's where EFI is right now. It's a custom deal, unfortunately.
