Torsion bar leaves question.

Question: Do you have adjusters on both top and bottom tubes, or none?

IMHO, you'll need a new grub screw.

Remove shocks and anti-sway bar if you have one. Let the suspension hang so there is no twist tension on the trailing arms. Let tension off of torsion adjusters if you have them. Remove brakes, backing plates, and finally spindles.

Then remove only one trailing arm.

When I pull the leaves, I leave the other trailing arm attached to the leaves. This helps keep them square to each other quite nicely.

When I re-install, I put a ty-rap on the end of the leaves, about an inch back from the end. Once you get the end of the leaves started in the center bushing, the ty-rap will slide along.

Some guys use safety wire or mechanic's wire, but I like ty-raps.

@DannyP — thanks, Danny.

Yes — I have adjusters on both top and bottom.  And, yes, I’ll need to install a new grub screw as the impact of the railroad tracks popped the screw out of its hole and it’s gone.  The hole in the bottom bar where it was screwed in has a few stripped threads from the grub bolt’s ejection.  So, I’m retapping the hole and in doing so, I need some room for the tap to pass through, requiring the temporary removal of leaves.  

After I sent this question this morning, I began removing the driver’s side lower control arm.  After it was off, I just decided the remove the passenger’s, too. The first one took me a couple of hours; the second one twenty minutes.  Maybe.  😉

I’m now wrestling with the leaves, trying to get them out.  I feel confident I’ll win, though — might just take me while.  

Regarding the tie wrap — do you just leave it inside the torsion bar?  

Yes, John, I understand why you're pulling the leaves out.

Yup. If you always remove/install from the same side, the ty-rap will come out with the leaves. It will just be slid halfway down the leaves. Even if the ty-rap breaks and stays in there, it really won't hurt anything.

Thank you Danny.  And yes, I was being a bit demonstrative in my reply to you, as I’m a bit confused how you’re able to pull the leaves while leaving the “other trailing arm” attached to the leaves.  However, in my defense, the heat index at the moment here in Boca Raton is 105, so I might not be thinking straight in this stifling garage of mine! 😝

I managed to slip out lower arm without removing the brakes from the spindle.

John sorry for your trouble. It was my experience that the front torsion leaves will not come out until you clock them (90 degrees?) so that the internal grub screw shows its face in the slot where the broken adjustment grub screw was. Same allen key.

It depends on what kind of adjuster was welded to the tube, there are several types.

@edsnova posted:

John sorry for your trouble. It was my experience that the front torsion leaves will not come out until you clock them (90 degrees?) so that the internal grub screw shows its face in the slot where the broken adjustment grub screw was. Same allen key.

Ed, thank you for the tip!  I didn't see that in my initial research on the project, so I went back to my manual and some YouTube videos and saw that I missed that.  So that's the thing that's keeping me from removing them!  :-p

Oh, and my adjusters look just like yours, Ed.  Like my 550, your Spyder was a Thunder Ranch, so perhaps that's why.

@DannyP --  thanks again for your input, Sir.  I noticed that I was calling the trailing arms, "control arms."  Sorry about that.  I'm still learning, but I'm thrilled that I'm deep into areas of a car that I've never been prior.  I'm having fun, and y'all continue to be a great help.   Oh, and I'm going to assume that -- back to my initial question -- that there's no way to pull out the leaves and then re-insert them without removing both trailing arms.  I'm guessing it would be a bear to get the leaves to blindly thread into the still-mounted trailing arm's tube.

Only thing making me nervous now is getting the tap into the threads of the torsion bar adjuster properly.  The first couple of threads in the adjuster are rather stripped, and I'm worried about getting the cutting going right at 90 degrees.

If you can't re-thread it it's not the end. You can always buy a new ball-joint beam adjuster. Cut the old beam center out and weld a new one in.(Or have a professional do it. DO NOT let someone with meager skills do it, the welds need to penetrate well here, lots of force on this piece.)

Yeah, that may not be what you want to hear, but it's definitely repairable. The good thing is the beam is well-supported in a Spyder as it is welded in, so torsion tube alignment shouldn't change.

I would chamfer both the beam and the adjuster, then fill in the V.

Well, it’s been a great learning experience for me, as I took off the lower trailing arms, took out the leaves, and then retapped the threads for the set screw in the beam adjuster.   After waiting on parts and a free weekend, it’s all back together and I reinstalled the set screw about an hour ago (using some blue Loctite on the threads).  

I tightened the adjusting set screw to lift the car a bit, and went to lower the car on the floor jack to see how high the front end is.  Before I could get the jack under the car, I heard a small snap, and I found the set screw on the floor — it snapped in two, leaving half in the torsion adjuster.  See attached pics.  

I’m about to YouTube how to get the screw out, and I have another set screw.

But, any advice as what I did wrong with the set screw?  It seems the beam adjuster inside the torsion bar didn’t spin, causing the set screw to snap.  

Yikes. I'm so very sorry, man.

So, could this have happened because I reinstalled the trailing arms or leaf springs incorrectly?  

@Wulfrik (John) posted:

So, could this have happened because I reinstalled the trailing arms or leaf springs incorrectly?  

I don't think so.  Probably metal fatigue.  I once broke a head bolt on a Ford 4.9L straight six just running them up with an air ratchet.  I couldn't believe it, but the head just snapped off.  I lifted the head up and just unscrewed the remainder.

That is going to be a pain to fix, especially with the loc-tite.  I think I would center punch the bolt as accurately as possible, and then drill a 1/4" hole.  Keep stepping up the drill size until you can get a good sized screw extractor in there.  Good luck!

@LI-Rick posted:

I don't think so.  Probably metal fatigue.  I once broke a head bolt on a Ford 4.9L straight six just running them up with an air ratchet.  I couldn't believe it, but the head just snapped off.  I lifted the head up and just unscrewed the remainder.

That is going to be a pain to fix, especially with the loc-tite.  I think I would center punch the bolt as accurately as possible, and then drill a 1/4" hole.  Keep stepping up the drill size until you can get a good sized screw extractor in there.  Good luck!

Rick, the screw is brand new, but it coulda just been a cheap one.  I just got back from Loews with a new bolt extracting set.  Hoping the Loctite isn’t all the way set yet!  

I was concerned that I somehow messed up the way the leaves are inserted into the trailing arms.  

@Wulfrik (John) posted:

Rick, the screw is brand new, but it coulda just been a cheap one.  I just got back from Loews with a new bolt extracting set.  Hoping the Loctite isn’t all the way set yet!  

I was concerned that I somehow messed up the way the leaves are inserted into the trailing arms.  

Likely “Made in China.”  Poor metallurgy and quality control.

To get that snapped set screw out, you will need to first get all pressure off of the torsion bars - Both of them - So that the screw is floating somewhere in the range it has up and down in that slot.  You should be able to rotate the trailing arms to position the screw in the middle.  If it is under any pressure it won’t easily let you back it out.  Get the pressure off and it should spin out.  I hope you used the blue locktite, not the red HD stuff, which is probably cured by now.  If you used the red Locktite and it won’t let an extractor spin it out, try heating it with a MAPP torch.   Propane might work, too, but it’s not as hot.

For the new set screw, there is a LOT of shear force right where it broke off, so see if you can get a grade 8 version.

Thanks, Gordon for the tip on getting the pressure off.  And yes, I used the blue, not red.  😉

At the moment I’m trying to drill a hole in the broken set screw, and I’ve broken a couple of drill bits trying to get a pilot hole in.  I managed a small dimple for the 1/4 bit to hold onto, but the 1/4 bit (that came with my new kit) can’t make a good purchase.   It’s just spinning without biting.   So, that damn set screw might’ve been brittle to break, but it’s tough otherwise!  

Get a Cobalt drill bit to drill hard steel. Also use cutting oil and apply pressure in an on off method not a constant pressure if it isn't cutting. Hope that helps.

Steel that snaps is always very hard to drill, that’s why success with easy-outs is anything but guaranteed.

As Dave recommends, cobalt bits are your only hope. Not black oxide, not titanium, and whatever you do, no brad-tip nonsense.

I wish I could help.

@Butcher Boy posted:

Get a Cobalt drill bit to drill hard steel. Also use cutting oil and apply pressure in an on off method not a constant pressure if it isn't cutting. Hope that helps.

Thank you, Sir. My googling research said Cobalt bits.  Thanks for confirming that the information is correct.  👍

@Stan Galat posted:

Steel that snaps is always very hard to drill, that’s why success with easy-outs is anything but guaranteed.

As Dave recommends, cobalt bits are your only hope. Not black oxide, not titanium, and whatever you do, no brad-tip nonsense.

I wish I could help.

Well, Stan, you are helping, as your advice is much appreciated.  

I will say, after disassembling the front end and putting it all back together again, I’m feeling damn confident at the moment.  Not that I’m not mechanically inclined, but it’s all new stuff for me, and I’m figuring it out as I go.  Yeah, I’m thinking that I’m going to be victorious in my battle with that stranded bolt….

After I procure some cobalt bits, I’ll report back on the outcome.  

@Wulfrik (John) posted:

Well, Stan, you are helping, as your advice is much appreciated.  

I will say, after disassembling the front end and putting it all back together again, I’m feeling damn confident at the moment.  Not that I’m not mechanically inclined, but it’s all new stuff for me, and I’m figuring it out as I go.  Yeah, I’m thinking that I’m going to be victorious in my battle with that stranded bolt….

After I procure some cobalt bits, I’ll report back on the outcome.  

Just don't bust the drill off in the bolt !! Go slow, steady and straight till you can get a good bit with the extractor. Some heat and lube will help too.

It's not really helping so much as encouraging. I'd like to be there because misery loves company, and being miserable with a like-minded guy makes a miserable job less miserable.

Keep in mind that a cobalt bit is harder than black-oxide, so they snap easier. If you have a 2-speed drill, try to do the drilling on the low setting. Use oil oil to cool the tip of the bit -- spinning the tip against a hard piece gets the bit hot and it loses its temper. Once that happens, the edge immediately goes off the bit and it wouldn't drill through a milk jug. Not drilling anything for more than 10 or 15 seconds at a stretch before pulling the tip and letting it cool off is a good plan.

For future reference, black-oxide ("jobber") bits are fine for drilling mild steel (sheet, angle iron, bar-stock, etc.) but if you're trying to drill stainless or anything that's been hardened, or even cast iron -- use cobalt. They cost 3x as much, and are worth every penny. I like the sets that have multiples in the small sizes, because it's the little ones that snap off. Amazon is your friend for stuff like this -- they have lots and lots of cobalt bit sets, whereas your local Ace or HD will likely have a choice of one.

Good luck, and keep us in the loop.

Well, I'm reporting back that I cried a very loud "UNCLE!" this past Saturday morning. 

My Amazon order of cobalt bits had arrived, along with some cutting oil, and I went after that stranded screw. 

No dice.  No matter what size bit I tried, I just couldn't get any bite.  None whatsoever. 

So, this morning I emailed my indy Porsche shop that wrenches on my 997, asking him if he would give it ago.  I'm hoping he's able to extract it, as I really don't want to have to go down the "welding in a new adjuster" route.

If you have a welder, you could weld a bolt to the stuck piece and wrench it out that way. Just a thought ............

Welding a bolt on would also heat the piece up as you weld it, making it easier to spin the broken piece out.  MIG would be better in this case than Gas or TIG.