Torsional rigidity and other questions

Here's one to consider: https://www.speedsterowners.com...ent/4388265478256441

I'm still going back and forth on the idea of selling it, although I might be a little flexible on the price.

To address your rigidity questions, the Beck frame attaches to the suspension at the widest possible point front and rear, reducing flex from what occurs along the center tunnel of a normal bug pan.  The car is one of the lighter Speedsters (this one is 1700 lbs).

I'm on holiday in Afghanistan at the moment, so I'm not quite ready to press the button... Then, I've got to stay out of the country for a bit to get the tax break, it will be a bit before I'm ready to go.

Yeah, the Beck's look really nice too.  I don't seem to see too many of those in the condition/price range that I'm looking at, though.  I need to wait until I'm a few months out from coming home before I start looking in ernest.

Doug,

A pan-based speedster can be modified to handle as well as any tube-framed speedster.

With the addition of sway bars, a mid-transmission mount, truss bar and front beam braces, as well as good shocks, tires and wheels, you'll be amazed.

Just make sure that you purchase a car that has the integrated steel-reinforced body.

Doug,

I completely agree with Terry, getting these cars equipped with front & rear sway bars, good shocks and good tires, creates a machine that handles very well.  If you go with a Vintage Speedsters car, they tend to like the swing arm chassis (VW) style, which can generate some interesting camber issues under hard steering.  Most of those camber issues can be cancelled out by a camber compensator though.  You can find a lot of discussion(s) in these forums about sway bars and camber compensators.

Terry,

Good point about swing-axle vs. IRS.

I look at it this way: Swing-axle = drag race, IRS = road race

I know the tranny brace and the sway bar will help with handling, it's just the part in between the two I was worried about.  I've done a body off pan replacement on a beetle, and there just isn't a whole lot there to stop twisting (without a rigid body).  On some of the kits I've seen a big beam that runs under the door sills, If there are kits out there without that, it just seems like a weak spot.

Beck and IM have integrated steel frames in the bodies, who else?

I will definitely have wide five wheels for hubcaps off panache; I like swingaxle for authentic camber, but understand the benefits of IRS for handling.  Whatever car I find when I'm ready to buy will likely determine whether I get swing or IRS.      

You want to also include disc brakes in your planning list, cause if you are driving fast enough to worry about pan flex, I think you will want to be slowing down easier than standard VW drum brakes !

Seriously, I doubt you are going to see much flex in a VW pan, I've had a series of bugs over the years (including a 72 drag racer) and all of them were equipped with front & rear sway bars and I never felt the chassis flex even in serious corners.

Buy my IM and you won't have to deal with all that pan/swing axle stuff..not that there's really anything wrong with those cars

...However there's nothing like a solid steel frame and modern suspension. Personally given the option I'd go with a rigid frame. Driving my car I FEEL my suspension doing it's job. It's awesome to have such a wonderful connection to the road

I just finished a complete mechanical restoration (EVERY moving part tip to tail has been replaced)..and cosmetically it's amazing. CASB100 as well

 Among those parts replaced is a brand new Chico 2017 mated to a new Pro Street gearbox... 78 miles on everything as I sort it out.

"Beck and IM have integrated steel frames in the bodies, who else?"

Even the entry CMC/FF has a very rigid steel perimeter frame.  Check diagrams in the build manual located in the library.  Steel is good 3/8" x 4". About only US produced models I've seen that don't are the bodies out of Rusty Tubs (and they aren't sold as complete kits - but simply as bodies).

"All that pan. swing axle stuff"   May I ask what "stuff" are you talking about?

Both Terrys and Wolfgang understand ---others, I'm not so sure.

This subject has been beat to a pulp but just in case someone who is thinking of stepping into the Speedster world they should have facts not just gibberish.

I don't know about all pan based cars but Vintage jig welds a steel 2X4 perimeter around the outside of the pan. This, plus the sortened pan, makes a very rigid base for the car.  The "jack test" does not apply as the resulting pan is so rigid there is no flex at all.  Perhaps this is not well known based on this thread's erroneous info posted above. 

Even without the extra steel strengthening 21 million pan based VWs were built plus a great many pan based Potsche cars over the years.  Pan based,  done well is a smart way to go.

No doubt a steel frame is a great way to go but the pan based cars should not be dismissed due to misinformation.

Do your homework and see what the facts are for yourself.  Anyone who says a VS won't pass a jack test is sadly misinformed.

Some folks want a car that replicates a real speedster---that is, a Speedster that is pan based and aircooled.

I have a pan based car and don't want to see it's value diminished by erroneous information

implying that it is second rate and inferior becaus of incorrect jack test information being put out there!

touchy.

erroneous?. When I say 'stuff' I was just being funny...however

..I know they can make pans stiff..but I still think a solid steel frame is the way to go if you have the OPTION. When Ford built the GT40 back when they didnt start with a pan based frame did they?

Swing axles..well I've got my opinions on those too but I'm not going to indulge that debate. However I'm always going to opt for the IRS over SWING. Just my opinion

I think the idea that Speedster replicas are flexi-fliers dates back to the early days when all were pan-based, and not all had the sub frame.  Those would be a bit too wimpy for real driving.  I like my Beck, and the advantages I see in the frame design, but I have driven Gordon's pan-based CMC, and it feels solid as a rock.

One minor correction Jack, the original Speedsters (like all 356s) were unibody, and didn't have a separate pan like a Beetle does.

Lane, Stoddard's 356 Parts and Technical Reference  Catalog catalog shows Porsche floor pans in their catalog for 356A, 356B & 356 C,  on pg. 35 and 36.

Hey Terry---I sorta felt that same way 2-3 posts ago. Let's stick a fork in it!