Trans/final drive ratios

Gordon Nichols posted:

Of course it is one of the best things you can do for your car.

Everyone knows that.

The problem is what Stan posted: There are diminishing marginal returns going from the 4-speed to the 5-speed versus cost/value.  So much so, that the vast majority of us simply cannot justify the greatly increased cost of buying/modifying the gearbox and modifying the pan/frame to accept it, not to mention the loooooong lead time just to get one (unless you find a decent 901 kicking around).
Believe me, I would like to go to a 5-speed, but for the amount of driving I do and the majority of the roads I take my car on, the 4-speed I have with a 3:88 rear is working quite well and I’ll stick with it.  I lost a little acceleration “kick” going from a 4:12 to the 3:88, but it’s working out very well for me, so that’s it.

It's like any upgrade, after you done it.....you wonder why you wanted so long!

keep in mind a 901 box with the right ratios is much more expensive and a pain in the ### to fit.

think about that twisty road where you down shift and past the guy in the bmw or on the freeway and drop from fifth to fourth to motor by the guy talking on his phone...but the most fun is when you wind it out in second and shift to third and it feels like you hit hyper space! then you shift to fourth and it happens again!

I drove my daily driver to and from work 2 hours each way in a 63 bug with a 1600 with dual kadrons and stayed with the flow of traffic and passed a few along the way at 75-80mph with the berg 5. I ran more combos than you could imagine in regards to ring and pinions and first thru fifth always looking for a better combo.

I always had a simile driving that car

TRP posted:

Too many work hours.  Too many cars to work on.  I need to sell a few of them or hire that guy Jay uses.

Ted

I'm available, or could be.

Give me a call. I'm staying in @MusbJim's pool house, holding down my day job as his pool boy. I could be persuaded to head up to NoCal, assuming the offer is attractive enough.

Let's meet down at the surf shack after work for shrimp tacos and a business meeting-- say, 3:30 or so?

No question that there is a law of diminishing returns so once you build something you get to live without for a while or at least until the madness gets you and you must have it.  Hopefully you've grown up enough to say no to yourself a bit  

IaM-Ray posted:

 Hopefully you've grown up enough to say no to yourself a bit  

I've grown up enough to say "yes" to myself a bit.

The trouble with being a compulsive saver and a planner is that eventually, you run out of time.

Exactly , none of us know how many seasons remain on our calendars...He who hesitates comes up short on life's experiences passing along  those saved tangible items to their heirs.

Stan Galat posted:

IaM-Ray posted:

 Hopefully you've grown up enough to say no to yourself a bit  

I've grown up enough to say "yes" to myself a bit.

The trouble with being a compulsive saver and a planner is that eventually, you run out of time.

Well your kids will not think twice about spending it  

ive been doing alot of "yes" for me lately..got the 17 P Carrera S,no longer look for dicounted meats,etc..feels good..but im not frivilous..

having not to pay health premiums is a BIG plus..:}

NO Tesla?     

Speaking of 'yes' for me, over the years I'd been saying mostly 'no' to me when it came to cars.

I've owned a total of eight cars since I was 18. I kept a BMW 2002 for 23 years. A Honda Accord for 18. None of those eight cars cost more than $18,000 - including the new Impreza we just got. Most cost a whole lot less. They have all been base trim level cars. No Sport-Chrono packages for me. I had the dealer take the factory radio out of the Accord because I could save $200 by putting in my own.

You might say I've been, uh, 'frugal' when it comes to cars.

In 2013, I splurged and spent the most I ever had for a car - on a new VS. Within a year, I had to drop even more into it for a new engine and transaxle, and explaining to The Boss just why that was necessary on a brand new car became a delicate issue. I told her this would be a 'fun' car. I think I used the word 'adventure'.

But from day one, something was missing from 'the fun'. My sports car sounded like it was working awfully hard in third gear just to do 40 mph, but didn't have enough 'sports' to pull fourth at that speed. And none of the Corollas and Civics passing me seemed to be having that problem.

@Terry Nuckels and @Anthony kept whispering 'five-speed' in my ear, but neither of them knew about the delicate negotiations I was conducting on the home front to keep from sleeping in the garage, as it was.

Eventually, time passed. Both The Boss and I were growing attached to our little 'adventure'. We were spending more time in it and adventuring farther from home. More and more, we were mixing it up in real traffic with real cars. At some point we both realized if we wanted to keep doing that long-term, the five-speed might be worth it.

When Anthony found a five-speed on The Samba that I couldn't pass up, I didn't.

The five-speed has completely transformed the car. The less torque you have on tap, the more transformative it is. I can now do any speed I want, up any hill, without revving the crap out of the engine. Think about that the next time a Prius pulls out in front of you when you're steaming up Momser's Grade and you know that shifting down is going to bend the tach needle.

You find out your old fourth gear really is an overdrive intended for high-speed cruising. This new gear you've got, just down from that, is what you want for playing in the twisties. That and the newly-lowered third gear are where you spend most of your time when you're trying to pin the tail on the dragon.

Anyway, that's my story. I don't often spend big bucks on a car, but this one time I did was worth it.

I haven't spent a night in the garage in years.

Well I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y25ordkIfgM

@ALB  it really is a pretty good explanation of driveability.

Congrats on that Oscar, Mitch....

It's about time!

I guess it takes more than just a five-speed to win in this town.

IaM-Ray posted:

Well I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y25ordkIfgM

@ALB  it really is a pretty good explanation of driveability.

Glad you got something out of it Ray. The guy certainly did go into way more detail than we ever do here- my brain was more than full when he was finished! I kind of thought he was splitting hairs, as either car would be a blast to drive, but he did make some good points and was able to back it up with the math. And even I'm grateful nobody here goes into that much detail with that much math. That guy was ANAL...

And Mitch's post above explaining they why's of the 5 speed decision highlights a lot of good points as well. The stock ratios in the type 1 transaxle do a lot of things, so of course there are compromises. A small engine'd/low powered economy car that has to be able to move 4 people any where around town yet be able to do 60 mph plus on the highway with only a 4 speed can only be so many things to so many people. We totally re-purpose them in our cars, add 50, 100 even 200% (and more for a few of us really wacko nutbars) more power, bitch about how unsuited the ratios are for what we want and complain about how much it costs to really make it right when the alternative (custom Mendeola or Albins transaxle, or even a 901 that needs to be fully gone through and different gears to suit your purpose) makes the money we're spending look like chicken feed.

As you learn to drive your car closer to it's potential you realize just how limiting the stock type 1 4 speed is. With a trans rebuild (hardened keys, welded 3rd and 4th gears, some oiling mods and a superdiff) running 1500-$2000 I know another 3-$4000 for a Berg 5 (and the close ratio gears) sounds like a lot, but once you've felt what those close ratio gears are like to drive, still have that highway gear and really understand what you're getting- it will truly transform your car

Still don't believe me- check into what a 5 speed Mendeola or Albins is worth.

Yoda out _{(and going back to bed now I am, but back later I will surely be!)}