Transmission help

Phil:  IM questions, ask Henry.  He'll be more than willing to help, I'm sure.

 

A five speed would be real nice, and I think you could carry that easily.  Where you get one, and what they cost is another matter.

 

The original cars turned 3 grand at 60, and everybody though nothing of that.  70 for 3,000 RPM would be better, for sure.

 

Sorry to hear of the trouble, and glad you made it home OK.  Or if not OK, exactly, at least at home.

 

Kelly

Assuming you have 24 1/2- 24 3/4" tires (185/65-15's or 205/60-15's), if 70mph is 3500rpm in 4th then your transaxle may have a 4.125 ring & pinion. A 3.88 r&p would bring it down to about 3200 at 70mph and the 3.44 brings it down to about 2900.

This is a neat gear calculator to play with, and you'll note the ratios in #2 are common 901 gears. 

http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalculator.php?kmh=0&tirewidth=185&tireprofile=65&wheelsize=15&tirediameter1=24.47&maxrpm1=8400&finaldrive1=3.44&gearratio1=3.78&gearratio2=2.06&gearratio3=1.31&gearratio4=.89&gearratio5=0&gearratio6=0&trannytype=&tranny=Calculate+Transmission+1&tirewidth2=205&tireprofile2=60&wheelsize2=15&tirediameter2=24.69&maxrpm2=8400&finaldrive2=4.429&gearratioa=3.091&gearratiob=1.889&gearratioc=1.261&gearratiod=.9259&gearratioe=0.7097&gearratiof=0&trannytype=

 

Rancho does have a good reputation and can build anything you ask for, but if you ask around, there may be a good transaxle specialist in your area. Track down and ask someone from the local VW club; they should know. I mention this because you'll save on shipping, spend your money locally and if something is wrong it's a lot easier (and cheaper) to get it back to the builder.

And btw, the transaxle is the weakest link in any VW based vehicle. I've destroyed one with a stock 1600 (I was much younger, there was a lot of clutch side-stepping and yes, there was beer involved. I said I was younger....). Al

I have had a very troubling thought.  I was at Carlisle this week end w/out my car (see other posts about all of the BS), and managed to bum a few rides in different right seats.  One was Phil's and another was Tom B's.  Both of these cars have since up-chucked their trannies.  I also hitched a ride w/ Howard B. in his exquisite 911 IM Speedster, and now can only pray that he made it home safely and his trans is OK.

Phil,

 

Sorry about your trouble on the way home. I agree with Kelly, Henry Reisner is your best bet for info and recommendations.  He may also have records indicating what trans was in your car.    

As all of us get older (it's not just me, is it?), it helps to remember that if you have a problem you can fix with money, it's not that big a problem. 

 

Thanks guys.  I was actually able to pull into my garage under power.  2nd is it.  No reverse either.  I know my my final drive is a 3.88.  I have emailed Henry to see if he has a record of my ratios.  Tires are 185/65/15.  If anyone knows of a good east coast tranny builder I would be grateful.

Tom B's 3-speed auto bit the dust?  Great opportunity for him to get a manual.  

I'm really not upset.  Was going to do some cosmetic mods.  Put the money away for mods.  I'll just get a tranny instead.  Mods can wait.  A good tranny is better than pretty wheels any day.

Al

That's a great link.  Love how you can compare two different trannys side by side.  3.88 is 63mph at 3000rpms.  3.44 is 71mph at 3000rpms.  I'm confident my engine has the torque to handle that.

I'd be kind of suprised if it was the trans. I wonder if the slave cylinder went south. Do Subi's have slave cylinders?

Bummer regardless

Ted

I keep that one in favorites, Phil, and as you said, it's easy to compare different gearsets. I especially like how it superimposes one graph over the other. You can even see the effect different tire sizes have. Al

Phil, sorry to read about your tranny woes.

If your tranny is toast I'd recommend a .89 4th with a 3.44 R&P.

The nice thing about a 3.44 is it spreads out all the gears.  With big motor IMs Henry usually recommends a 3.44 R&P.

 

Ron

That's exactly what I have decided on.  "Standard" gearing, 3.78, 2.06, 1.26, 0.89 with a 3.44 is all I need.

Thanks.  Glad to have my thoughts confirmed by someone with more educated thoughts.

Don't know why Henry didn't go with the 3.44 in the first place.  My engine doesn't rev fast but it has lots of torque.

As Ron mentioned, most of the time it's best to stick with the stock 1st through 4th gears and change the ring & pinion if you want to mess with rpm's at running speed. Unless you have a larger engine with a ton of torque, using a .82 4th (instead of the .89) with the stock 3rd creates a larger rpm drop than a smaller engine can handle comfortably. Shifting at 3500rpm from 3rd to .89 4th drops engine speed to just below 2500rpm; with the .82 it drops 200rpm more. Now there's a few mph area where it's too high to rev constantly in 3rd and 4th gear doesn't turn the fan fast enough to cool properly in anything other than light throttle cruising. Even with a 2276(?) Ron found the new 3-4 spacing too big. A bigger water cooled engine might be ok with it though... Yoda out.

As Al mentioned, over the years I've had a number of tranny combos:

 

1.  4.12/0.89  wow, this sucker really revs on the highway...no fun!

2.  4.12/0.82  rev to 3500 in 3rd and shift to 4th....where did the revs go!

3.  3.88/0.89  getting better, but still revs a bit higher than I'd like at 70 mph.

4.  3.44/0.89  much lower highway revs and great gear spacing.

 

Never good at leaving well enough alone, I've now gone with a 901 gearbox.  We've calculated that at 70 mph the engine will be humming along at 2800 rpm in 5th.  This might be a bit too low for proper head cooling.....we'll have to wait and see.

 

p.s.  Phil, I have a sneaking suspicion that your tranny isn't 'gone'.  Just wondering if it's the shifter or something else.

Ron- For a number of years (5? 6?) the transaxle in my Cal Look bug (my main transportation for 2 or 3 of those years) had a 4.375 r&p and close 3rd and 4th gears (1.48, 1.12). With 185/70's on the back, 3500 in 4th was about 52mph, and if it was cool enough cruise at 4,000rpm we were moving at a whole 60! I had friends in Kelowna, went to Seattle and Portland several times and LA/San Diego a twice. You get to see a lot of the countryside at those speeds...

Ron

I would be happy if all of this was simply a mental exercise.  A new Empi shifter would be a lot cheaper and easier than a new tranny.  Car is in shop.  I will know tomorrow.  The cabin had the smell of gear oil while on trip.  Doubt a bad shifter would smell like gear oil.  Let you know tomorrow night.

FWIW: if you can't get to a gear or two, first thing to my mind is the linkage.  Bushings and/or other clap-trap in the linkage that makes the trans do what it is supposed to do.  Not saying that there may not be trouble inside the case, but check the shifter at every location first.

Jimmy Sartwell at Acme Car Co. built my trans this year. Same as what you want. I've not got it up and going yet but he also built Cory's and that box seems to have held up OK.

Sartwell (one of the two the "geniuses" behind the Hoopty) should know how to do trannies.

I feel like an idiot but a happy idiot.  Shifter linkage was spaghetti.  Empi shifter and tranny just fine.  Car really needs a 3.44 but I'm happy to keep the tranny and save the cash.  I did enjoy going through the mental process of matching the gearing to mph and tire size and I appreciate everyone's advice and Al's great calculator.  I also feel that anyone pushing 120hp or more needs to go with a 3.44 final drive. "Standard" gearing with the 3.44 is probably fine.  Lesser hp cars probably need the 3.88 to get going but probably should go with the highway flyer 4th.  My 2 cents. My 2 cents is also listen to guys like Al and Ron before jumping to conclusions.

I LOVE my CPI  (or is it CIP??) shifter.  Pricey, but so precise.  Better looking than the EMPI, IMHO. Original VW type hardware is, frankly, the pits, even when brand new.  Check those bushings in the back.  They can cause real grief when worn.

Kelly, I think you mean your (and mine and others') CSP shifter. Nice and smooth.

CSP is a beautiful German tool but $$$.  Think I'll keep my Empi as long as its still sound.

Phil, its worth every penny, but the reach is sometimes an issue.  Had one in the VS and we tore through the TOD with it back in 2008.

I know Stan always raves about his Vintage Speed because of the more period correct look (and performance), but they are just as pricey if not more than the CSP (pictured here).

Marty

Do they make a CSP for 901 or 915?  

No, then you get one od these.  I have the 915 version. 

 

http://wevo.com/Products/Shift...s_Shifter-901All.htm

 

Henry can make you a custom ball to replace the 911 one.

 

You know, with a brown leather boot over the bottom that would look pretty cool!

I am green with transmission envy.  My Empi 3.88 4-speed will have to make do for now.

I have one more transmission related question.  If for some reason in the future I have to pull my tranny (clutch replacement etc.), how difficult is it to change the R & P from a 3.88 to a 3.44?  Does this require a complete tranny rebuild?

 

BTW I have also learned from Carey and Henry that they both use Rancho trannys.  Guess that's the place to get a new one if you want quality.

Or you buy directly from Rancho.

Phil, if your tranny is in good shape Rancho can open it up and swap out the 3.88 for a 3.44.  I would think that's the cheapest way to go.  I guess you could also buy a new tranny with a 3.44 and sell your old tranny locally.

Be warned that 3.44 R&Ps are not cheap.  I paid close to $400 for mine, and if possible get one made in the USA over one made in China.  The quality of the US 3.44 is better (big surprise).

Phil- What Ron and Lane said, and yes, it's a complete teardown.

 

Ron- I didn't know there were Chinese 3.44's out there; it figures...

The place that sold me my 3.44 told me that they were the last of the US made 3.44s and that the Chinese made 3.44s were of a lower quality.  I took his word for it, but you know the internet.

Talk to Dale (Schu) up in Stafford, he has a trans fetish.  Has 2 VW 4 spds with issues (1st gone in one and 4th in other or a core or to rebuild), a strong cased bus trans and my old 914 tail shift 5 speed. Dale was going to drop one off to guy in WV. WV would be close by drive. 

 

The CSP Black Mamba is a shifting delight - you'll think you have a new transmission. Well worth the ~$300 investment.

 

THXs for numerous rides in your car.  Glad it wasn't trans toast like poor(er) Tom's.  

Wolfgang, isn't the Black Mamba produced by Vintage Speed?

Yeah Ron, that's what I thought as well.

Twiki likey! Beedeebeedee-beedee!

Wow Marty, that's a blast from the past.