Transmission Noise To BE or not To BE

I hate when that happens!  Donkey bites are the worst.

Locations in Ca don't help me much.   I need some one who can pull the transmission if in fact it comes to that (sure hope it doesn't).  Once it's out the transmission would go back to Rancho since it's under warrantee.    

 

Right now I need some one intimately familiar with the Rancho transmission to help diagnose the noise and THEN perhaps pull it.   Again base on the oil analysis which I can get done by the local general repair shops.   

John,

 

You are approaching this like a successful guy involved in a "normal" transaction. You are going to become increasingly frustrated in this (logical) approach. The entire hobby is located on the west coast. Sooner or later, you'll end up shipping large chunks of your car across several time-zones to have it worked on by somebody who may (or may not) care about your timeline or budget. It might not be this time, but it will be some time.

 

It took me probably 10 years, but I finally stopped swimming against the current, and let the river sweep me along.

 

There should be somebody that will take the transaxle out in your neighborhood, but that's as far as it's going to go. If worse comes to worst, Cary Hines is only a few states away. That's a heck of a lot closer than CA.

What Stan said x2 - unless Dr. Clock, Gordan N or Danny P come up with more convenient suggestions, I think you can remove all the guesswork by at least contacting and talking with Carey at Special Editions. Great guy and very knowledgeable of all things Speedster. 

If you do contact Carey, I recommend doing so by email rather than by phone so that you don't catch him elbows deep in grease or fiberglass resin.  You can reach him via the website www.beckspeedster.com.  He's extremely responsive.

Well Indiana is closer then California.     Interesting enough I found a local listing on Samba.  

 

 

There is a out fit called Carlisle Customs located between Carlisle and Shippensburg  Alan Merklin and any of you other local guys any WORD on that outfit?   They seem to specialize in street rods and collectable cars but do advertise that they work on vintage VW stuff.   

How hard would it be to have WB, Alan, and possibly myself listen and pull the motor/trans for John? Harrisburg is close enough. Maybe even Todd?

 

David, a 915 requires the same Subi adapter as a VW does.

 

As for me, my trans has started making noise a few months ago. 35,000 miles of LOTS of abuse. It whines loudest in the lower gears and lessens somewhat after it gets warm. It is now jerky in the lower gears, definitely some bearing wear somewhere inside. I drained it and tried new gear oil(no joy) and there are lots of filings on the two magnetic drain plugs.  So a winter project for me as well apparently.

Last thing I'd want to be is a nuisance and this could be a bit tricky because the car is under warrantee.  What I really need right now is a person or persons or a shop who is familiar with the Rancho transmission who can just listen to the tranny and offer an opinion based on some reasonable experience.   Again after the drain and refill.   I am assuming if there is no evidence in the oil then I am probably OK??   Tell me is that assumption wrong.  Can the transmission be failing with no evidence in the oil?     I clearly need some hand holding but would be happy to pay my way if I can just get direction to a dependable repair shop that the collective "we" has some level of confidence in.   

Alan Merklin is 17 minutes away in Chambersburg.  You can't get a more experienced ear.

Another resource would be Wild Bill.  He lives near Harrisburg

All this talk about transmission failure....is the extra horsepower that much harder on a near stock VW transmission?

When I sold my 1970 Beetle the tranny was still in great shape.  The car had 115,000 miles on it and except for changing the tranny oil it had never been touched.  The engine was near stock, but I was anything but gentle with it.

I think the engine and trans are going to be louder in a fiberglass coupe than an open speedster ---hence my recommendation to see if there is any noise insulation under the carpeting.  Without insulation any noises from rear would amplify. 

Even the open cars are considerably louder inside with the top up.  I spent quite a bit of effort adding sound insulation to mine as I usually travel (e.g., Carlisle) with the top up.  My success was limited.

John Steele has also suggested placing some matt insulation which I will more then likely do at some point.  

 

However now we are back to just ignoring the problem rather then addressing it.   Remember my analogy to the chest pain.    I'll be more then happy to ignore it if and when it's been determined to be the nature of the Rancho transmission and not a transmission problem.    

Since it appears that you are close to several whom we consider experts, you should find it easy to get some good advice.  If Alan or Bill are available, I am sure they'd be willing to go for a test ride and listen to things.  That's your best course of action at this point.

John...I think the recommend to have Alan Merklin or anyone nearby to give it a listen is a real good idea. There's a lad over in Elizabeth, Pa ...just under Pittsburg

by the name of Geno Boyd. He rebuilds trannys and races VW's hard. Possibly he could give it a listen.

 

I agree that a Coupe might certainly be noisier than a convertible and a convertible with the roof up unless it had a very effective sound deadening system.

Guys,  I have to be careful not to get forum members in the middle of this.  It's not fair nor would it be at all helpful

 

 One of the fellows mentioned HAS driven the car and his opinion is that there COULD BE a problem and in fact suspects there is.  He however is not that familiar with the Rancho transmission.   

 

I would suggest we table the discussion until I get the trans fluid drained and the results of that posted.

 

Lets not stir up a hornets nest if we don't need to.   No one at this point has suggested that they will not do what is required to fix this if we do get HARD evidence of trouble.     

OK, THAT made me laugh out loud!! 

OK, let's face it - The only place East of the Rockies that will have recent experience with multiple Rancho transaxles (especially in replicas) is Carey Hines at Special Edition (who posted up above).  He uses them in his builds and has a close relationship with Sam Shackleford at Rancho as a trusted supplier.

 

email him at carey at beckspeedster dot com

 

BUT FIRST!  Wait for the new tranny lube to arrive from Rancho and do the drain, replace and inspection.  I doubt you'll find much in the drained oil, but the new stuff may help - You never know til you try it.

John, I spoke with Geno Boyd today about me getting a new tranny from him. I did speak to him about your noise and he had some interesting observations. He deals with Rancho too and uses their parts in some of his rebuilds.

 

If your car is the one previously owned by Dave Bash, I was taken for a ride by Dave at Carlisle last Spring to listen to the noise and give an opinion.

 

You did say above though that it's not fair nor would it be at all helpful so I won't tell you what Geno told me....   :-(

I'm saving saw dust --- just in case

Don't tell me Wolfgang. Sawdust in a tranny ? When we needed to disguise a noisy differential MANY, many years ago we used to stuff sawdust and a few banana peels in there for temporary relief. I'd forgotten about that trick. Memories, eh ?

What amazes me is that it came east with the know fault ( I was going to say , When the hell does this crap end? .... But that wouldn't be politically correct so I'll just sing to to myself..

"On and On...On And  On , On and On"............,  

I did hear the trans noise the other day IMHO  

It's either a carrier or main pinion bearing failure because it is constant and is the same on or off the throttle....That isn't going away with a band aid insulation blanket or fresh lube.

When you do drain the trans, let the oil filter through an old tee shirt to see what you find, ( no hard chunks of any size) Stick a finger up into the drain hole and feel around the base of the trans case and see what you extract, ( Dr. Vince is getting excited here:~) Normal is small amount of of mucky stuff, abnormal is chunks...

John I'm in my shop doing a motor on Saturday if you want to discuss further of call me.

BOY THIS HAS GOTTEN REAL INTERESTING.  Yes this is David Bash's car and it was at Carlisle and I saw it there.   I wasn't informed of the business with the hood and now it appears that the transmission was a known issue as well. Boyd in Elisabeth isn't too far away. I will be on the horn with him tomorrow.   It will be fixed and some one other then myself will be expected to cover the tab once proof is provided.  Thank you fellows for stepping up and telling me what you know and knew.   LIKE I WASN'T GOING TO FIND OUT.   Funny how things change in a couple hours.  Several posts back my concern was not causing trouble.  Seems to me 7 hours later that this is beginning to sound like Watergate.  We got a crime and a cover up.   Not pissed yet but the guys involved are going to make it right.  I paid top dollar.  I am still willing to accept that the transmission is "right" but I ain't no fool either.  It's gone from proving it's bad to proving it's GOOD hasn't it?   Alan you can bet I'll be talking with you on Saturday thanks for the offer.  Later.  

Pause:   Alan's humming brought me to "On and On" from my generation.  

 

I WILL BE DAMNED.  I know Geno Boyd.    I grew up in Boiling Springs and was a good friend with Bob Fink and used to deliver news papers to the Boyd home. Bob and Boyd were in business together at one time.   I am 68 and Geno (who was never called Geno back in the day to my knowledge) would be a couple years older then I.   Small world.   I do remember Gene moving away from Boiling Spring some time around the late seventies or early eighties.    This might be easier then I thought.   Maybe I can get my buddy Bob Fink involved in this as well.   I haven't talked to Bob in some time but I know he's living in New Cumberland.   I wonder if Bob works with Acme?  Interesting.  

For folks in the East needing a new tranny;  Jake Raby builds what is reputed to be a bulletproof one with custom gearing for the type of driving you do.  He built mine when he did my Type IV and it has been as flawless as the engine.   Zero noise at all--not even that whining that happens in reverse that I often hear from some Speedsters at Carlisle. 

 

I don't believe he does repairs ---just builds new. He might build on on your own tranny case but I don't really know. The price on mine was in the same ballpark as Rancho prices.

I know of Jake Raby as well I had a Porsche down there last year (2003 911) for his solution to the IMS bearing concerns.  Sold that car bought a Vette and then this Subie coupe.   Flat six is a real class act.   I am not sure they are building transmissions and engines now.   Something to consider as well if they are and would do it..  

Just talked to Boyd and he's going to be in Carlisle this weekend.  He'll listen to the trans and offer his opinion.    

Up date of the up date.    Drove the car and it MIGHT be a bit better.   I've talked to a number of folks on the web and off and there is SOME support to John Steele's opinion that this is the nature of the Rancho Pro Street trans.    Jury isn't in yet.   As it stands I'll spend some time with Alan and maybe Mr Boyd.  I will have a transmission drain and refill and keep an eye on it for sure.    I told John Steele that perhaps large part of this could have been handled by better communication.   Had I been told what to expect maybe (?) this could have been avoided.  No one is off the hook yet but today looks like a better day then yesterday.  

I hope it goes well John.  Nothing worse than searching for a considerable amount of time for that just right Speedster and being disappointed.....even a little bit.

Thanks for the good wishes.  I am not disappointed.  I am learning.  Learning about the car the hobby the personalities and egos involved in it.   My wish is to get past the start up anxieties and be a contributor to the happiness (madness and all).   Look I understand the realities.  These cars are not NEW cars.  Not new by the common definition.  They are reproductions of OLD cars.  Cranky old cars at that.  You fellows have all been very helpful.   I am philosophical about this,  it's a car. I've made some apologies for my jumping of the gun and I hope to be able to report that all is well.   I look forward to learning.  Seeing Alan work over a motor will be a great first chapter in my speedster learning.  I am especially well suited to buying lunch and drinks.  I am a one beer wonder myself be that as it may.     

Boyd listen to the transmission with me driving.   His advice is pretty much what's been suggested.  Change the trans lube and if nothing found drive it until it gets better, worse or stays the same.   Boyd's opinion is it's most likely ring gear howl and is if not "normal" to be expected given the type of transmission. Said it could be carrier bearing and if so it would probably get worse.  He was not alarmed by the noise regardless and said he's heard worse.   

 

I understand.  While not especially well versed I can be educated if given the chance. 

 

I'll fix it if it breaks.  Enjoy the car in the mean time.    Boyd looked the car over and really was impressed with it.     

 

 As NICE as this car is it really does deserve a better transmission.   I also understand that there may none available.  

 

More to come of course.

 

 

 

 

 

I would love to have a modern 6 speed too!

Yep,  Lets face it I'd love to have a Porsche Cayman that just looks like a 356.    I'd like my wife to look like she did when we first met.  I'd like to have..... well on and on. 

 

Truth of it I am grateful for all that I DO have and feel very fortunate to be able to have my Subie Coupe which I've wanted for any number of years.  

 

Trans fluid landed today.  I'll get her changed out and let ya all know the out come.  

This may have been mentioned earlier, but what trans oil did they send you? I'm interested to learn what they suggest.

 

Ted

3 quarts of Lubeatech Advanced Technologies (LAT) sae80w90 

Update to the update:    I had the transmission fluid changed and the results are pretty much inconclusive to my way of thinking.   A little bit of metal filings on the magnetic drain plug but not more then what I would think to be normal with a transmission of it's type during brake in. The technician said the gear oil looked "dirty" I've saved it and will have it analyzed.  Haven't a clue as to why it would look dirty.  I filtered it as it was drained through a tee shirt and didn't see a thing on the tee shirt.   I am wondering if the dark color was due to HEAT rather then dirt.  What do you cognizante think on that?    One interesting aside.  It's cold in Pa and the transmission made absolutely no noise this morning until it was run for ten miles or so and got warmed up.  My stupid brain tells me that the variable is the thickness of the lube and perhaps this could be addressed with a different (read thicker) lube?  Its got the recommended 80/90 gear oil provided by Rancho. I would not change oil viscosity unless Rancho says it's OK.  My plan is to ask them about the lube and to run the car and perhaps change the gear oil in another 500 to 1000 miles. 

 

SO QUESTIONs  1) Do you think the dark colored (making the oil look well used and dirty) could be heat related  with 2500 miles on the lube? 

                     2) any one else running a Rancho Pro Street have anything to add. 

 

                      3) Think have the oil analyzed is worth doing?

Dark indicates wear....run a bit

of the oil thru an old white tee shirt and see whats there....

What do you think having the oil analyzed would reveal? I can't think of any reason to have that done.

 

Does it make more noise in any one gear over another? I'm wondering what makes it a 'pro street'? Are those just more prone to making noise over a standard box?

 

Ted