True kit build

Buy the Beck !!

You're about 30 years too late for a Speedster in a box!  Classic Motor Carriage Of Miami FL was forced out of business around 1992!  The advertised build time was 40 hours - ha, ha.  30 years ago - it came in color gel coat, all bright work (no PORSCHE signage).  Top was vinyl.  Full tonneau and 1/4 in vinyl were options.  Chrome wheels optional as were aluminum over-riders.  One box had precut foam for the fiberglass  bucket seat shell and glue on vinyl covers along with precut/bound fuzzy carpets.  They even had optional wood steering wheel.  Just add tires and a shortened VW bug pan.

There are a couple of folks who'll sell you the "box-o'-parts" type of kit - Kitman and a Mexican company whose deliveries have been problematic recently, based on reports we've gotten here.  They are not as thorough or complete as an FFR and you'd have to do a lot of fabrication, including buying and shortening an old Beetle pan.

I agree with @Butcher Boy, buy the Beck.  It may be easier than you wanted, but you cannot get better support.  The owners manual is pretty cool as well .

We can "all carte" a less complete kit, we just don't advertise it, but we make them for other countries (Canada for example) that don't allow something as complete as our standard deluxe body package.  That said, there are a few differences still:

1) in our manufacturing process we insert the chassis into the body mold and build around it, so we will never have a body/chassis separate.  

2) it is not a huge cost savings, even unpainted, because we still do 90% of the body work and initial prime at a minimum to make sure we have perfect panel fit and matching.

3) there is no build manual for something this basic.  We do have a few in house checklists that I can provide, some of which need updating/fine tuned for new suspension, but there is no "step by step" guide by any means.

@Lane Anderson posted:

There are a couple of folks who'll sell you the "box-o'-parts" type of kit - Kitman and a Mexican company whose deliveries have been problematic recently, based on reports we've gotten here.  They are not as thorough or complete as an FFR and you'd have to do a lot of fabrication, including buying and shortening an old Beetle pan.

“NOTE: KitMan Motors provides a parts lists for customers to reference and fulfill at their own pace, but we DO NOT KEEP AN INVENTORY OF PARTS NOR DO WE SOURCE PARTS FOR OUR KITS”

I’d say Kitman doesn’t provide any kit. Unless you want to track down, and or fabricate everything yourself, I’d steer clear of these guys.

i believe back in the 80's Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde aka JPS had a stage 1 ..2...3 type build it yourself type business....that evolved into the turnkey car INSANE ASYLUM i did business with...  from what i hear he was a slightly different person back then...and i recently heard he has conned a new $$$ man to finance his "taj mahal" san marcos business ...but i really do not care...thankfully...perhaps someone that is interested could do a deeper dive into what that ponzi scheme has become and inform those that want to know?

Back in 1990 the CMC/FF Classic kit sold for $8k (Black gel coat deluxe kit (doors mounted and steel subframe bonded to fiberglass body).  Shipping 1200 miles was another $1400 plus crating fee ($250?).  Unbuilt ones are still out there.

Updating the top/tonneau and interior would be another $3500. 

CMC/FF also had the flared California body - with optional whale tail.  Windup windows and taller windshield/top was added $895.  Their last models sold under Street Beasts could be had with a tubular steel chassis (replacing the VW pan).

I recently posted a CMC with Subaru engine installed that I found on Facebook in GA for $20k.  It needed paint and interior but with fake Fuchs probably was okay start.

I built an entire CMC kit car back in the late 1990s.  I would never go through all that again.  @Alan Merklin has built a few from scratch with un-started kits and he has stated that he'll never do another one from scratch (But then, he's also "retired" four or five times now and is still refurbing Speedsters and Dune Buggies  🤷‍♂️  

Everyone says,  "A Kit Car - That must be easy to build 'cuz they supply everything in the kit to make it easy - Anybody could build one".

Let me tell you - NOTHING from a CMC kit ever fit right the first time. EVERYTHING had to be modified, adjusted or otherwise "made to fit".  Even the body isn't straight or level and each and every one of them needs to be adjusted to make them "right".  That is not the case with FFR kits because they are much more thought out than anything from CMC or others in the replica 356 world AND since the major parts, body, chassis, suspensions, etc) are locally sourced in New England and elsewhere, they can more easily impose quality control on their suppliers.  I've taken their Factory Five tour and those guys have their act together.

The Smith boys at Factory Five were listening to the complaints from builders of other Kit Car providers and they vowed NOT to make the same mistake.  You know exactly what you're getting in your kit and what you have to do, and they are, in the next generation of FFR management, striving to improve on an already great series of kits and their business model.  The support network in Social Media is excellent, too, much like this forum.  

So, if you want to build a 356 replica kit, and especially a never-started CMC kit, just realize that it's going to be a lot more involved than your FFR Cobra.

Brothers Mark and Dave Smyth of FFR managed to manufacture a decent bolt together 5.0 Mustang based Cobra kit that actually bolts together and off they went selling thousands. CMC as we all know was another horror story, one that required air-cooled knowledge and a multitude of fabrication skills. As mentioned CMC claimed 40 build hours with friends. Me.... I think the second zero went missing off the stated 40 hours and went the same route as all the missing CMC parts.

For me I would never think about building a kit car  ( Speedster, Cobra etc) that the doors and hoods were not installed by the factory  ,  Beck and  Vintage have jigs to line them up , and even with that I am sure it takes time and hair pulling

Thank you all for the input.  Yes, FFR has done an amazing job with their kits in terms of design, engineering and packaging an insane number of parts.  As I am starting to understand the equiveleent is not avaiable for a 356 - too bad.  The Corba has been  a lot of fun (of course with many frustrations along the way) but a huge support group through the FFR Forum.  We'll see what I end up with - I like the Beck but a VW frame would make registering as a collector car easier in WA (somehow I got away with it for the Cobra even though it is against the rules) - collector cars are free of yearly registration fees.  Again thanks to all - I know Beck has a long wait list so I'll be pondering for a while.

Mark you can still find unbuilt Speedster kits if you look around, and badly-built/never finished kits are also available. Craigslist and auto trader sites surface them occasionally. Drive a hard bargain and you might get a decent deal.

As the builder of an FFR kit you're probably seasoned enough to tackle the job. Just know it'll be a hassle by comparison, and enjoy the journey.

If you want something better take Carey's advice and buy new from him.

Be aware that a Beck chassis is totally different that any of the pan-based kits.  It has a modern suspension, rack and pinion steering, 4-wheel disks, and a tube frame offering more interior space.  It's much more like what FFR does in terms of modernity.

Since I love the drive of the FFR with modern suspension, the Beck is the obvious choice for modern feel and handling.  Going to open another can of worms here.... Since the Beck is a "modern" speedster - VW or Subaru power?  My FFR has a 302 that my son and I got from a junkyard, striped it down and built it to a 308 with all new components.  That thing roars and not sure I would like more power.  I have FFR buddies with stock 302, Boss 351, Coyote and 427 short block.  Crazy scary on the higher horse engines.  Again - another can of worms....

It really depends on what you are looking for from the car.

You can do a Subaru if you crave modern engines and no-muss-no-fuss motoring.

You can do a standard aircooled package if you don't mind occasional tinkering and a little maintenance.

Or you could do like me, aircooled with a modern-ish dry sump oil system and EFI. Totally reliable like a car of today with a 3000 mile oil change and valve adjustment interval. Get all the sounds and smells of yesteryear with no worries.

Ah yes, A/C versus W/C.  I've had both, so I can offer an opinion with some veracity.

A/C Pros: The air-cooled engine will be the most authentic and the simplest because of the lack of radiator and associated hardware.  You can even get it with fuel injection for better drivability.  Best engine sources would be Pat Downs or Danny Piperato ( @DannyP) if he's still doing them on the side.

A/C Cons: Bang for the buck ratio (bucks per bang?) won't be as favorable.  Quality parts can be hard to find.  Skilled A/C mechanics are dying off.  Anything above 150hp or so will be expensive.

W/C Pros: Bang for the bucks is higher.  170-180hp is easy to get and enough to scare you in such a light car.  Drivability is pretty much like any modern car.  The Beck guys have refined this to the point where it's a given that it will work well.  "Luxuries" like heat and AC are readily available.  You can run stock engine and get some pretty eye-opening performance.  You'd be able to get Mike Fincher to build your engine with some interesting colored powder-coat .

W/C Cons: More complex due to cooling system plumbing.  You'll lose most of what little trunk space there is to the radiator, so you won't be able to carry a spare tire.   Heavier (but offset by more power).

One factor to consider is how much authenticity of the experience matters versus drivability.  Also, the Subaru will require less tinkering, but when it does, it is a more complex, modern power plant.  I'm sure there are other points to consider that I've left out, but I have faith in the folks here to fill in the gaps.

One more note of dubious value: When I had my A/C Speedster (early Beck with VW suspension) I had a chance to drive a friend's FFR (MKII, I think), and he drove my Speedster.  There was no comparison in power, but the handling was comparable (not the same, but equally fun) in both.  The Speedster was by far the most comfortable and roomy.  My friend's wife much preferred the Speedster.  I put ~58k miles on the Speedster in <12 years including 9-10 trips from Charleston, SC to Carlisle, PA.  Some of the guys here have driven there's across the country.  While not a modern, comfy car, they are surprisingly usable.

If I was a hobbiest who wanted to build my own car and work on it every winter, I'd want an air-cooled engine.

If I was a normal guy who wanted to buy my car and just drive it for 20 years, I'd look at a Subaru.

If I was a guy who hated having money, I'd keep trying new stuff over and over and over.

^

@Stan Galat posted:

If I was a guy who hated having money, I'd keep trying new stuff over and over and over.

Like you(and I) do.

@Lane Anderson

You're only a-scared(like My Cousin Vinny) if you're not used to it!

@DannyP posted:

@Lane Anderson

You're only a-scared(like My Cousin Vinny) if you're not used to it!

Tru dat!  Right now Das Blaue Biest scares me.   I need to get it back out on the track.