Tube frame or VW pan?

Hello,
I've seen comments about the Beck tube framed Speedsters vs. using a VW pan. My inclination is that the tube frame would be better, but I can't see any information besides the company site on how much better it is.

Can anybody point me to some analysis showing the benefits of the tube frame?

Also, is Beck the only company that makes tube frames, or do others do this as well?

thanks,

Greg

JPS MotorSports uses a rear pan/front welded tube frame as an option. Believe IM builds up a tube from from scratch. Check on both of these, listed under Makers tab. Tube frame more rigig, overall better plan for a sporty auto. Straight pan designs maybe ride nicer, depending on how you define "nice". To me, the clear decision is to use the welded tube frame. I'm buying a JPS, being made now.

Greg, this is a topic that has been discussed at length on the forum.
Here is an example of a thead that came up when I did a search on "tube frame vs. VW pan:"

http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=5541

Also, I would encourage you to click on the MAKERS tab at the top of the page and check out each website that you can. This will give you a flavor for what the builders produce, where they are located and how the owners collectively rate their products.

In terms of analysis, what would you really expect? There has been no comprehensive testing of one versus the other by some independant testing organization, so most of the information available will be anecdotal or the opinions of people who have owned the cars.

Good hunting
Hoss

Performance and fabrication issues aside, don't forget to consider the fact that a fully tube frame vehicle may be mucho more difficult to license in your state than a vehicle with a tiny bit of the original pan - the tiny bit of course happens to contain the VIN number of a pre-smog VW. Perhaps the best design is 10% pan and 90% custom tube renforcement for that pan?

Excellent advice here about keeping some pan (expecially the part w/ the VIN), so the "build" is really a "repair" of an old, normally classic (>20 year old) car, and so you get Historic plates, and save a great deal of trouble. Do not believe most of the mills sold to run these buggies will meet all (any?) of the current EPA regs, so, as indicated, not being a historic VW might be a real hassle. And then there would be sales and/or excise tax issues, largely circumvented w/ Historic registration. Words to the wise . . .

David, I'm about ready to test that theory here in the People's Republic of Maryland. Most of my ducks are in a row. I'm waiting on one more little duck ...
(Kelly, you'll be all set if my registration goes smoothly.)

You may consider buying a version using the modern drivetrains, if emissions and EPA regulations are a factor in registering where you live.

I'm not sure which of the manufacturers modern drivetrains would pass in your State and which would not pass.

I know SAW (SAS), should be no problem, the new IM watercooled car might also work for this purpose and I believe the future Beck car with a modern drivetrain might work.

I am guessing the Subaru option (aka WaterMechanica) would be OKey-doke vs. a modern sniff/smog test. But I confess being totally bewildered about why anyone would want to do that. These cars are air-cooled, and that is that. I you want a nice thermostatically controlled, warm and toasty screamer, why not just buy the WRX as is, and be done w/ it? If I can't hear the fan, it's not a Speedster.

Kelly, the "WaterMechanica" as you have called it does not use a Suby powerplant, but rather a VW inline four; good choice in my opinion if the weight/balance works out well, seeing that it is rear mounted. I'm hoping the new owners will report on this.

A number of us have chosen to go the water-cooled route for reasons of practicality, minimal maintenance and emissions compliance. Yes, the cooling fan sound you are referring to is not there, only the sound of the radiator fan. There is a nice flat four chortle with the Subaru engine that makes a pleasing sound, assuming it is not overly muffled.

Personally, I have no desire to own a WRX but I do love the 356 body style. Moving from an air-cooled VS to the "Tubaru" was an easy choice for me and I do not regret my decision. When it comes right down to it, it's a personal choice; you do what pleases you.

Kelly: Are you planning to come up to the Carlisle show? The more the merrier.

OK, I stand corrected and have been caught not paying close attention. I confess to not being up on all the variations available from the various makers. My comment about air vs water has to be understood in my context. The first car I owned out of college was an A Coupe, '56. Later came a B Coupe, '61 Super 90. Befgore eithe rof these, a close friend in high school had a '57 Speedster, and we bombed around in that plenty. So to me a 356 has a certain noise, and the water cooled mills are just not going to do it. Will they be more eco friendly, run more reliably, offer better heating, less maintenance, and heavens only knows what other mechanical advantages that any sane man would admire? Certainly. But like I said: it just would not quite be a 356 Speedster. Besides, I have not forgotten how to adjust valves and Synch carbs and now own a garage to do it in, vs. crawling around in the street back in the day -- piece of cake . . .

and I will be at Carlisle. God willing and no earthquakes in No. Hollywood between now and then, the good Mr. Steele and his fellows will have my car done before then and he and I will be showing it off there. Hope so anyway. Sounds like a great week-end.