Tube frame speedsters

I need to get some info concerning the tube frames used on the various speedsters. I have an older IM speedster body that was under saltwater in a garage during a hurricane. The subframe is completely rusted out. The fiberglass is still good with only minimum damage to the body. I am trying to find out if the tube frame cars still have to utilize the subframe that is part of the body or will I have to come up with a new subframe. I am hoping that the tube frame cars are actually 1 piece and do not require the subframe. Any info or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Jim

You should ask Henry at IM what he thinks. He usually is happy to answer questions. Send him an email over the IM web site.

Jim, I know you're not afraid of a little fiberglass work, and a chassis like mine works fine in that event. If you get rid of the cross-member right behind my seats, both hoops and the downward supports, the framework will absolutely fit under almost any Speedster body.
The boot will need to be massaged, but the "trunk" will still fit.
I'll give you whatever build details I can remember.
Let me know what you need.

Cory,
Your frame looks as if it is pretty much a CMC subframe with everything added onto it. I might have to end up taking the subframe out of my widebody and using it as a template to duplicate to use as a starting point. If I remember correctly, the subframe is pretty rigid enough to use as a frame, just add the center tunnel and suspension mounting points and it should work.
I was hoping that someone actually made a tube frame that incorporated the mounting points and supports for the body. Heaven forbid it be that easy.

Will,
Thanks for the suggestion. I will try and shoot Henry or Carey an e-mail and see what they suggest as options.
Jim

Jim, you're almost right on. The CMC pieces didn't line up accurately from one side to the other, but that arch over the tunnel is a critical piece.
All we kept from the CMC pieces were the longitudinal 4" by 2" pieces, the upright posts at the A and B pillars, which are 2" box, and the outer thirds of the section that ran parallel to the torsion in the back. The center piece had to go for access to the coupler, and the front braces from the A pillars to the arch were replaced by better math. Right to left, there was almost a three-inch difference, and the footwell would have been really dorked up if we had built up off of it.
The trick is going to be cutting the metal out of the body you have, so you don't have to reconfigure the body to meet the new subframe.
You're either going to do a lot of spot-painting or a lot of body-fastening anyway; might as well dismount after you have metal tacked in.
Plan B; at least three of the builders use tubes, and I think JPS might be able to sell you a half. His cars seem to be half-tube, half VW -- I don't remember which end comes how, but any JPS-ophille here probably could tell you.
Welding box tubing is cake, though. Round tubing just needs to be cross-drilled with a hole saw to get the angles right where they meet. Not hard. All my reinforcement stuff is half-inch box; cheap, sturdy and available anywhere. The roll bars and such are DOM 1 3/8 or larger stuff. Not as plentiful, but really strong.

The sub frame is pretty heavy gauge tubing as compared to the VW pan. The salt water may have only created some surface corrosion . If you are going to keep the sub frame flush it out w/ fresh water. Sandblasting would be great if you can do it. Of course don't forget to paint it inside and out.
You can mock up a frame off the sub . Use some wood to make a template. See my frame photos.
other option is a Manx frame from the west coast . Check Samba out.

Jim
I have what You need!
Frame and one peice Floor pan.
CMC/SB -New Condition ready to swap.
E-mail Me for more details.
Thanks Steve

Joe,
I thought about building a frame using the subframe as a template. The problem is that the subframe is not just surface rust, we are talking about sections completely gone. After the car was flooded, it just sat around and let the saltwater just eat away at the metal for about 6 or 7 years. I have talked to the guy in California about the tube frames that he builds. They are pretty much just the replacement for the VW pan and still need the subrame for the body. It looks like the only way I am going to be able to fix the car is to either find a subrame or remove the one from my widebody and use it as a template to build one.
Jim

Steve,
The frame that you have, is it just a replacement for the VW pan or does it also incorporate the subframe for the body? The body that I have does not have any of the steel supports in it that are useable to include the door supports for the hinge mountings. I have a good VW frame that I can cut down but do not have the subframe section fo the body.

Sorry in advance for the thread hijack, but does anyone have a ball park weight figure for a square tube frame vs. steel DOM tubed frame? Anyone built a tube frame in 4130 chromoly instead of mild steel, or have an estimate for how much weight you can save with chromoly?

Jim
the frame that i have has every thing you need except a motor and a Body, $3000.00 - A ONE PEICE FLOOR molded.frame is new one peice
stearing -shifting- brake shock-front axle new- back Half and irs Tran from a 74 beetle used no rust-unwelded. The frame has all the door plates very strong- just Bond your Body to this floor pan! if you would like more info email me ditect------THANKS STEVE

JIM SAID - I am trying to find out if the tube frame cars still have to utilize the subframe that is part of the body or will I have to come up with a new subframe.-
No, but areas like the door pillars and dash board cross member hoop that supports the steering colum. These well need to be considered in your frame layout and design. In so much as the support of the body, I could go on and on. Jim, what your doing is a big bite to take in, in this endeavor. Having grown up around race cars and airplanes I don

DAVID
My thoughts exactly(JIM) it would save some Geuss work- Not all but some. it is a job but can be done!--hard to find a new Frame and pan + parts for this Price. thanks STEVE

David,
Thanks for the info. I'd appreciate you sending me the pdf. files that you have. My e-mail is "jander1965cox.net" . I have a few VW pans with titles sitting around that I can use if I need to as well as extra front beams and transaxles. Getting the measurements for the internal subframe is the part that is stopping me. I really don

You make sense Wolfgang. "Measure twice, cut once" as the old saying goes.

Some things sound easy when you say them fast. I know IM produced (before leaving Calif) the first FF/CMC bodies way back. I've got to think though that putting an old IM body on a new StreetBeasts chassis is NOT a simple apply Liquid Nails, drill/rivet and drop it on. I bet it takes considerable steel cutting, welding and repositioning stuff. Even doing critical measurements like pillars that door hang from wouldn't guarantee a fit. I recall reading DRCLOCK StreetBeast chronicles that it took major work to utilize their chassis on their body. It might be easier from scratch if you have someone good at welding near by.

I love to read TCs (TeamEvil) and Cory's vision statements. Know Cory's project was a true labor of love and was thrilled to see it in real life. Know I sound like a wet blanket - guess I just lost my adventerous enthusiasm over the years. I mean I could see if you had the 2 hunks sitting side by side and a case of beer and plasma torch ready to go.