Tube frames

Has anyone attempted to replace their pan and subframe with a tube frame? Does anyone know if any of the manufacturers will sell just the tube frame? Or know of anyone that makes a tube frame that will fit a speedster. I am considering this option as the subframe that I have in a CMC is rusted beyond repair.
Thanks,
Jim

Good luck. If I had to spend cash money to have mine done in a shop somewhere, I'm told it would have cost me a mint. It was expensive as it was.
I can send measurements and such, if you can weld.

Jim,

You may be in luck...Rocky C. has a tube frame from Thunder Ranch with a type 1 beetle wish bone grafted to the rear and provision for an axle beam up front. Alan

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=622306

There was a guy that had them at the Manassas Bug-Out last year - can't recall name - they sold dune buggy tubs too.

Shame you can't fine a burn victim - that you could slap the good body on!

Alan,
Any idea how I can get in touch with Rocky? Sounds like what I am looking for.
Jim

Jim I am here!
contact me off group and i will send you photos.
Rocky

Rocky,
E-mail sent.

If it is actually the sub frame you need it looks like Rusty Tubs offers those.

Use you imagination .....fab up one

Joe, does Buck Rogers know you have his chassis?

Hey, Kemosabe.......

You think that headset's gonna be stiff enough?

Geez.....you give a guy a welder and some of 'em go nuts!

You just wait unit the other project is done

Sheesh! One little tease every six months or so. When're we gonna see some pics!!!

I like it but, id lose the fork horn forward of the K frame and substitute 3/8 plates welded all around the k frame. all the way down the tunnel sides.

If your still askin why!! think about better seats that can be mounted lower and futher back in the frame.

yes your going to have to re work Brake cables, fuel line, heater controlls, clutch and gas petal.

But you gain head and leg room GLORY!!! aand can use the nice corvette seats if you want to

Not all of us have the equipment, facility or talent to do our own welding. That is why I really enjoyed a car show I attended last week. There was a garage-made "woody" replica shown, with absolutely outstanding woodwork inside and out. A small sign was posted in the car: "Woodwork by two old farts who can't weld". I laughed out loud!

That's awesome! Tell me you took a picture?
And Joe, you're loooong overdue on the update Beetle photos. You should have a damned Lunar Module or something by now, hmmm?
Do I need to mail a camera to Chicago?

Cory , I have had a lull in progress on the Bug project. With an illness in the family and some of my time working on my buddies prostreet 54 Coupe Deville I have had no time. The hurricanes in the gulf didn't help much either. By mid October I hope to have a rolling chassis. My buddy with the Caddy is going to paint the Bug. He's the same guy that painted my Speedy.

My understanding, the Thunder Ranch and Intermeccanica steel tube frames are closer to the original Speedster dimensions (more intererior space). Replicas using the shortened VW pan/frame (i.e. Vintage, JPS, and Beck) have different interior dimensions. The inside wheel well encroaches on the clutch, brake and gas peddle space and the passenger foot space is reduced by the VW wheel well. Also, because of the dimension differences, in the pan based build the driver's seat is not centered over the steering column).

There is a fellow in Merced, Ca named David Barret who designed a replacement frame for the old narrower body molds. In the the past David has worked with Vintage and JPS to supply tube frames as replacements for the shortenend VW set-ups. I will try to get contact information on David Barret for you and forward it to you.

"Replicas using the shortened VW pan/frame Vintage,JPS, and Beck"

Just to clarify, we (Beck) are not in that group w/ VW pans... Actually, our tube frame allows the MOST foot room of any of the replicas. More so than IM or TR's frame as well as the pans. Although slightly less "authentic" at your feet, much more comfortable in my opinion.

I guess my eyes were playing tricks on me. Next time I'll whip out my Lufkin, caveat emptor.

Look like nice wide roomy floors to me.

Actually I've read original Speedsters had the offset on the steering column too.

Yup, they do.

Bil George wrote: " My understanding, the Thunder Ranch and Intermeccanica steel tube frames are closer to the original Speedster dimensions (more intererior space). Replicas using the shortened VW pan/frame (i.e. Vintage, JPS, and Beck) have different interior dimensions. The inside wheel well encroaches on the clutch, brake and gas peddle space and the passenger foot space is reduced by the VW wheel well. Also, because of the dimension differences, in the pan based build the driver's seat is not centered over the steering column)."

George, There are a number of differences, some getting closer to the originals and some farther away; I actually believe that the IM and Beck cars have more interior space than the originals, so I wouldn't necessarily call them "closer to the original", just different.

Something else to consider is that there's just so much useable space under a 356 replica body. If the interior is pushed out to provide more cockpit space AND the wheelbase and track width remains the same, then the space within the wheel wells has to decrease, possibly meaning reduced turning radius when running larger tires - just a thought.

As to clutch/brake pedal clearance issues, I haven't seen much interference on CMC's or Vintages between the pedals and the inner wheel well. What DOES get in the way a lot on these cars is the bottom of the fuel tank cavity. If it were an inch higher up I think a lot of us would be a lot happpier, especially when we step on the brake and our foot hits the inside body!

On the steering column, I'm not convinced that the off-set column is wrong. I've driven original 356's with the exact same steering wheel off-set, so what is correct?

Just my 2 cents.

gn

Here's link to what the tub frames sold at last years Manassas BugOut look like.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=319089

Decent price at $1100 but shortened 14.5" so a tad too short.

There has been an evolutionary change.

The old body molds for 356 replicas only fit cut-down VW pans. In the cut down VW pans and early 356 replica molds the wheel wells encroach on the clutch, brake and accelerator peddle area, and the VW wheel wells reduce driver and passenger foot space.

The Type 1 VW fuel tank is well forward of the wheel wells, so I don't think that's a problem, even after cutting 14.5 inches out of the center of the VW pan. The Type I VW gas tank was forward of the front suspension and steering beam. In early Porsche's the fuel tank was moved behind the front steering mechanism and suspension, which gave the car better balance, but I don't believe it reduced intereror footspace.

The next time I get a chance to measure the steering wheel / steering shaft centering on a real 356, I'll let you know if it's off-center. Most original 356 owners haven't been interested in having me crawl all over their cars taking measurements. But, it's my understanding that when the VW pan was adapted to the 356 frame the steering wheel is 2.5 inches to the right of center of the driver's seat. That might be a consideration for some

I don't expect anybody to take my word for what I say. But, if you are interested in the differences between products produced by the different manufactures of these replicas, it makes sense to verify (first hand) a few of these rumors and consider how important the differences in construction might be to you.

Well, for me at least, none of this stuff is especially important. I just have ready access to original 356's (in the Summer, at least) and can measure to my heart's content but neither those owners or me care much about the differences.

However! Bill wrote: "it's my understanding that when the VW pan was adapted to the 356 frame the steering wheel is 2.5 inches to the right of center of the driver's seat."

Nope....Close, but no cigar. On my CMC, the center of the horn button lines up exactly with the centerline of the seat bottom. What IS off, though, is that, to get the steering wheel lined up with the seat, the column is about 1.5" left of the centerline of the Tach (or center of the gauge nacell, if you wish).

Oh, and neither my 1957 Beetle sedan or my 1969 beetle sedan had the gas tank ahead of the front beam - both had the tank in the trunk between the passenger compartment and the front beam, just like in a Speedster replica.

I'll be seeing a original, steel, 356 Cabriolet and a coupe about mid-October here at a meet, Anything you'd like me to measure for you?

gn

I have a '55 Pre-A and a "65 SC out in my driveway. I can go out and measure everything in sight if anyone wants.

Bill,
I thought you owned a VW before.
Didn't you ever look where your gas tank was located? It's never been mounted in front of the wheels.
The 11" removed from the pan is in the rear, behind the seats.
Maybe the rumors start with posts like yours?

Terry-
;)

Bill said "The Type 1 VW fuel tank is well forward of the wheel wells, so I don't think that's a problem, even after cutting 14.5 inches out of the center of the VW pan. The Type I VW gas tank was forward of the front suspension and steering beam"

Bill - that sounds like what happens for a dune buggy - even the 14.5" cut. It isn't true for the T1 - at least 1954 up. Ralph Nader had enough probs with it sitting over the driver's knees - would have more if it was forward of suspension. Ha, maybe the steering column is offset for "safety" reasons - so it doesn't skewer the driver dead center? CMC cuts pan 10.5-11" - Myers Manx is like 14.5"

I tried triving a Saab Sonnett one time - pedals are off set to center near a foot --- and key is on floor!