Before I'm accused of being off topic let me say "TUBULAR FRAME".
Now then, let me continue: Thanks to all for your compliments on my Speedster.
I didn
I don't believe the spectators were allowed to vote? But, the theory of the votes being too split up may have some validity. I know I questioned, and wondered if this may have happened also. In fact I sugggested, if we are there next year, that we have our own vote and then I'll agree to vote the way our vote falls. Its about solidarity to me. We as a group need to have that solidarity. I was very dissapointed in some of the comments made by the host at Knotts dinner also, being a little derogatory to the porsches while pumping to the egos of the cobras.
I don't really blame you for being with your builder, I merely was trying to point out that we all feel a loyalty to our builders, and it shows. I don't even think this is wrong, in fact, I think its good. But my first loyalty is still to us, and not to the builder. It is unfortunate, as you pointed out that at dinner there was a little builder huddling also, so Bill is being honest about an observation that I also noticed. Its natural really, but I just don't like when it interferes with us as a group. I don't like any manufacturer politics interfereing with the group, but from time to time it will naturally happen to all of us, myself included. Of course some people who think that even the very worse possible thing that might of happened isn't really cheating, its just the nature of the car shows and maybe it is, I don't honestly go to car shows?
I think there is some serious consideration for next years event being somewhere else and being a little more driving oriented. I enjoyed the parking lot of the hotel festivities as much as the show, and I think an event that is a little more driving oriented will be more to our groups liking?
We should all be proud of our builders and when were not we should tell them so?
I don't really blame you for being with your builder, I merely was trying to point out that we all feel a loyalty to our builders, and it shows. I don't even think this is wrong, in fact, I think its good. But my first loyalty is still to us, and not to the builder. It is unfortunate, as you pointed out that at dinner there was a little builder huddling also, so Bill is being honest about an observation that I also noticed. Its natural really, but I just don't like when it interferes with us as a group. I don't like any manufacturer politics interfereing with the group, but from time to time it will naturally happen to all of us, myself included. Of course some people who think that even the very worse possible thing that might of happened isn't really cheating, its just the nature of the car shows and maybe it is, I don't honestly go to car shows?
I think there is some serious consideration for next years event being somewhere else and being a little more driving oriented. I enjoyed the parking lot of the hotel festivities as much as the show, and I think an event that is a little more driving oriented will be more to our groups liking?
We should all be proud of our builders and when were not we should tell them so?
Thanks for the kind words Bill. Just being at the East meet would have been fun.
I was honored that our group chose Steve and Angela's Spyder as best 550, John's Subytub as best 356, and my new IM as best overall. But those awards could have gone to any SOC member attending. I think the spirit and long distance awards are something to reconsider when the west SOC meets again.
Steve, you are absolutely right. In 2004 I drove my VS to Knotts to admire so many beautiful cars and builders displays.... only to watch TR take the manufacturers award to the amazement of most SOC members attending. This year with Beck, IM, JPS, and SAW showing strong, it was evident that the fix was in. I agree, in that running were several IMs, a cool independent build, the SAW, and John Leader's JPS GT that was an incredible prepped, detailed, and super car. The TR cars were nice but were not even on the same playing field... that's a fact. Even worse, IM showed up with a strong display, as well as JPS, and still the manufacturers award went to TR... whose tent was set so close to the AHA, KCM tents that they could shake eithers hands, so to speak.
I like Bill Georges Speedster. It is beautiful, and he has a right to be proud of it an all ways.
I hope next year we don't have awards, except for spirit and distance. And, screw Knotts... that event is dying... even the Cobra guys are going other places.
I was honored that our group chose Steve and Angela's Spyder as best 550, John's Subytub as best 356, and my new IM as best overall. But those awards could have gone to any SOC member attending. I think the spirit and long distance awards are something to reconsider when the west SOC meets again.
Steve, you are absolutely right. In 2004 I drove my VS to Knotts to admire so many beautiful cars and builders displays.... only to watch TR take the manufacturers award to the amazement of most SOC members attending. This year with Beck, IM, JPS, and SAW showing strong, it was evident that the fix was in. I agree, in that running were several IMs, a cool independent build, the SAW, and John Leader's JPS GT that was an incredible prepped, detailed, and super car. The TR cars were nice but were not even on the same playing field... that's a fact. Even worse, IM showed up with a strong display, as well as JPS, and still the manufacturers award went to TR... whose tent was set so close to the AHA, KCM tents that they could shake eithers hands, so to speak.
I like Bill Georges Speedster. It is beautiful, and he has a right to be proud of it an all ways.
I hope next year we don't have awards, except for spirit and distance. And, screw Knotts... that event is dying... even the Cobra guys are going other places.
Boy, didn't we see THIS storm coming......
Bruderschaft
Then it's agreed, Steven O'Brien, next year the AHA Best Porsche Replica award should go to one of the cars with less than the greatest number of votes. Do you have any suggestions as to how that car should be chosen? And how will they decide who gets second place?
...well, waking up this Sunday morning, a little cross and not knowing why, I turn to my speedster brethren for the answers as I often do.
Lo, before me the beginning a rant thirty some odd posts into a thread and it wasn't started by Vince. I'm feeling better already, but still a bit punk. I read on and there it is, I'm suffering from a case of 'tubular envy'!
I guess it has been festering quite a while and started coming to a head when the builder of my cherished coach failed to show up at Knotts this year. As he is noted to be the most prodigious builder, it hurts to be abandoned like this!
I sought the comfort of others, "Hi my name is Paul and I've been abandoned by Vintage Speedsters" (Chorus, "Hi Paul")
Oh sure I've been known to flit from builder to builder, listening to John Steele's many tales until the cows too fell asleep and lost their way home.
I met the esteemed foking Henry Reisner and he'd be fun to run with even if he was a proctologist! But he builds neat cars and has some stuff in common with all the builders; they are seeing an increase in interest and a more varied demand on their talents and engineering skills.
On the other side of the coin they are being squeezed by bureacracy and business forces we are probably all not privy to...
Knotts was a joke. Weather was bad, the format is tired and many of us are unwilling to accept the changes coming down the pike in the replicar world. What's new? Why do you think there are seven classes for red Cobras? Disgruntled folks wondering why their car wasn't best at this & that. That's why.
So we grow and we stick to our favorites and we dodge, duck and dance a little when it comes to being polite with our opinions.
Ol' George used to drive me crazy with his holier than thou attitudes and regurgitatingly repugnant marque rehashes... but as you learn more about these cars, funny how there continues to be a need to improve and diversify... Stan's had three and they have evolved. Bill Steele has had one and it is a be-all-end all first time out of the box. But his is a roadster, a P-car to some, but it has a separate windshield and that makes it better than a cab of any variety in my little book of twisted opinions...
There's someone currently who is an east coast expert that knows all used pan-based speedsters are worth $16K or less and I guess he's had a few (cars not drinks)so his opinion has evolved over time as well.
..our father who once was in Stuttgardt, hallowed be thy marque...
Ah Blasphemy, I'm feeling better.
Totally Tubular-less this time around...
Lo, before me the beginning a rant thirty some odd posts into a thread and it wasn't started by Vince. I'm feeling better already, but still a bit punk. I read on and there it is, I'm suffering from a case of 'tubular envy'!
I guess it has been festering quite a while and started coming to a head when the builder of my cherished coach failed to show up at Knotts this year. As he is noted to be the most prodigious builder, it hurts to be abandoned like this!
I sought the comfort of others, "Hi my name is Paul and I've been abandoned by Vintage Speedsters" (Chorus, "Hi Paul")
Oh sure I've been known to flit from builder to builder, listening to John Steele's many tales until the cows too fell asleep and lost their way home.
I met the esteemed foking Henry Reisner and he'd be fun to run with even if he was a proctologist! But he builds neat cars and has some stuff in common with all the builders; they are seeing an increase in interest and a more varied demand on their talents and engineering skills.
On the other side of the coin they are being squeezed by bureacracy and business forces we are probably all not privy to...
Knotts was a joke. Weather was bad, the format is tired and many of us are unwilling to accept the changes coming down the pike in the replicar world. What's new? Why do you think there are seven classes for red Cobras? Disgruntled folks wondering why their car wasn't best at this & that. That's why.
So we grow and we stick to our favorites and we dodge, duck and dance a little when it comes to being polite with our opinions.
Ol' George used to drive me crazy with his holier than thou attitudes and regurgitatingly repugnant marque rehashes... but as you learn more about these cars, funny how there continues to be a need to improve and diversify... Stan's had three and they have evolved. Bill Steele has had one and it is a be-all-end all first time out of the box. But his is a roadster, a P-car to some, but it has a separate windshield and that makes it better than a cab of any variety in my little book of twisted opinions...
There's someone currently who is an east coast expert that knows all used pan-based speedsters are worth $16K or less and I guess he's had a few (cars not drinks)so his opinion has evolved over time as well.
..our father who once was in Stuttgardt, hallowed be thy marque...
Ah Blasphemy, I'm feeling better.
Totally Tubular-less this time around...
Thank you, Paul......I needed that.
Some one of these days, I would like to meet you. Just for the Hell of it!
Gordon
One of the "Just want to be a Speedstah Guy"s from Rhode Island
Some one of these days, I would like to meet you. Just for the Hell of it!
Gordon
One of the "Just want to be a Speedstah Guy"s from Rhode Island
They now have pills for those with tubular envy....
A clarification regarding Thunder Ranch
Is it me, or is there a lot of "partisan rambling" going on in here?
I was clear in my original post that I didn't want to demean anybody's car, or way of building them. I was clear in my second post that I wished Tom and Thunder Ranch the best.
I'm going to stay "on topic" here- if I'm uninformed or mistaken concerning Thunder Ranch's tube frame, I'm sorry for the misrepresentation. I'd like to see some pictures of the frame itself, not the frame after its covered by fiberglass. All I've ever seen is something that looked very similar to what JPS was showing at Knotts, which I was also clear about.
I don't have to put somebody else down to feel good about myself or my car. Not to dissapoint anybody, but I'm not having it built for you. I've posted my build specs and pictures from the build as it progresses for the benefit of the group, not so I can feel like I'm rubbing anybody's nose in what I've got.
Look at the frame pictures on Intermeccanica's website, and the pictures other owners have posted here. To say that the Intermeccanica frame is robust is quite an understatement. Everyone is familiar with Intermeccanica's fit and finish, and the level of detail Henry puts in every car he builds. I'll let Intermeccanica's reputation for quality, and my own reputation for fairness and reason stand for themselves.
Flame on, gentlemen. I'll be doing somehting constructive with my time.
I was clear in my original post that I didn't want to demean anybody's car, or way of building them. I was clear in my second post that I wished Tom and Thunder Ranch the best.
I'm going to stay "on topic" here- if I'm uninformed or mistaken concerning Thunder Ranch's tube frame, I'm sorry for the misrepresentation. I'd like to see some pictures of the frame itself, not the frame after its covered by fiberglass. All I've ever seen is something that looked very similar to what JPS was showing at Knotts, which I was also clear about.
I don't have to put somebody else down to feel good about myself or my car. Not to dissapoint anybody, but I'm not having it built for you. I've posted my build specs and pictures from the build as it progresses for the benefit of the group, not so I can feel like I'm rubbing anybody's nose in what I've got.
Look at the frame pictures on Intermeccanica's website, and the pictures other owners have posted here. To say that the Intermeccanica frame is robust is quite an understatement. Everyone is familiar with Intermeccanica's fit and finish, and the level of detail Henry puts in every car he builds. I'll let Intermeccanica's reputation for quality, and my own reputation for fairness and reason stand for themselves.
Flame on, gentlemen. I'll be doing somehting constructive with my time.
I agree and understand exactly what Stan is saying. I think you came in looking for a fight, but you mistake this for a fight. I in fact agreed that Bill's assessment of what happened was very possibly the case. In fact my original post, in this thread was just that a question to Stan, nothing more and nothing less?
Now as far as the attacks toward me, bring it on!!!! I could care less what you say or think. I do care about the group.
No Bill, I do not suggest that the person who gets the most votes, not get the trophy. I suggest that the people who actually know these cars and are actual fans of these cars stay tight as a group and vote as a group to make the trophy mean more. It means nothing to me what a bunch of cobra fans think is the nicest speedster. Just as it is equally meaningless to them what I think is the best Cobra. Well honestly, they could care less about our cars at all, and that was made very clear at the dinner.
I for one am actually a member of the AHA and I don't even plan on going to knotts next year. So when you say to call and bitch at them, you have to understand "them" is me so I don't need to call anyone.
Now as far as the attacks toward me, bring it on!!!! I could care less what you say or think. I do care about the group.
No Bill, I do not suggest that the person who gets the most votes, not get the trophy. I suggest that the people who actually know these cars and are actual fans of these cars stay tight as a group and vote as a group to make the trophy mean more. It means nothing to me what a bunch of cobra fans think is the nicest speedster. Just as it is equally meaningless to them what I think is the best Cobra. Well honestly, they could care less about our cars at all, and that was made very clear at the dinner.
I for one am actually a member of the AHA and I don't even plan on going to knotts next year. So when you say to call and bitch at them, you have to understand "them" is me so I don't need to call anyone.
I suggest everybody go have a beer and forget about this thread. It has careened off course and is headed for a nasty crash. We're all in this for fun, not one-upsmanship. If you want that, go to the Cobra sites.
I've been spending a lot of time window shopping because I have yet to figure out how to do what I want in a car within my budget. I've looked at all manufacturer's cars (except TR who is yet to have much presence in the east), and all have their good and bad points. All are fun for the owners as long as they understand that each is a compromise.
Before anybody's blood pressure gets any higher I'll offer to buy each of you a beer at Carlisle next year. Then we can swap stories about something other than frames, ok?
I've been spending a lot of time window shopping because I have yet to figure out how to do what I want in a car within my budget. I've looked at all manufacturer's cars (except TR who is yet to have much presence in the east), and all have their good and bad points. All are fun for the owners as long as they understand that each is a compromise.
Before anybody's blood pressure gets any higher I'll offer to buy each of you a beer at Carlisle next year. Then we can swap stories about something other than frames, ok?
The old litigator
Lane you owe me a big old glass of beer.....LOL
You're on. See you in Carlisle.
Mike .... This is driven me to the drink. Make mine a double! Oh! just give me the whole bloody bottle!
Mt. Gay Rum for me......
Pusser's Black for my fellow Pirate, Wild Bill Drayer....
Pusser's Black for my fellow Pirate, Wild Bill Drayer....
So,....type IV motor?
Laugh on boys.. A Builder posted on this "owners Forum", and a respected, honest, long time member that has owned 2 pan based replicas was put in the gun sites. Pass the booze and laugh away.
Gordon... what was the membership ratio you sent? Maybe we can chat about that on this forum while you sip on some top shelf elixir.
Patrick, now there's tame subject.
Cheers, and all that stuff.
Gordon... what was the membership ratio you sent? Maybe we can chat about that on this forum while you sip on some top shelf elixir.
Patrick, now there's tame subject.
Cheers, and all that stuff.
I can imagine a hypothetical conversation at the Knott's AHA dinner;
The vehicle owner of one REPLICA manufacturer says to a vehicle owner of a different REPLICA manufacturer, "What I meant to say was 'Please pass the salt.' What came out was 'Your car is f****d-up!'
Isn't this web-site for owners and would-be owners of REPLICA (refer to dictionary) Speedsters. Is this long thread a debate over which FAKE/IMITATION/FACSIMILE/COUNTERFEIT car is better or more authentic? WTF?
Run, Forrest, Run!!
The vehicle owner of one REPLICA manufacturer says to a vehicle owner of a different REPLICA manufacturer, "What I meant to say was 'Please pass the salt.' What came out was 'Your car is f****d-up!'
Isn't this web-site for owners and would-be owners of REPLICA (refer to dictionary) Speedsters. Is this long thread a debate over which FAKE/IMITATION/FACSIMILE/COUNTERFEIT car is better or more authentic? WTF?
Run, Forrest, Run!!
Run Theron, Run... it's another member without spare change to support the site.
Thunder Ranch, Intermeccanica, Street Beasts, Beck Speedsters and Specialty Auto Works produce tube framed speedsters in the US. A tube frame is in development for JPS as an option. Vintage uses a square-tube frame on the VW chassis. Off hand, I'm not sure which of the British and European builders use a tube frame.
-=theron
PS.
I've got a new little delete button which puts us right back on topic.
-=theron
PS.
I've got a new little delete button which puts us right back on topic.
about friggin time, too.....
Well done Theron!
That delete button should definitely improve the cash-flow from sponsorships. And it should also keep posts a bit more civil, maybe.
Oh yes, on topic - Tubular Frames
For those of you who have a Speedster kit and are considering fitting (or retro-fitting) a tube frame, rather than a VW pan, into your build I can connect you with David Barrett the frame builder who was at Knott's and works out of Fresno, CA. (For contact information use my email from the registry) Barrett's tube frame should be a direct fit for the Vintage molded body (Also JPS). Barrett authored a very informative post on this string, but his post was deleted along with all the rants and wrangles.
I will contact David Barrett today and suggest he work out some kind of sponsorship deal with Theron.
That delete button should definitely improve the cash-flow from sponsorships. And it should also keep posts a bit more civil, maybe.
Oh yes, on topic - Tubular Frames
For those of you who have a Speedster kit and are considering fitting (or retro-fitting) a tube frame, rather than a VW pan, into your build I can connect you with David Barrett the frame builder who was at Knott's and works out of Fresno, CA. (For contact information use my email from the registry) Barrett's tube frame should be a direct fit for the Vintage molded body (Also JPS). Barrett authored a very informative post on this string, but his post was deleted along with all the rants and wrangles.
I will contact David Barrett today and suggest he work out some kind of sponsorship deal with Theron.
Hey Vince!
I suspect that some of the opinions we may offer as comic relief will possibly suffer the fate of the delete button! My last post did!
I guess I don't take driving a FAKE/IMPOSTOR/REPLICA car seriously enough. Oh well, these little Speedsters are still a lot of fun to drive and this web-site continues to be a terrific source of information and great entertainment!
Drive on!
I suspect that some of the opinions we may offer as comic relief will possibly suffer the fate of the delete button! My last post did!
I guess I don't take driving a FAKE/IMPOSTOR/REPLICA car seriously enough. Oh well, these little Speedsters are still a lot of fun to drive and this web-site continues to be a terrific source of information and great entertainment!
Drive on!
Whatever happens, happens......
I will continue as always.....I have a certain entertainment value,
even if some don't get it...........
I will continue as always.....I have a certain entertainment value,
even if some don't get it...........
Hang in there guys, he can't keep his finger poised on the button 24/7, he's gotta eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom sometime! Oh yeah, them toobler frames, they's sumthin aint' they! I believe Mike Cochran has a picture of his personal mechanic inspecting his toobs.
Ah ye ole' delete button....if the horizontal and vertical are in fact to be controlled, run my smiley face up the pole and turn it upside down in distress as I am a non participant.
Mike, Not that's a frame! Nice "I" beams too.
Oh my my..........................I wonder if I can order bumber guards like those...........
Mike,
How'd you get dual airbags for your Speedster?
How'd you get dual airbags for your Speedster?