type 4 question ?

Can any one tell me where i can find a type4-(914) fan shroud/dog house that is a upright center mount altinator-rear fan w/o heater duct? thanks STEVE

Have you looked around The Samba? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?submit=yes&keywords=type+4+shroud&type=text&stype=all&username=&yearfrom=&yearto=&pricefrom=&priceto=&model[]=§ion[]=&wanted=show&zip=&zipdist=0&state[]=&usaregion=&country=&sort=date&sort_order=DESC&submitButton=Search

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/home.php?cat=249

more info: http://www.aircooledtech.com/type4_upright_conversion/

more more: http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914world.htm

thanks for the info GUYS but i asked about a (CENTER MOUNT ALTINATOR)(UPRIGHT) (NON-911) (REAR FAN)- but don't get me wrong i like the 911 fan/ i need the fan to be on the back side/doe's any one make a 911fan shroud like that? YOU GUYS ARE FUN OF INFO-THANKS STEVE

I'm fresh outta ideas here!
try this:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/Home_Page.htm (Jake Raby's site)

(Jake's got a "forum" and he's supposed to be a knowledgeable source of information. Find his e-mail and see if he can direct you)

Steve, the fan shroud on my Type IV is one of Jake's. I have no complaints at all.
His kits come with an offset alternator/generator bracket, so you don't have to go shopping for parts. The bad news is, you'll have to modify the rain-deflector plate in your decklid, but the benefits really are worth it. The apex-type shroud you're looking for doesn't do a terriffic job of evenly cooling all four cylinders, and the 911-looking shrouds aren't all that efficient, either.
It'll set you back a few bucks to buy a DTM new, but there are a few out there for sale second-hand. Used, they might be $500 and up. New, the kits are almost a grand.

Wanna see something neat?

I'll type out his full name with a comment—ready?


You ought to contact Jake Raby about your engine, BUT be prepared to be sold something at some point during his answer.


OK now, let's just sit here and wait. He's either got a master piece of programing that searches the world for references of his name or has mountains of minions who do the work by hand. Either way, I've seen it at work and it's amazing. He practically posts before you hit "send" . . .

Everybody should be passionate about something, TC.
Besides, I never met a businessman who was in business to LOSE money ...

You've stumped the peanut gallery here.
Does what you've requested actually exist, or is it sumpting you dreamed up (like Skittle-flavored beer) ?

Go to Shoptalkforums or Thesamba , search for joe cali

COCRHANE/ SLATTER/DRAKE/ PRICK /TART THANKS FOR THE INFO BIG HELP.
CORY I WANT COOLING 1ST/ LOOKS 2ND AND IVE HEARD A LOT OF BAD PRESS,
ON THE 911 COOLING PROBLEMS.or is that nobody likes the BERG MAN.

I DONT LIKE THE LOOKS OF THE DTM BUT IT IS THE BEST IT LOOKS LIKE ILL HAVE TO CALL JAKE RABY AND LISTEN TO HIS SALE'S PITCH BECAUSE EVEDENTLY YOU GUY'S ARE SOLD ON HIS PRODUCTS. the madness never stops it's like spending money/but you have to spend it to sooth the madness.

ok see if this helps,i think Corry D know what i'm looking for He called it a appex, here's a pic this is the style/does it function great? STEVE -see its not BEER FLAVORED SKITTELS-its just from Denmark

Cory D- one more are there any external differences between a 1.7/1.8/2.0 914 are all the dementions the same and bolt locations?
will they fit in the same hole/i'm moching up with a 1.7 and going to bolt in the new 2.3 this spring?--one more-is that a heater hose on top of the dtm fan you have?

SLATER is with 1 "t". In regards to Raby, he's just barking up the right tree. After a lot of dyno time-trial and error-he's DOCUMENTED his results and constantly improved things a little a time. In engineering it's called "a process of iteration", or basically, continuous product improvement. Remember we are dealing with AIRFLOW, and as much "science" goes into this, sometimes art and "black magic" come into play as well. In a typical upright VW-type fan housing there are vanes called "airfoils" which direct and affect the velocity of air passing over them. These shapes (known as Eiper or NACA profiles et al) have passed the scrutiny of thousands of lab hours/practical testing. It wasn't until I had built a few engines myself that I gave all this a second thought. There's a great deal of info here and on the internet. Do some more research and then call Mr. Raby or whomever you respect re: air-coolers. (There's a lot opinions out there, try to eliminate those opinions that are NOT based on guesswork. Go to the guys that design and race them first.) And remember: "form follows function."
ADD: check this "cutaway" out-pictures work for me!
http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/brad/fanshroudtech.htm

damn SLATER with one T your pretty smart feller.and good with the key pad to. Well i'm new at the key pad. And reserecting my love for the AIR COOLED ENGINE.all i need is michanical fax and a fan shroud that will cool a 250hp inter cooled turbo'ed type 4. not a bunch of sales bull shit. from Raby or BERG. i'm just i hillbilly AUTOMOTIVE SCULPTER that can make chicken salad out of chicken shit when it comes to metal or fiberglass and chevrolets. so slater with 1t do you have the answer for me. sorry for type o's ---STEVE----- basicly the best fan for the job?

Sounds like you're way ahead of me Steve. I'm just a 61 year old grandfather trying to keep up with y'all. I'll pass on that chicken though-with that image in my head, I thinkin' it's gonna be a salad for me and the misses.
Keep us all posted on what you find out. Don't worry about the 1 "t"-my high school history teacher used to call me Mr. Salter, but that was all right by me.

The hose on top of the DTM sends air to the oil cooler.

~WB

Yeh Bill-I wondered about that hose. I'd like to see the whole thing to see his cooler set-up. This whole "air" topic is interesting.
(On the airflow subject, check out Jim Hall's "vacuum cleaner" car from the 60's. You'll have to Google it as I don't have my old info on the Can-Am cars-but we used to go out to Riverside raceway all the time to see 'em race. Got to meet a lot of the old schoolers, great guys.) I think Hall's cars were the Chaparrals.
Add-link: http://www.photoessayist.com/canam/chaparral/chaparral.htm

Cory's DTM
http://speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=paininthebug&f=102006+DTM+orange.JPG

Has any one done the Joe Cali shroud conversion or have the book? I think I have all the pieces but not sure. Making the alternator holder looks like fun.

looks like i'll be calling the type 4 guru (RABY)for one of his high tech fan shroud. and SOC MEMBERS THANKS FOR EASING THE STRESS OF RESERCHING ON THE NEVER ENDING .COM ----STEVE---HA SLATER HERE'S A PIC OF MY HAND MADE "CHICKEN SALAD" WITH TWIN GRILLS

Steve, what grilles are used on that lid. CMC cast repro. or an original Porsche grille?

I checked out a few other sources (if they're of no use, no harm done)

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C31-198-230-400

Also: on ShopTalkForum this article:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=122436&highlight=upright+fan+housing+conversions

Picture of that DTM that someone posted:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=427758
(it says for type 181-isn't that the "Thing" model?)
Slater
PS: nice work on the grilles

slater you sure are hand with the tech info tanks again!!!!
i'm liking that $340.00 tin conversion type 1 dog house simple.
BILL I JUST STUCK A SET OF CAST CMC GRILL IN IT FOR PHOTO'S THE DECKLID THAT I BUILT THE MOLD FROM, WILL ACCEPT THE REPRO PORSCHE CURVED GRILL'S VERY AVALIABLE. STEVE

Ok-I know, I'm beating this to death. But I'm thinking THIS is worth looking at:
http://aircooledtech.com/type4_upright_conversion/finished_pictures/
(This guy used the original "Joe Cali" style T-4 upright conversion.) Scroll down the linked page to "Cylinder Tin". A lot of pictures. Pretty cool-almost everyone with welding skills can save a ton of money.
Over and Out!
Slater (1 T)

The fan blows air through the black hose, around the back side of the shroud, over the inlet for the fan itself. It forces air past the microbus oil cooler that's mounted on the back of the shroud in its own fiberglass housing.
Oil lines come out of the pump, before the filter, return to the same place and then go through a remote cooler before they finally go through the FRAM spin-on filter.
Essentially, my oil goes three different places in sequence before returning to the engine.
The remote cooler on the back of Jake's shroud sticks up kind of high, but it frees up the entire inside of the shroud for air to evenly pass through the cylinder vanes without disruption of flow.
Hope that helps.
The apex-type usually include a smaller, Type 1 oil cooler inside of it somewhere, but that obstructs airflow to at least one cylinder.
The folks who have made those work have usually also added a multi-pass external cooler to their cars.

Steve, a couple other things, while I'm thinking about it.
The engine I have isn't stock anymore, either. It's a 2424 now (104.5x71). It had been a 2366 (103x71).
The pistons and cylinders are Total Seal. The heads are oval-port bus, and the case was -- as far as anyone's been able to tell me, a 912E 2.0 that went the aircraft route and never got installed in either a car or a plane. I got it by way of a guy who broke a rocker arm in a dragster; wanted to replace the whole engine anyway. It had no cooling pieces on it at all when I took delivery.
Jake's shroud fit just fine. He'll recommend tins for the surround, and it's much less of a pain in the butt to use the hydro-cut ones he's got than to try to do them all yourself.
The tins will just be the apron pieces that mate to the shroud itself, and you'll have to cut the holes for your turbo plumbing.
Aslo, depending on where -- and how -- your turbo pipes live, you should know that that shroud is fiberglass.
Your brackets and such can probably use the shroud for support, but I wouldn't count it as the primary mount for anything that vibrates a lot.
A couple extra bolts and a motor plate will cut down on the cracks in the 'glass over time.
After two years, and I don't drive all that carefully, mine has developed some cracks around the rivets and such. It's not a show car, so I really don't care.
I bought the Stage III kit from him, if memory serves. Shroud, tins, generator stand, ... everything minus the alternator, fan, pulley and such.
His crank pulley works well and the whole shooting match uses a Beetle belt. It didn't require a lot of thought to put together, but the carb linkage has to go on the tail-light side of the shroud, and you'll want to put it all together before stuffing it up into the car. I'd recommend clearing out the entire lower engine compartment, making the sidewalls go straight down to open air -- no bottom-side horizontal tins around the frame -- until it's installed and you can make your own to match the tins Jake sends. I made all my own tins, apart from the six or so pieces in Jake's kit, but I also installed the engine with the rear of the body removed from the car.
I kinda went a little overboard, and the guy who did the car with me had done this stuff hundreds of times before. That really helped cut down on the learning curve.

Steve the pic you posted looks like an older SHARPBUILT shroud.
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/examplesvw.htm

Cory-what temps are you seeing with this set-up?

CORY I HAVE TO SAY YOU HAVE THE BADDEST/COOLEST/MOST OUTLAWED UP SPEEDSTER ON THE SOC.--(1%er)--the sign of the OUTLAW you have earnerd it. that is coming from a guy who has built the best-FOR-SEMA/OAKLAND ROADSTER SHOW.--- STEVE

dave tart -thanks for the link SHARP BUILT (NICE)wow and Slater good ? what are your cylender temps cory?

Steve, I appreciate it -- but it's only pretty underneath. The body's in sad shape. I'd say it's more of a muscle car than a lot of Speedsters, but nowhere as pretty as the vast majority. It's more utilitarian than anything, built like it is solely so we can beat the snot out of it.

The temperatures dropped considerably after I added a remote cooler.
On the initial setup, without the electric multi-pass cooler that's behind the driver's seat, the oil temperature in the case routinely got to 260.
That's running up the rpms to about 5500 for most of I-95 between Baltimore and Wilmington, DE, in 80-90-degree weather. It stayed put, only dropping if I took my foot out of the throttle.
After installing the remote cooler, the temperature stabilized at 220 for the same conditions.
Around town, it usually stays at about 180-190.
The cylinder head temps are probably something like 260 now for open throttle highway driving. I don't have any way to measure that installed on the car, but I aimed a thermal imager at the left-hand head when I got to work one day, and it read the center of the bottom of the head at 240 after three minutes of cooling time.
Again, there's nothing special from the connecting rods out. Ordinary iron and steel parts for the pistons and cylinders -- except that they're huge -- and aluminum heads.

cory i really like your approch on the whole car its a never ending story isn't it. that what i'm trying to build a hard driver to fit my OUTLAW STYLE. i got so tired of building trailer Queens,and sitting at car shows with every type of 32 ford on the planet.
WELL I'M GOING TO GIVE THE STREET ROD GUYS/ MY FREIND A TASTE OF THE SPEEDSTER but it cant just bark with those guys it has to back it up on the local highway or i will get laft back in the dog house. I have 2 corvette's 69 big block/ and a C5 zo6, but i want to kick there ass with a air cooled type 4.that would be fun for me.no sitting at a car show with a bunch of guys that can't even get hard-on's talking shit and telling lie's/ STEVE

Steve - i have a V2 DTM (fits very well in the speedy back end without serious fiberglass mods to the rear hood)

save your $$ and buy a used one.

Here is a used one on STF:

http://www.shoptalkforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=123517&sid=a569008b0e539b56f1cebe8810db0ceb

PAUL
WILL IT FIT A STROKER 2.3 LITER AND DOES IT HAVE OUTER TIN BOLT HOLES. I LIKE THE CLEAN STYLE OF THE V/2- KIT.I HAVE A "911 SHORT" STYLE "BAS" I WOULD LIKE TO TRADE IT'S NOT MADE FOR STOKER MOTOR. STEVE

what stroker are you running? 103 jugs will give you a 2.3L (with a stock crank)

the BAS 'short' 911 kit required machining of the case (ie: complete engine disassembly).

PAUL JUST SHOOT ME FIRST I THINK I GO WITH THE DTM V/2 IT'S A CLEAN DESIGN/ NO HOSE STICK OUT THE TOP. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WILL DO THE JOB. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP SOC MEMBERS.STEVE

Steve - it sounds like you are putting together one BAD-A$$ Speedster! I'm guessing most everybody on here would like to see pics of your progress and the eventual finished product!

JIM---if i could put this speedter stuff in a needle and shoot it up!!!!!!!! that would be a easyer death.....lol....lol.
(THE BADDEST SPEED THE SMOKY MOUTAINS HAS EVER SEEN) "AIR OR WATER COOLED sas" THE SMOKEY MOUTAIN SPEEDSTER WILL SHOW UP AT A--(SOC DEAL'S GAP RALLY ONE DAY)-STILL COLLECTING $PARTS$$ CAN"T PUT A DATE ON IT YET!!!-- BUT I WILL DEFF. KEEP YOU GUY'S INFORMED--ha jim you think should light some FIRE'S==/\/\/\/\/\OVER AND OUT -STEVE