Type IV

In other news, this car sold today for $44K

This happens nearly every week on BaT.

I mean, seriously.

Yes, that is nice, at a great price.

@Stan Galat posted:

In other news, this car sold today for $44K

This happens nearly every week on BaT.

I mean, seriously.

Something about the paint or the pictures makes that one look out of proportion to my eyes. Maybe why it didn’t get more love. And just like our plastic fantastics, home built kits are a different animal than turn key factory cars.

@Stan Galat posted:

I hear you, David-- I just can't love the Lister body, though.

A Devin could be cool.

My all-time favorite cars are sports racers from 55-65. Comparatively, the Lister is about half way between the home-built Specials like Old Yeller and Ferrari TRs. I prefer the Jags to the huge hood Cheveys, but I could live with it.

I hear you about the Devin. Unfortunately, the front-engined ones are bringing crazy money. Even the VW and Corvair ones are $50K+. There’s a company making new one but they don’t have the economy of scale like Carey and Greg do. IIRC, a roller is <$75K.

@Sacto Mitch posted:

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So, what's the word on actually driving plastic Cobras?

.

I’ve posted this a couple of times previously: With Kirkhams here in town, quite a few guys I grew up with who made bank in construction and computer businesses bought them. Every time I see them at a show they say they rarely drive them other than to/from shows.  They’re just too brutal for casual street driving. Honestly, I can’t think of EVER seeing one on the road, and I used to have a storage unit 5 blocks from their factory.

If I had the time and the money, I’d have Dave build me a 289 FIA and power it with a 2.3L EcoBoost. The weird square off “flares” on the slab sides ruin it for me as do the SC rear fenders. Like Goldilocks, the 289 FIA is “just right.”

A Shelby is not my choice of a roadster

My “choice of a roadster” would be a Turner MK III, but no one makes a replica* and the originals are too expensive.

* Which is a shame because they weren’t much different that a Speedster replica from the factory, with a simple tube ladder frame, fiberglass body, and BMC/English Ford components.

@dlearl476 posted:

I’ve posted this a couple of times previously: With Kirkhams here in town, quite a few guys I grew up with who made bank in construction and computer businesses bought them. Every time I see them at a show they say they rarely drive them other than to/from shows.  They’re just too brutal for casual street driving. Honestly, I can’t think of EVER seeing one on the road, and I used to have a storage unit 5 blocks from their factory.

If I had the time and the money, I’d have Dave build me a 289 FIA and power it with a 2.3L EcoBoost. The weird square off “flares” on the slab sides ruin it for me as do the SC rear fenders. Like Goldilocks, the 289 FIA is “just right.”

I would agree. If I was going to build a cobra it would be a 289 FIA. But why an Ecoboost. I would build or buy a small block ford engine. I’d probably go with a 302 since they are cheaper and plentiful. But a high revving 289 would be ideal. 351? How about a contemporary Coyote crate engine. 480hp for less than $12k. But I don’t think I’d do a 4 banger. IMAO. (I like that. Never be humble)

MY preferred roadster is a 356A Speedster. I'd prefer that lawn-mower engines didn't cost more than an LS3, but then again -- things are what they are.

I have one friend with a real 427 cobra and a replica 427 cobra.  He drives them both all over.  Loves each of them for different reasons.  The replica is putting out close to 700 horses.  It's a beast.

Another friend purchased a 63 289 from auction site unseen.  First time he drove it was on our rally.  Definitely required fine tuning.  The next year, he brought it again to the rally.  Unfortunately he didn't find it fun to drive.  Felt it drove like a truck.  Parked it the rest of the rally and drove his 63 Carrera 2 (4cam).  I told him he should just park the cobra, and build a 289 replica with modern underpinnings to enjoy.  The original could be stored for investment purposes.

@Stan Galat posted:

MY preferred roadster is a 356A Speedster. I'd prefer that lawn-mower engines didn't cost more than an LS3, but then again -- things are what they are.

No question…..can’t seem to find a shape that beats this shape for me..

and …. see the real top, roll up windows and awesome interior… even before the Vintage shifter it now has.  did I mention A/C?   Thank you HR...Early cold morning….

Found a picture of the new shifter.  

BTW, every modern car has lost it’s luster for me… what can I say.

@IaM-Ray posted:

Early cold morning….

In related news, I swapped the Smart out for the 968 yesterday. It was too late in the day to deal with dropping the top, and dang, the heater dries my eyeballs out even on 1/4 with the top up, but I plan on dropping it tomorrow when I run errands. 45°-50° all week and nary a crystal of salt on the roads yet. (I’ve only got 2” of snow here at the apt so far this winter)

”BTW, every modern car has lost it’s luster for me… what can I say.”

You and I both. I can’t remember the last modern car that captured my imagination. Probably the new targa that came out in 2012-2015-ish  (?) Prior to that the 92 RS America. (And my 92 968) The car I’m jonesing for the most right now is an 89 BMW 318is. Basically a 2002tii with 2005 pricing.

@550 Phil posted:

But why an Ecoboost.

Same as my aircooled Type I fetish; out of respect for the I4 heritage of the AC Ace. And i think a 310-350hp motor would be plenty in a 2500lb car.

Although I have to admit, an old school 289 with quad Webers would be pretty cool.

@Kevin - Bay Area posted:

I have one friend with a real 427 cobra...

... Another friend purchased a 63 289

You have different friends than I have, Kevin.

I've got friends with F250s. Some of them have F350s. My fabricator has an F450.

I'm just a wannabe man with a 1500 Silverado -- but I've got load range Es on it and a little baby 3.0 turbodiesel. It's got 495 l/ft of torque, but that just makes it "kinda' cute" in this part of the world.

Someday I'll be a real boy!

I've never even seen a real Cobra (or a real 356 Speedster, for that matter).

@Stan Galat what I learned is that at the end of the day, we are all car guys.
It doesn’t matter the value of the car, they are driven all the same. The way it should be.

Ok, I'll bite.  What is a "lister"?

It’s a guy on a cruise ship that is having issues standing up… List….er

@howdo posted:

Ok, I'll bite.  What is a "lister"?

Lister. A UK tuning outfit that made Sports racers with various power plants, most famously Jaguars and Chevy V8s, like Chuck Becks replica.

@Stan Galat posted:

In other news, this car sold today for $44K

This happens nearly every week on BaT.

I mean, seriously.

@dlearl476 posted:

Same as my aircooled Type I fetish; out of respect for the I4 heritage of the AC Ace. And i think a 310-350hp motor would be plenty in a 2500lb car.

Although I have to admit, an old school 289 with quad Webers would be pretty cool.

There's a guy running what I think is a Factory Five Cobra with and EcoBoost 4 in the Reading Hill Climbs. It's fast, and it sounds so legit running by my corner that just about every year I have to be reminded that it's a four-banger.

@Marty Grzynkowicz posted:

These things look tough and are fun to do burnouts in, but that’s where the love affair ends for me.  That is not a car I’d wanna be touring in.

I dunno', Marty.

Everybody knows you're an EyeTalian driving-glove guy with good taste, a bespoke Alfa, and tasteful residences in suburban Chi-gago and Naples Beach.

I'm a hairless ape with a bad back and fake knees, living in ghetto Morton. You eat bruschetta (you made) for brunch -- I try to time my day to get gas and a $1.50 hotdog and Diet Pepsi down at Costco before the Mexican drywall crews come in and hog all the picnic tables.

I'm not sure I couldn't learn to love a $44k Cobra with a Coyote 5.0.

I remember how little I liked the looks of the 356 before I started hangin' with you guys.  One trip to Carlisle was all it took to turn that around.

There are a LOT of roadsters that I love the looks of, now including Speedsters.  Having to choose by looks would be impossible.  Choosing by how it would be to live with would be much easier.  The Speedster/Convertible D/Roadster is pretty much the sweet spot, although there are certainly others that would fit as well, if I had a chance to try them out.  For example, I've always loved the looks of the Lancia Aurelia B24 Spider America, but those go for around seven figures so, um, not gonna happen.

It’s a testament to how much I love 50’s P cars after doing all the research I did and still sticking with the P cars. I guess I did build a Caterham Super 7 after my 2nd Spyder. Didn’t keep it long. Chuck scared the sh*t out of me in the Lister. Saw lots of Cobras but never drove one. The force of the 50’s P car is strong. Obviously I settled on this Roadster.

Cobras are basically the ultimate American Boy Hotrod Monstrosity. They check all the boxes, including the engineering/development boxes. With the Cobra, Carroll did what any of us would have done, only moreso.

Step 1: Start with a small light six-cylinder roadster and overpower it with a V8.

Step 2: Bigger V8.

Step 3: MUCH BIGGER V8. _{(and also some chassis mods)}

Step 4: SUPERCHARGE IT! TWICE!!

Now it's 1967 and you have 800 HP in a 2400-pound chassis. It's basically undriveable, for anyone but you—a LeMans-winning professional hot shoe.

You make two or three of these and move on with your life. But, this is America. Flattery ensues.

Fewer than 1000 Cobras were made, and that would not do. American men know that what is needed, always, is more. And so we get to work cloning these legendary machines. A car you would see maybe once in a decade became something there are three or four of at every car show. But: more.

The originals were too small for us Corn-fed yeomen. The clones needed to be (most of them) stretched. Widened. And, of course, given more torque. If a 427 is "good," a 445ci "Godzilla" motor is better, right? Or how about a 460? Maybe a 572? Yes! Make it a 572!!

Gentlemen, this is the story of our lives and of our nation. More is more; too much is just right; turn it up to 11 and then crank that up some more. Torque it down until the bolt strips, then spin it with the air gun until it welds itself together again.

It is this ideal and this aesthetic that got us into this mess and, by God Almighty, this ideal and this aesthetic is what we're gonna employ to get us out of it.

@Stan Galat posted:

I dunno', Marty.

Everybody knows you're an EyeTalian driving-glove guy with good taste, a bespoke Alfa, and tasteful residences in suburban Chi-gago and Naples Beach.

I'm a hairless ape with a bad back and fake knees, living in ghetto Morton. You each eat bruschetta (you made) for brunch -- I try to time my day to get gas and a $1.50 hotdog and Diet Pepsi down at Costco before the Mexican drywall crews come in and hog all the picnic tables.

I'm not sure I couldn't learn to love a $44k Cobra with a Coyote 5.0.

LOL!!!  I did drive one and there is no doubt that the engine is intoxicating. I will borrow yours to do some burnouts and jam some Judas or Metallica.   

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@edsnova posted:

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...Step 1: Start with a small light six-cylinder roadster and overpower it with a V8.

Step 2: Bigger V8.

Step 3: MUCH BIGGER V8. _{(and also some chassis mods)}

Step 4: SUPERCHARGE IT! TWICE!!...

...The originals were too small for us Corn-fed yeomen. The clones needed to be (most of them) stretched. Widened. And, of course, given more torque. If a 427 is "good," a 445ci "Godzilla" motor is better, right? Or how about a 460? Maybe a 572? Yes! Make it a 572!!...

Ed has been known to occasionally resort to hyperbole to make his point and, if I'm not mistaken, that's what he's doing here.

Normally, I would prefer a calm and factual discussion, but this may be one of those rare occasions when what's needed is more hyperbole.

After posting above, I thought a little more about local Cobra sightings, and realized I do see them on the road a little, but, strangely, it always seems to be on the freeway, not the rural two-lanes where I like driving the Speedster. For me, the freeway is an unavoidable transit zone to good driving country. It's on the two-lanes where I find most of the other car guys out for a nice Tuesday drive. But my recollection is that's just the opposite for Cobra drivers.

So, I went YouTubing in search of some real-world Cobra driving video, and (I swear) this is the first thing I found. Not only does it confirm my impression of how most Cobras I've ever encountered are driven, but just as in the Gospel according to Ed, it's a Cobra driver for whom 430 hp was nowhere near enough.

As for those fat rear tires, smoke 'em if you got 'em.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

Glorious.

Yep. Fighting for position on the Merritt Parkway in Fairfield County CT on a crisp December afternoon is best done in a 600hp roadster and is, indeed, the highest and best use of such a conveyance.

Here's the thing:

Isn't this a big tent, or does the tent have certain limits of one's own arrogance?

I'd love to hoon that Cobra(with earplugs in of course!). I'd also love to flog Ron Mullis' Raby-powered 911S, and also Marty's Alfa. I'd even like to give IamRay's Scooby IM a good caning.

But I don't want to own any of those cars. But to all the folks that own them: ROCK ON!

Frankly I enjoy hooning my HAL9000 BMW as much as my old Speedster.  Yeah, the tent's pretty big.

I realize I'm touching the idol here -- this is a website dedicated to replica Speedsters and Spyders, after all. However, we have always declared this to be a big tent (as Danny points out).

But around here, there seems to be a pretty narrow view of what's an acceptable conveyance -- a orthodoxy more rigid than a lot of religions, with one true path we ALL must walk or we're heathens: AMERICANS (*gasp*) OF THE WORST SORT!

I guess I continue to be surprised to find that the "big tent" only extends as far as some guys' tender sensibilities. Religions are like that sometimes. I think we display more than a little a bit of middle-class snobbery (and no small amount of fundamentalism) to opine that OUR kind of fun is better than THIER kind of fun.

The thing is, it's always the proletariat American luxuries that come under judgement and it gets more than a bit tiresome. Pickup trucks. 600 hp V8 replicas. Big houses. And so on and so forth. We swoon over a $250k EUROPEAN cars with 600 hp, as being somehow refined and in good taste -- but turn up our noses at a Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye Demon, as if we'd rather step in something the dog left than even consider that it might be noteworthy. I'm not sure how to break it to you, but it's all just different flavors of the same thing.

It's kind of elitist and weird coming from a bunch of guys who own and operate glorified dune buggies with fancy lawnmower engines. I would think we were WAY too lowbrow for that kind of nonsense. That's just Jr. High cattiness.

I like driving a slow car fast, but make no mistake -- these cars are on the slow end of the spectrum, especially given their current valuations (we are, after all, talking about $30,000 engines making a whopping 200 hp). Most sane people don't want to stretch that far for a tiny car that's slower than their wife's minivan. That's not an indictment of anybody, that's just a statement of fact.

I'd also prefer to operate my car only in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada range (on sunny days with temperatures between 65 and 75 deg), but I don't live in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada range. I live in 'murica, where it's pretty flat and boring. Getting anywhere else in any reasonable amount of time means spending time (sometimes a LOT of time) on divided highways. I'm not sure what the point is in diminishing people who build a vehicle suitable for operation on Interstate highways. I recognize reality, and therefore my personal white whale is something capable of being equally comfortable cruising for 14 hrs on I80 or bombing through the Pisgah National Forrest. I’ve spent an insane amount of time and treasure on this quixotic pursuit.

I don't know -- but I still think it's a big tent. If we're OK following a thread for a 6+ year Alfa Romeo restoration, we should be OK understanding Florida Man wanting a 1000 hp Cobra. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a single thing wrong with it.

You do you.

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.@DannyP posted:

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...But I don't want to own any of those cars...

And, for me at least, that's the point.

Despite what we may fantasize about, our Speedsters and Spyders are what we've brought home and introduced to the folks.

They're not fast or practical or cheap, but they check more of the boxes than anything else and are easy enough to live with, if only just.

The Toyota-driving world thinks all car guys are nuts, and we probably are to some extent, so if someone is making fun of me for obsessing over an overpriced fiberglass confection, I can smirk a little with no guilt over some butthead playing Carroll Shelby on the Merritt Parkway.

It's a big tent — all neuroses welcome.

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I used to have that elitist attitude(and a narrow scope of what a Spyder should be).

My level of tolerance has risen the last couple years. Do I like diamond-tufted upholstery? NOPE! Do I think that dude should have painted his new Beck Spyder purple? Not for me. Totally original looks/features? Who are you trying to fool?

Whatever you do to a Spyder, at the end of the day it's just a replica. It really doesn't matter.

But it's not my jam, it's somebody else's. Nobody cares what I think.

Except I REALLY don't like Perry Ds. They make me twitch. You're gonna know I'm not a fan. They're like a Salvador Dalí interpretation of a 550, on drugs. Man, you gotta squint HARD on those.

I've done a lot of interstate duty in my Spyder in the past. I've driven it to Carlisle on numerous occasions, and in all weather conditions. I've taken the Jersey Turnpike THE WHOLE WAY and down to multiple locations in Maryland. And I've driven that tiny little thing in the "trucks only" side, because those dudes drive BETTER. I cruise at 80 to 85, and have been up to 125 mph(yes, really, GPS speedo). 80 mph is about 3500 rpm, so no sweat at all. I prefer twisty two-lane, but I can cruise to places. What's wrong with that?

I’m with you on the Perry D, the proportions are all wrong, but once I found out what these were,* I gained a whole new appreciation of them.

*It’s a copy of one of the Glöckler 356 rebodies that some guy made in his back yard. From what I could find about them, he made about 20 of them. They went on a full-sized VW pan.  

@Sacto Mitch posted:

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Ed has been known to occasionally resort to hyperbole to make his point and, if I'm not mistaken, that's what he's doing here.

Normally, I would prefer a calm and factual discussion, but this may be one of those rare occasions when what's needed is more hyperbole.

After posting above, I thought a little more about local Cobra sightings, and realized I do see them on the road a little, but, strangely, it always seems to be on the freeway, not the rural two-lanes where I like driving the Speedster. For me, the freeway is an unavoidable transit zone to good driving country. It's on the two-lanes where I find most of the other car guys out for a nice Tuesday drive. But my recollection is that's just the opposite for Cobra drivers.

So, I went YouTubing in search of some real-world Cobra driving video, and (I swear) this is the first thing I found. Not only does it confirm my impression of how most Cobras I've ever encountered are driven, but just as in the Gospel according to Ed, it's a Cobra driver for whom 430 hp was nowhere near enough.

As for those fat rear tires, smoke 'em if you got 'em.

.

Can you imagine that guy driving that like this? (Sorry, the video isn’t a normal video, it’s some sort of BaT upload that isn’t shareable. Check out the driving video.
https://bringatrailer.com/list...he-968-club-sport-2/

This is how I liked to drive my Spyder and 968. I can’t imagine trying to do this in a 500hp Cobra.

@dlearl476 posted:

Can you imagine that guy driving that like this?

Actually, yes.

I’d have it off in the weeds before I knew what was happening, I’m sure.

Don't have to imagine it.  It is very similar to our mountains drives, but perhaps a bit less twisty.

@dlearl476 posted:

I’m with you on the Perry D, the proportions are all wrong, but once I found out what these were,* I gained a whole new appreciation of them.

*It’s a copy of one of the Glöckler 356 rebodies that some guy made in his back yard. From what I could find about them, he made about 20 of them. They went on a full-sized VW pan.  

Just, NO.

It's a stretch limo interpretation of something??? Look how absolutely horrid the front wheel arch is.

It looks like the poor Spyder was put onto a medieval torture rack. And they didn't even have any mercy to put it out of its misery. Just stretched it and left it.

Glöckler Spyders aren't pretty, but they are small and short and gloriously LIGHT.(They were built on a tube frame, not rebodied.)

Genius.

Then Porsche copied the concept and made the wallflower into the pretty girl.

reminds me of my 67 427 Vette, convertible and side pipes,solids...super fast and loud.