Unhappy with my steering

My Ghia wanders a bit as well. My Speedster doesn't. On both I changed the front tie-rods, brake conversion and shocks. The gas shocks that I put in were horrible way too stiff and cheap oil shocks are awesome. But on the GHIA I found that when I lifted the front of the car the wheels were a little slow to come down as if something was keeping the shock compressed.

This as it turns out is the front beam. There are 4 grease nipples here and they need to be pumped FULL until grease pops out of the ends. I did that on the GHIA and some water came out before the grease. So I am sure that in my case the wandering is due to the front beam. The ball joints are under tension here and this can greatly affect road worthiness. I will need to bring this to a mechanic one day to check and I assume this means changing the whole front beam. Which is a lot of work but not too expensive.

Lambros, The VW chsssis is equiped with a steering Damper stabilizer. It might be worn out. OR the front end alignment may be out of wack. It the front wheels are toed out it will give you the wandering . Too much caster will make the car want to turn when you are going straight and you take your hands off the wheel. The car will want to turn. Try an alignment shop. Any vibration up in front?

Mike and Joe
Thanks a lot for your input.

Mike do you think if I fill up the 4 nipples things will get better?

Joe there is no vabration on the front end.

Can anyone tell me the alignment data please?

Are the same as on the beetle? Even so, do you have the figures?

Thanks in advance

Ignacio

ignacio, Use the cheap test. Throw a 150lbs in the trunk
(if you can fit it, sand bags?) and see what happens. These cars are lighter than what the suspensions were designed for so they ride a bit higher. I've been in a kit car at 120 miles per hour (sterling with porsche 6) using a vw pan and it was rock steady. I've also owned quite a few bugs that wandered all over the road and were greatly effected by tire pressure, tire width etc.. I used to stagger the tire psi by lowering the front psi a few lbs. It seemed to cut down the "wander". good luck.

I do not like my steering.I have replaced my shocks,tie rods, and my front tires still like to "wander".Do you have any idea what is wrong with it? What do I need to do to make the front end stable? Thanks in advance.

Mine wandered and it was one bushing in the beam. I could move the trailing arm ever so slightly in the beam. Take a long, strong bar and pry on the various suspension areas being careful not to bust anything. They say there should be no movement.

I replaced my beam, as I was going to a coil over set up and couldn't use the adjustable unit, and now no problems.

EAstwood sells a cheap little unit for setting toe in, about $40, and I uses that to set the car up.

Brian

Years ago I stripped a '66 911S down to be repainted (after some rust repair, of course!) Found two heavy weights -- one in each front bumper corner! They must have weghted a good 150#. Assume they were there to counteract the relatively heavy engine in the tail.

Wolfgang,

I KNOW! Aren't those weights cool? I saw them on a car at the junk yard some time ago and thought that I'd stumbled onto a factory racer or something. They're on all the cars I guess . . .

Lambros:

Getting this thread back on track, yes, additional weight on the front end of Speedster is always good, especially at higher highway speeds. However, you probably don't need 150 lbs. hung out there. The weight of a battery in the front well and a spare tire is usually enough to hold it down below 90 mph or so. If the front end height is properly set, these cars do not ride higher than the orriginal beetles - they are lower, in fact. They DO have, however, a stiffer spring rate per the weight involved, because the fiberglass bodies are a bit lighter than the Beetle donor.

What you're probably seeing is a mild form of "bump steer", which is a pretty common malady if the front end doesn't have adequate toe-in. If the wheels are set straight (without toe-in) and then approach a bump (or a long, but very slight hump in the pavement) on one wheel more than the other, then the car will pull either left or right, depending on which side of the tire the hump appears on, as it tries to follow the hump.

How to fix this? Easy - get your front end aligned by a professional to the specs for your year pan (they vary a bit between king pin and ball joint front ends) and that should fix it.

BTW: I have a 1969 pan based CMC with only a battery and spare tire up front and it tracks straight all the time and doesn't get really light until over 90.

You can check the front end toe-in yourself by using the tricks from the "Rob and Dave" web site. Look here: www.vw-resource.com/toe_in_adjustment.html

gn

Gordon

Thanks a lot for the info.The front end was aligned by a pro 2 weeks ago when I replaced my tie rods and still have the same problem.I am thinking of changing the steering damper or the axle beam or the power steering box?I do not know what to think.I guess I will have to take it back to the shop again.

The alignment guy should have given you his print-out (if he was using a Hunter, Bear or Sun alignment system - others I'm not sure about) so you can see if it's set to 1/8" toe-in or not. He should also have checked for loose tie-rod ends and excessive end-play in the connecting bits and should not have set the alignment if anything was too loose.

Also, did you ask for a 4-wheel alignment? Toe-in is set on the rear wheels by using small shims on the mounting hub. Doesn't give a lot of adjustment, but a little is all you need back there. Maybe something back there is out a little, but I doubt that would cause wandering, although it's possible.

Lastly, how much play is there in the steering wheel? With the car stopped on level ground, there should be between 1/2" to 1" back and forth play at the rim of the steering wheel. More and it may wander. This is easily adjustable. In fact, TC just did a post a month or so ago outlining exactly how to do it. It's done in two co-related steps and can be easily done on a Speedster. I doubt that you'll have to swap the steering box out if it can be adjusted, and front beams have to be severely distorted to cause mis-alignment of this nature - you could probably see that by looking at it. Remember that the steering on these cars is pretty quick - just a nudge on the wheel makes it move a lot.

"... front end was aligned by a pro 2 weeks ago" --- they usually give you a computerized print out of the settings before and after they adjust the suspension. Can ya post it? I have found some tire places that also do alignments seem to only address toe in/toe out when there are also camber/caster adjustments that can/should be made. Doubt you have a "power steering box" --- as light as front end is you don't need power steering. Steering box could have some play in it -- but it can be adjusted (see a Haynes-Clymer book) if its not worn out. The damper is <$20 and easily installed plus it does not require realignment.

Lambros, do you have alot of play in the steering wheel? You can adjust the steering box to remove some of the play.

Gordon,Wolfgang,Joe thanks again.
I did not get a print out(I didn't know I should get one)plus the shop owner didn't offer one either.Should i go back and ask for one? About the steering play,it is between the limits.I will try to install a new damper this weekend and see if it will fix the problem.Thanx again.

If your front suspension is lowered with the beam adjusters you may need to use shims (lowered spindles don't need these) and longer bolts --- there are also different camber adjusters that allow more adjustment than stock too. Found these settings on web as recommended ones:

FRONT
-1 deg camber (negative camber) /--\
3 deg caster
5mm (3/16

I am not happy with my steering either. What options do I have to upgrade my front beam? I have a pan based VS and I would like to get away from the adjutable beam.

If you don't want an adjustable front beam, then you kinda have to go with dropped spindles and hope that the front end is at the correct height that you want when you're all done.

There are a bunch of places offering dropped spindles, and you can start with CB performance, see what they've got and go from there.

Do you currently have a anti-sway bar? If not try adding one first - can also get for the rear. Dropped spindles are only option to adjustable beam. They drop the front 2.5" only --- so you may want to keep the adjustable beam for fine tuning. They do widen the front stanceby about 1/2" either side. If you don't already have front disc brakes - get the entire kit with the dropped spindles.

Does anyone know how to adjust the rear wheels, I managed to do the front ones but didn't find a way to adjust the rear ones and one of them is way off...

The car runs a lot better now but I notice that when driving in the highway and lifting the foot from the accelerator the car tends to do left and right and left and so on doing Ss. The spare tire was not in the car and it does not have a front anti-sway bar but I don't know if those would help

Thanks,

Ignacio

By the way I followed Wolfgang's settings...

Ignacio wrote: "... didn't find a way to adjust the rear ones and one of them is way off..."

Way off in what dimension?? What type of rear end do you have? - Swing arm, IRS, JLO ;>)

Typically, unless you're looking for very small rear adjustments, which are done with small shims, you've probably got something back there that's bent and needs replacement. It takes a lot to bend the rear suspension components, but it happens. If it's "way off" I would look for a bent piece.

BTW: Having one rear wheel out of adjustment will often cause strange steering and tracking - like getting a grocery cart with a bent wheel and trying to make it go straight down th aisle.......

A couple of years ago the topic of alignment came up - here's what GB had to say:
"I will be running - 1.5 deg. negative camber front, 2.0 deg. neg. cmbr rear, with 1/8" toe in for the fronts with 0 toe in/out for the rear. The 1/8" front toe out may tend to cause "plowing" (understeer).
The most important thing is to get camber for both front wheels set the same and both rear wheels set the same (or as close as possible)."

To view the entire thread, do a search for:
Front Sway Bar and Rear Suspension Upgrade

I'll tell you the figures in a while, I have to go down the garage in a while and I have the alignment print out in the car, as for what rear end my car has, I have no idea, I am kind of new to speedsters or beetles and I have no clue, but I can tell you the donor was a '74 superbeetle (VW 1303) as I saw the chasis number stamped at the back of the chasis while I was restoring it *1342605802*.

I don't know if this picture might help, but it is the only one I have of a part of the rear end, while I was installing new shocks.

Ok here are the figures I have in my car after the alignment:

FRONT WHEELS
4.80mm toe in (LEFT WHEEL +2.40;RIGHT WHEEL +2.40)
LEFT WHEEL -0

Ignacio wrote:
"FRONT WHEELS
4.80mm toe in (LEFT WHEEL +2.40;RIGHT WHEEL +2.40)
LEFT WHEEL -0

Thanks Gordon for the info, I'll try to visit some salvage yards and see what I can find in there, by the way, did you figure out what rear end my car has from the info I gave here, and more importantly what range of years should I look for in salvage yards if you know.

Thanks again

Oh! Sure.....

You have what is called an "Independant Rear Suspension" or IRS. Introduced in 1969 on VW's and continued forever after that, from Germany to Brazil to Mexico. Must be Zillions of them out there, and as far as I know, they're all the same from '69 on.

Just look closely at a salvage car to see if there is any damage to the pan just in front of the wheel on that side, or obvious damage to the strut - that would indicate an accident/bendage and not one you want.

gn