Update on Joel Roth's Beck Super Coupe

Wowsa!!

wow!...soon to be another SUPER COUPE to make my car & others of ours obsolete...but in a totally awesome way..... looking forward to pictures and videos with sound!!

Where are you in the queue, Joel?

Ask him if he can include the ABS and traction control from a 996 as well. You’re going to need it. You’re going to end up with more rear bias than a 911.

Seriously, I’d invest in a Porsche Experience so you can size up the difference between high powered mid-engines vs rear engines Porsches before you invest that kind of money in what will no doubt be a stunning car.

That is, unless you’re familiar with the issues. In that case, “Never mind.”

Sounds like a fantastic car, Joel. If you go for it, treat it respect, just like an early 930. The back end will come around. Cheers!

If the car is built properly, with correct suspension enhancements, it will be a dream to drive.  The rear weight bias can be easily overcome with the proper set up. 

I don't have traction control, nor do I have ABS.  I do have a 3.6 engine from a 1995 993.  Intermeccanica built this car to handle that weight and power, and I am sure Carey will do the same.  Get fat enough tires on the rear, sway bars front and back , a well balanced chassis, and the issue of the back end coming around, pretty well disappears.  It's all about making the car beefy enough to handle the weight and the power.

Obviously, good disc brakes are needed, as is rack and pinion steering.  Maybe Carey can source 911 components for the build, as Henry did with mine.

Enjoy the build, Joel.

Thank-you guys for all your comments.

First, I believe I am #14 in the Que and they are up to 8 or 9.  So mine should start soon.

Second, I will ask Carey about whether he can add ABS and Traction Control from the 911. They source a used 911 for the engine and transmission, so since ABS and Traction Control  are already part of the 911 they may very well be able to include them. Either way I will ask and let you guys known.

Third, for those not familiar with the Beck Super Coupe it is my understanding Carey has extended the body and the wheelbase approximately 2"-3". He uses 2x4 steel tube chassis with 1x2 lateral bracing and a center tunnel. It has a double A frame front suspension with adjustable coil overs. For those of you that know Chuck and have followed their limited releases on the Coupe development, you know that this was a LONG part of the development process and they achieved a PROPER suspension geometry with virtually 0 bump steer. They also use an inverted A-frame trailing arm rear suspension with 4 link and adjustable coil overs. Manual rack and pinion steering. Standard Beck steering column with crush coupler. Standard Beck 4 wheel disc brakes with track brake packages available upon request. (I am requesting it).

So, knowing Carey, the car will be built and set up to handle the weight and power.

Yes, I am very excited and can't wait to get the car. I was not planning on Tracking the car, but I am having them install a roll bar just in case I change my mind.

Now for colors, I am thinking of going with a Graphite Gray or Slate Gray exterior and an Oxblood or English Tan/Saddle interior. What do you think?

Joel

Yeah, what Robert said!  I'm sure you already realize it, but a lot of good points being made above, especially about making sure it will handle predictably and it will stop.  It's gonna be very cool...

Hopefully he can fulfill all your wishes.

Carey is a super builder so if it gets to be like Bob's IM-6 his is a beauty wih full 911 suspension.

300hp is plenty in a 2000 lb car. congrats

I commend you for getting the roll bar.  It also provides a way to mount headrests, although that would restrict access to the rear seat/luggage area if you do so.  You can skip the 4-point harnesses I have if you aren't going to track it.

I seriously doubt that Carey can add ABS and traction control.  The electronics just get awfully complex real fast.  I'm still tweaking the suspension setup on mine, but you probably won't need sway bars.  I have yet to experience noticeable body roll and I am not sure where you'd put them anyway.  These are little cars and things get crowded underneath rather quickly.

I have found some minor issues of the sort Carey and I expected, and have implemented (or am in the process of doing so) solutions that will make their way into production.  The car is evolving quickly from something really special to something really spectacular.

Lane:

Please keep me updated on any issues you find with your car and the fixes or  solutions.

Joel

Bob:

What size wheels and tires are you running front and back?

Any pictures of your car? I would love to see it.

Joel

Will do, Joel.

@Joel Roth @Bob: IM S6

Bob will have to give you the specs on his tires, but here's a video of his build:

https://youtu.be/JtWj9LEKELc

Thanks for making that video, Gordon.

Joel.  Since the video, I have changed the wheels to custom made Fuch lookalikes.  8" rear, 6" front.

Tires are  205/50-17 front,  225/45-17 rear.

Here are some shots.  With the 911 components, the car is a blast to drive.

Wow, Bob's car is beautiful. Would love to see it one day in person.

Joel

I am using a lot of the same design elements. But my car will be a little more Outlaw looking. Deleted front and rear bumpers. I am going with Fuchs replicas as well, Black centers with polished rims, front Driving lights and Fog lights, Stone guards on the headlights, hood straps, center mount gas filler and cap, as well as the Raydot mirrors and Bee Hive Taillights and twin center mounted exhaust. Also installing a Roll bar with an X brace if they can fit it in.

Joel

Sounds sweet.  That should be a fantastic looking build. 

One thing I should have put on mine was external engine lid hinges.

I have seen them on some of the Emory Outlaw builds.  Just a little extra for the look.

Visible hinges are ok if you need or want to access the engine easier, but really fit the outlaw look coupes like Emory cars.
Bob you also have LEd beehives from CuLayered I think they are a great LED company to deal with.

Joel the option list will grow if we have our way here . The list members can help you spend your money

More to the point I wish I had been part of the list earlier As I might have had a more complete build as there is always something  you don’t think about or you think you won’t need at the moment but when you try it or see it in someone else’s car you realize I should of … that is why we refer to it as the madness as you continue to upgrade it seems forever. Have fun

If you're going for Raydyots make sure you get the convex mirrors, at least on the passenger side.  The field of view is rather small and the convex really helps.  If you plan to mount them forward as I did, get the convex on both sides.

Also, it's worth it to get all LED lights, particularly if you're running bee hives in back.

The one other thing I really need and want is a comfortable seat and a nice looking interior/dash.

The standard speedster seats are not comfortable. In the Mid-engine Coupe there is very limited amount of room so Carey suggested using the seats from the 904 which are nicer and more comfortable. But now that we are going with a rear engine mount I was thinking that maybe we can use an early 911 sport seats that is a little bigger and more comfortable but will not look too modern and out of place. Maybe with gromets as well. I

I also picked out a set of traditional black faced with white numbers and red tipped indicators and polished bezel gauges from Speedhut. For the main dash I picked 3  4" gauges. Center Tach, 180 MPH Speedo on the Left, and a Quad gauge with fuel/volts/water temp and oil pressure (that how they make it). Then in the center dash I am going to mount the A/C controls on top centered, and below that two gauges 2 5/8" a clock and oil temp gauge and the radio below.

The other option was to use just the Tach and Speedo left and right of the steering wheel and instead of the quad gauge go with all individual gauges. Maybe mount the fuel gauge in between the Speedo and Tach and in the center a row of 3 2 1/16" gauges of water temp/oil temp/oil pressure and below the radio in a separate center stack (like what they had in the 914) have the volts/clock and amps.

while waiting U can buy some type Porsche, drive it till urs is ready and sell the Por, they rarely go down in value..

I have a 2020 Jaguar F-Type now. I was going to wait until I get the Porsche and then sell it.

Niiiiiice!  Whadaya want for it?

Lane:

I thought you would like it. I love the color. It called Ultra Blue.  But this is why I do not want my Porsche 356 Super Coupe to be Blue as well.

Joel

OK everyone, I spoke to Carey and he indicated that ABS and Traction Control are not doable and if they were they would be cost prohibitive. So take that out of your thought process.

Now as far as the rear weight bias is concerned, Carey told me that while this car is not mid-engine, and is rear engine, the engine and transmission are more forward than in a traditional rear engine application. So, the rear engine effect is not as great as a traditional rear engine location. Plus, Carey indicated they compensate for the weight and rear engine location by increasing the shock dampening and spring rates. The car should handle very similar to the mid engine location but with a lot more power 300-320 HP plus or minus.

Joel

I'm droolin' here, Joel.

As for the Jag, let me know when you're ready to sell and what you want for it.  I am price sensitive, but that's on my list of possible replacements for the BMW.

Reading the build list, I just got a

@Joel Roth posted:

OK everyone, I spoke to Carey and he indicated that ABS and Traction Control are not doable and if they were they would be cost prohibitive. So take that out of your thought process.

Joel

I’m sorry Joel, was was being facetious when I suggested that. I guess my “You kids get off my lawn” old-guy-itis was coming out.

Full disclosure: I’m a mid-engine guy. Yes, there are millions of things you can do to make a rear-engined car handle better. Porsche racers have been doing it for decades. But they’ll never be better than a mid-engined car with close to a 50/50 weight balance.

I’d venture a guess that Danny’s Spyder passes (and pisses off) a lot of guys in $100K+ 911s on a track day.

Fwiw, after battling the laws of physics for 75 years, even Porsche saw the light: the newest 911 RSRs are now mid-engined.

I’m sure Carey will build you a fantastic car, it’s what he does. But IMO, the mid engine is 90% of the attraction of Super Coupe. But I don’t have a vote.

These are the seats I want to use, but in Oxblood or Saddle Tan to match the rest of the interior depending on which color I chose. They are the copies of the early Porsche Sport Seats.

The wheels are copies of Fuchs.

The Paint color is Porsche Graphite Gray

These are the wheels:

Exterior color Graphite Gray

@dlearl476 posted:

I’d venture a guess that Danny’s Spyder passes (and pisses off) a lot of guys in $100K+ 911s on a track day.

Yeah, I did that at Lime Rock with street touring tires with a 275 pound instructor. Thank goodness LRP is all right turns except one...

Now, I drive my old sub 20k Cayman S and spank some of the new cars hard(hint: it's not the car that is lacking).

@Bob: IM S6 Your car is simply sublime!

@Joel Roth You're making good choices.

I am not planning on Tracking or Racing the car. I am sure the mid-engine version will handle better all things being equal.

However, for me the attraction to the Beck Super Coupe was not so much the mid-engine layout but rather the overall look of the car and the fact that it was not being built on a shortened VW Bug chassis/pan. It has  a custom built square tube chassis and  a double A frame front suspension with adjustable coil overs and an inverted A-frame trailing arm rear suspension with 4 link and adjustable coil overs.

But most important to me was the Company itself and the people who are building my car. Beck and Carey have a great reputation. They build great cars. They  bend over backwards to accommodate their customers. You ask them something and they give you a straight answer.

I asked them to build me a Super Coupe with a Porsche engine and transmission and they told me they could do it. First, we were going to use a Boxster 3.2 S engine and a 5 speed transmission in the mid-engine version. Initially, we ran into some "problems" with getting an ECU that would work because they had to bypass the immobilizer. It took a lot of digging but they were able to do it. Someone else would have just said it can't be done. Not Carey.

When Carey told me about a 1-off rear engine version they were building for another customer and offered to build one for me but with a Porsche engine and transmission, I switched for the added legroom and interior space (I am 6'2"). At the same time, without me even asking Carey told me that because of the added room by moving the engine to the rear they could use a Porsche 911 engine (996) and the 6 speed transmission.

Plus, I have to admit that I actually like the overall look of the rear engine car better with the  rear seats and with the rear engine. Now, when you open the engine lid you actually see an engine, and in my car it will be a Porsche 911 motor.

They are a class act. The best.

Joel

You do you and don’t worry about anybody else.  It’s going to be a spectacular car.and at 6’ 2” you would not be comfortable in a mid-engine Coupe.

Interior space and legroom in the mid engine Super Coupe was always a concern of mine. That was why I wanted to come up to Charleston for a "test fit" in your car. But when Carey told me that the customer they were building the rear engine car for was 6'3" and they had to move the seat forward, I switched immediately.

Don't get me wrong the mid engine Super Coupe is a great car. I love mid engine cars. But for me the rear engine Super Coupe is much better. After all, whatever car you buy you have to fit in it and be comfortable, otherwise what's the point?

@Joel Roth posted:

Interior space and legroom in the mid engine Super Coupe was always a concern of mine. That was why I wanted to come up to Charleston for a "test fit" in your car. But when Carey told me that the customer they were building the rear engine car for was 6'3" and they had to move the seat forward, I switched immediately.

Don't get me wrong the mid engine Super Coupe is a great car. I love mid engine cars. But for me the rear engine Super Coupe is much better. After all, whatever car you buy you have to fit in it and be comfortable, otherwise what's the point?

^ That. All day long, that.

Your car is going to be fantastic.

my 17P is graphite blue metallic(2017-18) its gorgeous in the right light(thats not my car:{)

@barncobob posted:

my 17P is graphite blue metallic(2017-18) its gorgeous in the right light(thats not my car:{)

I almost didn't open the picture, Bob, I'm so over the "blue phase" (apologies to those in the middle of it).

But that is a fantastic color. Super serious. Very, very German. I would get my car painted that color, and I don't even like blue.

It's that cool.

F A N T A S T I C.

The Graphite Blue Metallic looks beautiful as well. Who is the cute little guy in your picture?

There were two other Gray's that I saw that I also liked. One was Slate Gray (on the 356) and the other was called Nardo Gray on the 911 (it's actually an Audi color):