Urethane Bushing ride impressions

I've had Urethane torsion bar bushings in the front end of my ball joint car since day one as a Speedster and I love 'em.

Now that we're rebuilding another IRS pan (from a 1971 Sedan) I'm thinking of using Urethane bushings on the rear control (diagonal) arms and on the torsion bars, too.

Anyone else running them on an IRS rear?

How about urethane transmission mount bushings?

What are your driving and ride impressions? Before and after impressions would be terrific, but I'll take whatever I can get!

I'm worried that they'll be TOO stiff and make the ride seem harsh, but I don't know what other people think. I've heard that using Urethanes back there, especially on the tranny mount, make it SO stiff that it'll rattle your teeth out but I've never knowingly ridden in a car with them.

Any comments out there??

Thanks, Gordon and Chris

I've always had noise issues even with the correct grease. In the last few builds, I have returned to the stock type. Alan

I'm putting the urethane bushings in my new narrowed rear so I'll let you know when I'm done. I was hoping to get started this week but I just don't have the time. Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll get this project done.
I too am curious about the trans bushing. I'll be installing a new motor and trans sometime in the next 4-6 weeks so I'd like to hear what others have to say as well.

A year or so ago I had the engine out and the transaxle to replace a backup light switch. I mentioned it to Henry and asked his opinion about changing the mounts while I had the trans out. He warned me away from anything but the VW part numbered mounts.

If you are not going to be tracking your car, I can't imagine why you would want such firm, non-compliant bushings or mounts.

They seem to make noise, or not, but if they do make noise, it seems you just can't get rid of it no matter what you do.

They will drive you crazy!!!!

Go stock.

--HIJACK--

Mickey, are you narrowing your rear so it'll fit into the Speedster seats better?

(Sometimes I just can't help it)

--END HIJACK--

Mine are noisy most of the time except after a fresh treatment of a penetrating lubricant. I've gotten used to the squeaking, but I'm always afraid of what somebody who hasn't ridden in the car will think when we take a spin. I guess it's just the way they are so no big deal.

I have urethane on my rear torsion bars, IRS arms and trans mounts.

I haven't finished my car yet, so I can't report on them.

I would be interested to hear more too.

Lately I have noticed these trans mounts:

http://www.vwparts.net/CB6212.html .

I put the red trans. mounts before Carlisle. Haven't noticed any difference but have since been warned to keep an eye out for cracking or splitting.

~WB

Well, to sum up....

I got onto the shop Talk forums and the general consensus over there is only go with the stock (VW Rubber) bushing unless you'll be tracking the car, and then ONLY use them on the front (but there were still a couple of autocrossers who would only use stock needle and rollers on the front, too).

Guess that settles it.

Thanks!

gn

Well Crap! The guy at Aircooled told me to only use the urethane ones in the narrowed arms. I guess I'll give em a try and switch em out if they suck.

Lane,
I spit coffee through my nose when I read that! The funny thing is I'm about 5'10" and 155 lbs and the speedster seats are still a little snug. I don't know how some folks fit in those things.

I have to take my wallet out of my back pocket. Then again, 5' 11" and 185# is not exactly skinny.

I used to have to take my wallet out of my back pocket when riding in the Speedster.

Then I retired.

No longer have that problem.

Don't have the stress that went with the job either.

It's worth it...

"Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez!" (Let the good times roll!)

OK, you guys have me reconsidering my urethane trans mounts.

Now that I have foamed in the area under the rear "seat" I don't have easy access to the shift coupling.

If I don't have a shifter installed, can I move the trans back enough to replace the front mount without undoing the coupler?

Thanks.

Maybe, but just barely.

Remove the shift lever and it'll allow the shift rod and tranny to move back as much as you need without removing the coupler. You should get at least three inches of travel before the coupler hits the bulkhead.

BTW: The general consensus is that, unless you're running in excess of 200hp back there, stick with the rubber mount bushing to keep engine and transmission noise down.

gn

What about the shift rod bushing? Won't the shifter cup hit that at some point?

CIP1 and others sell "HD" rubber mounts.

What about those?

CIP1 and others sell "HD" rubber mounts.

What about those?

Bill: There should be over 6-8" before the cup hits the bushing -plenty of room to get the rear mount cushion out.

Mike: Go for it.

gn

Gordon, I can definitely comment on the trans mounts. I had stock rubber, and the engine moved enough that under full acceleration, the fanshroud hit the underside of the engine cover. Greg at Vintage sent me a trans strap custome made for a Spyder and it stopped it most of the time. The other problem was that the shift rod would contact the frame, thus twisting the Jamar linkage, and ruining the side to side adjustment, as in the gate to select first and the reverse lockout. Occasionally I would still have to rotate the Jamar linkage on the trans to fix it. I installed the CB Rhino(yellow) mounts when I had the motor out this spring. I also reinstalled the trans strap and readjusted the linkage(since Carlisle, for those of you that drove the car). It has remained perfect now for 1000 miles.

The difference in feel as far as handling is way better, the rear end feels more connected with no play. The downside is vibration, some through the seat and mostly in the steering wheel. You will notice it, but it's not too bad now that I am accustomed to it. The increased road feel and lack of mush in back makes up for it, IMHO.

Oh yeah, it may not apply to you as I have swingaxle and not IRS.

With IRS, I would think HD German rubber for the trans, you don't want the vibration unless it gives you better handling.

I just ordered the HD mounts from CIP1. They are claimed to be genuine VW but I don't think they are German.

I hope I don't experience what Danny did on his Spyder.

I considered the Rhino mounts, but thought I might not like the vibration.

Thanks, Dan.....gives me something to think about.

I'll be at Chris' tomorrow (Annual 4'th of July fireworks extravaganza and meat incineration) and we can talk about options then. I think I'll be going with stock (rubber) torsion bar bushings, but we'll have to decide the trans mount together, as I don't wuite know, yet, what kind of HP the Golf 1.8L will be putting out.

gn

Digging this one up from the vault. The front mount of my tranny is shot. Trying to figure out what to replace it with, the advice above has helped. I need help from y'all to figure out what I have to do to install it. Does the Transmission have to come out?

Also, I have been planning on installing a Torque Bar for Eyeball Engineering in order to eliminate Frame Horn Flex. If I did, would this help releive the transmission mount at the nose of stress? If so I am imagine I could go with a good rubber mount in lieu of the urethane and keep noise/vibration to a minimum.

Paul

If the back end of you frame is the same as a pan based car, you just need to move the trans back a bit. You probably will have to remove the engine to be able to move the trans back.

I just did this on my car to remove the urethane mounts after I read negative comments about them. I replaced the urethane with heavy duty VW mounts. I pondered using the Rhino mounts.

Mr. McKelvey,

Thanks for the prompt response. Makes sense, just unbolt the transmission from all mounts and should slide back, CV's at axles will allow for movement. Im wondering If I remove the engine tin at the pulley, or perhaps jack the engine up above its fiberglass surround, If I can get enough clearance that I dont have to remove it. I have a very little garage, Just big enough for a Speedster to park, barely room to work. Would Like to avoid dropping an engine and leaving it on the Baltimore sidewalk while making the repairs.

Paul

My engine was already out, so I didn't try it with the engine in the car.

On my CMC the piece between the subframe and engine tin might be big enough that there could be enough movement it it was removed.