vacuum advance and A/C

I want to install a vacuum advance distributor in my 2000 VS. The engine is a 1776 stock with a single PICT34 carb. The problem is that I also have A/C installed.

I got a SVDA distributor from Aircooled.net, which came with very detailed instructions. I turned the engine to TDC, replaced my 009 with the SVDA. Instructions say that I should insert the new distributor with the vacuum advance thing at around 7 o

I have always heard that the stock VW distributor has a built in retard for the third cylinder to keep it from running too hot. I know that the 009 dist. hasn't got this retard, nor the aftermarket distributors like Mallory or the new HEI, etc.

If this is a rumor, then the wire position shouldn't matter as long as the timing is correct. If there is something going on however . . . ?!?

Luck,

TC

Andreas,

You can't just lift out the distributor and drop it back in at 180' because the tangs on the distributor shaft are off set a bit.
Years ago I assembled a VW type 1 engine, in error I set the distributor drive gear 180' out...all I did to get it to run was relocate the plug wires the same 180'.

Alan,

I think I know, what you are talking about. Maybe I was not precise enough (sorry for that).
The distributor shaft will fit only one way in the distributor driveshaft slot. So from the engine there is only one point where number one is firing. But I was hoping that I can rotate the distributor body 90 degrees. If I also rotate the cap (without changing plug wires) the number one spark plug will get ignition at the wrong time. So if I switch back the plug wires so that number one gets ignition when the ignition rotor is pointing to number one - then I should be OK again (well, I was hoping). Or?

TC,

thanks for pointing that out. I forgot to mention that the new SVDA has a points replacement unit from Compufire. Does that change things??

Many thanks,

Andreas

Andreas wrote :
The distributor shaft will fit only one way in the distributor driveshaft slot.

What I am saying is pull the drive out and turn it 180 'drop it back in and then set the distributor back down in, the firing order will now be 180' opposed to what it was...in my head I think it will work ...what 'cha think?

Alan,

You are right - that could work.

I am just back from the garage. I tried to rotate the distributor body. First I tried 180 degrees, but the single carb manifold is in the way. Then I tried a CCW 90 degree rotation.
Now the timing: I have three marks on the pulley. Please correct me, but the left most is TDC, about half an inch to the right are two more, one should be 7.5, the other one 10 degrees. With a simple timing light I was aiming for 7.5 at idle (around 1000rpm). The eninge is running, but it doesn't sound right (I checked the plug wires twice for correct timing order).

So, either the 90 degree rotation is not a good thing, or I just cannot do the timing correct.

Maybe I should put the old 009 back...

Andreas

Try to static time and see what happens...

As I forgot to mention in the beginning, I do have a Compufire unit. The instructions do not recommend timing with a static light, because the unit can ignite the engine, if turned by hand.

Should I install the points into the new SVDA distributor for (static) timing and then switch back to the compufire unit?

Andreas

I think installing the points into the new SVDA distributor for static timing and then switch back to the compufire unit may result in a timing variable, I can't be positive though ..........
Anyone else ? ?

Hey guys.....been away from the forum chasing hurricanes down South.......Alan's right.

You can pull the Distributor geared drive shaft out of the case straight up through the distributor shaft hole and then drop it back in at about 20 degree increments (I'm guessing at that). The trick is getting it more or less where you want it in relation to TDC.

Before you fish the drive shaft out, note where the off-set tang is down in the bottom of the hole, then, just when it comes to the top of the hole, not the difference in position. It turns a bit on the way out (to release it from the cam drive gear) and you'll have to have that tang advanced about that much BEFORE dropping it back in so it'll bottom out more or less where you want it. Takes a little figuring out, some patience and luck, but I'm sure you can get it where you want it.

Then, forget about static timing it. Line up TDC on the crankshaft, and then rotate the Disti body so that the rotor points at the tiny timing mark on the side of the Disti housing for #1 TDC and that's good enough to get it started, after you put the cap back on (with #1 plug wire lined up with that tiny mark on the lip of the disti housing). Then, time it at 6 degrees before TDC to start and see how it runs. You can try more or less advance later and see if it "pings" on mild acceleration. If it does, back off a degree or two until it stops pinging on acceleration and you're done.

good luck......

Gordon

Make it easier and install a pair of ICTs, Solex 34s or 39s with chokes, or Kads instead of that single. You get more power and you open up room for the distributor. Kirk at VS has the brackets for a dual set up and a/c.

The ICTs are a piece of cake to set up.

Hear hear on the ICTS- childs play to sync.

Gordon,

Your suggestion is similar to Alan's, but a 20 degree rotation of the drive shaft would allow me to keep the distributor in 'line' (and in front). I will give it a try. And I will reduce the advance and see how it sounds.

Jim,

You are right. I was planning on getting a pair of Kadrons. Maybe I should do it now. The car was running a little hot (230-240F after an hour on the highway, 3000rpm). I read that the vacuum advance distributor can reduce oil temps 10-15 degrees. After I will see that happen, I was going to upgrade to dual carbs (The A/C unit is also not helping in cooling the engine bay - but I want to keep it).

Does anyone know what Kirk's A/C adapter (bracket) is doing? Will it move the compressor more to the left side? Do I need another belt?

Thank you guys!

Andreas

you need to begin by putting the engine to TDC #1. Remove the stock unit, install the SVDA, and re-index the plug wires so the one the rotor is aiming at is still running to #1. It's very common for the wire orientation to be off by 90 or 180 degrees compared to what you had. The biggest problems we have on SVDA installation is the customer's assumption that the rotor and plug wire orientation is the same as what they just removed, and this is not the case. Even the 009 is different then the stock distributor, so you must start somewhere that you KNOW you are at, which is why we recommend to begin at TDC #1.

Make sense?

This should have been clear in the instructions, but it's often just skimmed over (not saying you did).

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

PS: if the vac can won't work at 7 o'clock, put it where it will work and re-index the wires. You can do this because the SVDA (and all stock distributors 1971 and later) do NOT have a #3 retard. And, the 009 hasn't had a #3 retard for over 20 years, so lets nip that rumor in the bud while we are at it LOL. The #3 retard is only needed for in-shroud oil cooler engines, doghouse engines and T-4 engines do NOT need the retard on #3.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

John ,

Well, I learned something new here, thanks for the great info!

John,

Thank you very much that.
There is one thing where I am now confused:

>John wrote:
The #3 retard is only needed for in-shroud oil cooler engines, doghouse engines and T-4 engines do NOT need the retard on #3.

Makes sense to me. But, I have not seen a oil-cooler outside the shroud, so I was sure that my shroud was not a doghouse type. Why would Kirk sell the in-shroud oil-cooler in combination with a 009 distributor instead of the stock distributor?

And: Would you guys recommend a doghouse shroud? Which one (remember that I do have an A/C compressor. I looked for a second at Jake's web site for the TypeI DTM, but that would certainly not fit)? How much? Can I use the same oil cooler?

Thanks,
Andreas

Andreas,

You've got a doghouse shroud, I'd be willing to bet. Kirk got his engines from Strictly Foreign in 2000, so I'd bet you have one of thiers. You haven't seen an oil cooler outside the shroud because it IS in the shroud, but not in the way that John C. was meaning. If you get a mirror and look behind the dog-house on the drivers side, you'll see a hump with a duct leading outside the engine compartment to a place just ahead of the #3 cylinder. Your oil cooler's in there. Earlier (pre-dog-house) engines had the original 36hp shrouds that did not duct the discharge air off of the oil cooler outside, it just dumped that already warmed air over the #3 cylinder- hence the need for a retard to keep that cylinder running cooler.

I'm guessing that you got the distributer in the first place because you are running hot. What kind of exhaust are you running? George Brown posted an excellent article in the knowledge section several years ago on controlling temperature. His recommendations are that these engines like to breathe, and that a restrictive exhaust really aggrivates the problem. I'd change the exhaust and get a welded/ balanced fan and a 356 alternator pulley to overdrive the fan, as per George's excellent recommendations. I did, and it made a world of difference- to the point that I just might stay with my 1776 until it scrambles.

Stan,

Thank you so much for your response. Yesterday, I took a look what I would have to do, if I want to change the fan shroud, and decided that I really want to avoid it, if I have other alternatives.

The exhaust is Kirk's 'special exhaust' (from 2000). I do like the sound, but I don't know the size. Anyone knows?

Balanced fan and 356 pulley: I found a Doghouse, genuine VW, welded cooling fan (Aircooled.net) for $95. Is that the one everyone is talking about?
Mid America Motorworks have pulley halfes (409-424 and 409-426) for $14 each. Do I need hub and nut or does the originals fit?
That would also require a different belt, or? What belt size do you use with a 356 pulley?

Thanks so much,
Andreas

Kirk's special exhaust in 2000 was a s/s "Thing" header I believe- 1-3/8" primaries. You can get a welded balanced fan for the wider doghouse shroud pretty much anywhere out of the back of "Hot VWs", but John C from aircooled.net posts here, so buy accordingly. Most VW alternator pulleys hubs will be removable from the pulley halfs unless you have a chrome one- then you will likely need the hub also. Check yours to find out.

An used original doghouse shroud is probably the best possible shroud out there, but good luck finding one in decent shape. These cars are 30 years old now. Jake Raby did an exhaustive test of almost every possibel permutation of shroud, and sold the data for a story to some obscure VW mag in England that has yet to print the data, so... he knows, but isn't telling, and I got tired of waiting. Most of us have either Empi or Scat 36hp doghouse shrouds- they look like a 36 hp shroud (pretty close to how a 356 shroud looked), but are wider for the wide cooling fan, and incorporate the later doghouse-type cooler. Look at yours before you buy something else- I'm sure you have one of these, and it will be OK with your engine if you have a decent exhaust and the over-driven fan. Its only a 1776, not a 2332.

Back to the carb thing- take the money you want to spend on the shroud and buy some dual carbs- ICTs have a vacuum port for your distributer I think. Put your distributer in, buy the fan and pulley, and see what you get. Still too hot? Buy an extrnal oil cooler.

For a fan shroud in the Boston area, try these places:

Import Machine - Dana Johnson 508-872-7223

Pleasant Street Garage, Marlboro, MA - Gino or Don, 508-485-4717

Vintage Volkswagen, Littleton, MA - Jack Griffin 978-486-4502 (although Jack may have finally retired and headed South!)

Gordon

The car is back on the street!!

Thanks to everyone for your input. The noise that I didn't like was/is not coming from the engine itself, but from the fan shroud (now, that's another problem, but it cannot be a new problem - I just didn't listen close enough before). While warming up, the fan shroud vibrates. As far as I can see the fan seems balanced (when the car is in idle).

I timed between 6-7.5 and went for a 40min ride (2300-3000 rpm). Everything was fine and the engine was not getting warmer than 200F (..it was chilly outside), which is already much cooler than before. I am so glad its done.

Stan, you were right. I have a doghouse shroud with (covered) external oil cooler.

I am going to order the balanced fan and the 356 pulley, but maybe enjoy driving the car this fall before going to install them.

Thanks again,

Andreas