Valve adjustment question

Valves are set based on the pulley TDC. Distributor position doesn't matter.

To ensure you are on #1 and not #3 TDC, look at the valves on the 1/2 side. Exhaust valve on #2 will be open when #1 is at TDC. So left to right they'll be open-closed-closed-closed. If the #2' exhaust is closed, you are on #3's TDC and you need to rotate the crank 360 degrees.

if you have an aftermarket cam a lot of times that way of adjusting the valves wont work and get there where they need ito be.Ive never seen that way work right on any cam,and get a good setting.but a lot of guys do it.

  I like the clearance to be like it is when running, as static setting them dosent account for running clearances other than the lash, like bearing clearances,the valve on the other head pushing the cam back tward the one your setting or the other way. there is a much easyer way to do it and it gives much better results, no timing marks to wory about.no piticular order to go in. And it usualy results in a quieter smoother running engine.

Thanks guys, I did it according to the book (Muir) and used the timing marks on the pulley. They were ok and did not need to be touched.

 

I know you guys are very knowledgeable mechanics, but you were kind of losing me.

 

Mark, what would be the much easier method ?

Thanks again

I adjust them as Mark described. Both valve covers off, rotate and watch valve(s) go to full lift and adjust opposing valve on opposite head. (#2 exhaust at full lift - adjust #4 exhaust valve clearance, #2 intake at full lift - adjust #4 intake valve clearance, etc....)

 

Jimmy

That is a better method if you have an assistant. It takes much longer alone. Plus I figure regardless of how you set them, knowing how to find TDC is useful.

Ok. That makes more sense to me. It does seem easier. If I ever get a personal assistant I'll give it a try. (lol)  Thanks.

pretty much as jimmy said,I do it a little diferent but thats basicly it. as for tdc I dont recall ever needing it execpt for degreeing the camshaft, & checking to see if the pully is correct,Ive had some pullys out as far as 6.5 degrees.(well part pully & part crankenshafter) and witch tdc do you want the firing or exhaust tdc.and then there is seeing the ##'s on the pully, I had to have todd get a mirrior so I could even see what was what.hmm I gess I did use tdc for looking at the timing,just because I could not see the ###'s on the pully and had to see if there was a mark on the edge of the pully at tdc.

     I will probably make a quick removable lower pully tin so i can turn the crank from under the car, Im too old to be getten up&down somany times(not realy the age,as much as too much raidiation)

whats an assistanT ??

Ok, Mark. With the idea that you may be able to compare this to your previous post which includes many grammatical errors, mispellings, lack of punctuation and worse, I'll re-write your post the way it could have been posted in the hope that you may learn something and others may not find it so painful to read your posts which seem to contain some real good information. I'm frustrated reading your gibberish and so my efforts may contain errors too. Please forgive me. Gag me with a spoon etc.  Now:

 

I agree pretty much as Jimmy said. I do it a little differently but that's basicallyit. As for TDC, I don't recall ever needing it except for degreeing the camshaft and checking to see if the pulley is correct. I've had some pulleys that are out as far as 6.5 degrees. ( well part pulley and part " crankshaft...sic " ). Which TDC do you want, firing or exhaust ? Then, there is seeing the ##'s on the pulley. I had to have Todd ( who is Todd ? , get a mirror so I could even see what was what. Hmm, I guess I did use TDC for looking at the timing, just because I could not see the ###'s on the pulley and had to see if there was a mark on the edge of the pulley at TDC. I will probably make a quick remoably lower pulley tin so I can turn the crank from under the car. I'm too old to be getting up and down so many times (not so much from age as much as too much radiation)

And I didn't get a chance to recheck my own post so I'll just add :

 

I buggered "basically it" in my first sentence of the second para

I've no idea how or even to create the Smiley bugger after Todd

and I mispelled "removeable" in the second last sentence.

 

Anyway my motive is clear....just trying to help the list. I'll get over

it. It doesn't take much effort to improve your writing and I think it

somewhat reflects your repect to those that might be reading it.

 

 

Come on David... BTW, I am the Todd he speaks of.  You may not like his spelling but Mark is very talented and knowledgeable on these motors and probably the nicest person and willing to take a call or send pics of how to fix something without hesitation.  Respect for those on the site?  BTW...u misspelled a word in your last sentence...

Duly noted, Amigo.

sobasisclyif you cant read it how did youdoit? I dont know how old you are or what you do or have done, or how much raidaition you have done either or how much your joints hurt, or if your eye sight that has been perfest foe about 45 year is now giving you fits&the glasses give you migrains, or if you were a product of the new type of learning I was subjected to in the late 60's where the books had just about 90% of the words spelled rong.why I dont know, but if that is what your tought as a kid it's kinda hard to shake it. Ive always worked with my hands too, withvery heavy parts,sharp parts, heavy tooling,sharp tooling,cars, boats, motorcycles,trucks, jetskis and many things inbetween even aircraft,aerospace,DOD,missels parts&pieses.and also now partly paralized on my right side&I just happen to be right handed and that hand,arm,sholder,back are affected, thanks to a effedup surgon that should be cutting hamburgers at burgerking instead of slicing&dicing people. but I try to do what I can & help when I can. so if you cant read my american I dont mind at all. and I respect you right to  not read any of my gibberish. I would think if somebody had enough brains to turn on the computer thet could also figure what is being typed weather it has a cap or not, or the syntax was just right or not.if not than reading my gibberish wouldnt do them any good if it wasent gibberish weather it had a J or a B. and know I dont mind at all. I had a spelling teacher for a ant(aunt), she is gone now, but but she tought for many years till she was about 70.she did not like being retired and missed the work, so I try to keep the retired spelling teachers sharp at thier skill. are you by chance a spelling teacher??if so I think my work hear is almost done, I have many diplomas on my wall,does it realy matter?? no it does not.Does it matter if I use caps at the start of a sentance? No it dosent. are you getting pissed at me by now?? well if you do oh well Im just messen with you, as it realy dosent matter in the big skeem of things. these are only cars. have a great day davy.when you come to fl this year come on by & say hi. and I dont see much of any thing you wrote that is different or "changes " anything at all.Execpt for the smiley by todd.witch I do like ,I think todd is starting to smile a bit more every day with his new addtion to his family, and the new addtion is mighty sweet.

OMGmarkyourealyneedtousecarriagereturnsandpunctuation.

 

Marksbug  --  I'm definitely not taking sides or trying to flame this up, but:  With all respect could I suggest if you are willing to invest your time to share your knowledge could you not waste my time trying to figure out what you said?

 

Every once-in-a-while I actually wade all the way through one of your technical posts and conclude that you probably really know what you are doing and that I could learn quite a bit from you; if it was only more coherent.

 

My point is you have an enthusiastic audience that wants to read what you are spending your time to share, but (like me) you are turning them away. 

 

Nobody here is expecting Word Perfect composition; at least I sure hope not!  But could you at least gloss-over your posts with a Spell Check before clicking Submit?

 

Most respectfully,

Mark

 

PS:  I don't buy the part that you are uneducated and don't know any better.  For example, why would you know to capitalize DOD but not know to capitalize the first letter in a new sentence? 

It kinda sounds like its a take it or leave it deal.  If you actually read his last post it sounds like he has taken some lumps along this road called life and it is not top priority to make sure he edits his posts. 

I appreciate that I learn something new from marksbug every time he posts a tech tip or helping out an SOCer.

 

Speaking as a combat veteran, a grammatically challenging read is child's play in the scheme of things that life throws at us!

 

I'm just saying...

I find reading large blocks of print on a computer screen hard to do, no matter how well it's written.

Mark (RS-60) has the right idea, putting in line spaces every few sentences.

While I agree that it can be a little tough to read some of his posts, I would rather he contribute just like he does than not at all.

Farzle puuf'm stuff,yam 2 olde to lern a gnu langage.

I second RS-60 chiding, yet diplomatic, advice.

 

I'm just trying to figure out the wierd 'persona' he's attempting to establish with his deliberately affectation (and non punctuation) phonetic prose...

 

How can it be that he put his daughter through medical school without knowing how to correctly spell her specialty??

never said I was uneducated,I was however educated allover the world for the most part.and all of the world may not do as you do.

 and what kind of dr is my daughter? How do you know it is misspelled?Oh so you can read it.so whats the issue?never mind,I know you just wanted to chew on somebodys butt for something that has nothing to do with any thing in this thread.And thats ok, I dont mind, but get inline and bring a hamburgger& some cookies ,My butt seems to be getten thin.but I dont mind at all.

  

   Every body has something to add.

 

   Some even have someting to add to the thread.

 Some just want to show how supperior they think they are.

 

      Some dont care.

  Some want to know something about thier car.

   Does a missing letter,  rong placed letter make thier vw a chevy?

 a subie a toyota? and just when did subaru get an I in it??Ive driven them since the early 70's no I. do I mind? no. Do I chew on somebodys butt for it??.........

Congradulations marksbug for finding the line spacing bar on your keyboard.

 

no I just sneezzed while typing with my nose,because my fingers hurt.

GOOD! Keep sneezing Mark!!

Your technical contributions are appreciated...and now, because of your allergies, they'll be much much easier to read.

 

 

but the keys are getten stickey.......oops rong site!! where's that clairtin.

OMG, I almost blu kofy out my knose...

Wait a minute!!  I said I didn't want to flame things up!  Let's get back to valve adjusting!!

 

Marksburg  --  thanks for at least the gratuitous extra line feed here-and-there.  It is a helpful compromise, no matter how you accomplished it. 

We could always open a grammer thread. When you see somebody has missused thier grammer (no not granny, but dont miss use her either) or spelling, just addd thier name to the list and forget about it.Only 1 name 1 time. lets see how long it takes for the entire list be filled with all of our names. sttoted.

     Or just keep chewing on my butt as it wont help& I dont mind.

    I do have an ex wife named cindie, I have a friend named cindy and anothe one I knew a very long time ago named sindy. So witch one do I tell there just plain stupid with morons for parents?? Kinda like when I blue something, nice color.  I spell my name mark, not marc as a friend does,so witch of us is rong?,neither,as Im from NJ & he was from IL, MR. rong was from china. I did like his sister,Ima. But she likes catsup, but I like ketsup

     Now back the the valve adjustment thread. Ever listen to a vw in a movie and thet always sound like they have a knock? most of that sound can be eleminated in most vw's by doing the preload method of valve adjustment like I do & 56speedy does. But I dont do it quite like speedy,I go the other way,If the #1 ex is going down about 1/4"~3/8" then adjust the intake on that cylinder, and when the #1 intake is almost back up(about 1/4"~3/8" from closing) then adjust that exhaust. this way accounts for all the clearance in the system.

    Speedys way will still get them all the same but dosent account for the extra clearance on the other side of the cam when it is running and you result with a wider running lash that you set them at.(if there is .005 cambearing clearance that will be added to your lash, due to the cam being pushed tward the side you are adjusting taking up the bearing clearance.Then it is added back to it when the engine is running)

 

   Also thats is how I can tell if mine are out of adjustment more than about.002".

 

    There are other factors that can also make the sound worse.

 

    There are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things , also there are better ways to do things.

 

    now go clean the coffie off your key board.

Thanks for that info Mark. I've never even thought about bearing clearance coming into play when I set the valves as I do but you are absolutely correct. I've been setting them the way I do for quite a while because I run a radical cam compared to stock and I want to be sure that I'm nowhere near the ramp when I'm adjusting clearance.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jimmy

Ive always run a lot of cam shaft too, this is the smallest cam I have ever run in my car now. It's cb 2250,  256@.505&.420 lobe, it's in my 2028. Ive run roller cams for so long this oh so diferent for me, my new motor for the 356 will be a hydro roller I had custom ground, going  in a 2387cc, .As far as I know knobody have ever done a hyd roller in a acvw before.the  motor will have  1.7 raito rockers. my 2332 has a big solid roller for it.

Mark-

 

I'd love to hear about how it works. Roller is absolutely the way to go for quick ramps, and the idea of decent hydraulic lifters still intrigues me for a street car.

Well.... I'm glad I asked the question....even though I don't fully understand the answer(s). I drove the car today and it ran just fine.

 

Thank you Mark and all you guys! As usual, this site made my life easier.

 

Mark, the next time I drive to Florida I'll jog west a bit and buy you a sweet tea.

One hydraulic roller setup I saw somewhere, they cut a slot partway down between a pair of lifter bores, and bolted in a metal bar in the slot. The flat ends of the bar rode against flat areas of the lifter to keep them from rotating in the bores.

I have been setting my valves the way justinh does , for 27,000 miles. My engine is relatively quiet considering chromoly pushrods and Pauter 1.5:1 roller-rockers. It has been a couple years since I shimmed them for sideplay, probably time to do that again this year. I don't have a distributor, so cap/rotor means nothing to me.

 

RE: marksbug's posts, I don't care what they look/spell like I read them anyway, but it would be appreciated if a tiny bit more effort went in to readability. Thanks! 

Justin-I seem to recall the same info you refer to-the name "Pauter machine" jumped out...I could be wrong.

pauter does all kinda of stuff.

as to the valev adjutsments, and the gramer/speling, I sumbit to you what sum folks have figred out in studing the way the humn brian reeds words and ltrs.  The theory is thet if you git the first and lst letters right, and mix up (or leev out) sum of the ones in beteen, it really does not mater -- you will in fact "read" what is written.  I find that if you raed it fast, and just "go w/ the flow", you get it and get it rght.  jist seyin' . . .

 

As to the better way of doing the valves, I am hereby re-educated.  What is down here does make some sense, and I can see how there may be cams where there may be some residual lift present even when the crank is TDC for that cylinder.  I wonder how radical you have to get for that to happen?  And the business of cam bearing run-out -- whoa.  REALLY??  0.005" worth??  That would be huge.  Recall there are several (five ?) bearings in there holding that cam still,; I doubt there should be more than 0.0005" run-out on that puppy.  And what about the oil film thickness at running speed?  Would that not take up some distance here??  Should be very small, but it is finite and not zero when the bearing is spinning. But I get the theory as stated, and the theory is good.  I've been using TDC (the simple way) since 1962, and figure I have been doing it right.  Now maybe not so much.  I'll study this some more and see if I can get it down to something I can remember correctly when I am standing on my head w/ my little stubby screw driver and the 13mm wrench.  At least w/ my new engine (Chromalloy parts) I do not have to manipulate a feeler gauge also.

frazerk, what motor do you have in your spedystear? the vw only has 3 bearings, and 4 lobes total for the cam shaft. and runout never came into play.it's bearing clearances & and of corse camshaft flex,yes they can&do flex. I have even run my 2332 with a -5 thou lash(when cold, it spins real good when cold then  just a little heat after about 10 sec of spining it would fire up and continue expanding till it got to the running temp,I was using chromoly pushrods, and also ceramic coated chambers,valves ex ports&piston tops, to keep the heat going out the exhaust where it belongs.I would not recomend doing this unless you have expearance maching&building a lot of motors &dont mind experamentiong on your own stuff.

 as far as what you said about leaving out some letters & moving some around I have heard of it but never seen it done.do you have any exzamples  so we can see if it realy works? from the article I read it had to do something with your brains,no brains&you cant read it or gives you fits, but einestine might not ever notice what was going on. I think we all would like to see the outcome.

  As for your way of adjusting the valves just try it my way 1 time and see what you get(not realy my way, but the way hiperformance cams should be adjusted,and stock ones usualy bennifit from it quite a bit too, of corse if the cam is hydro it wont matter unless you run them at  zero lash or -.001~ -.005, then it might.

    a lot of racing sanctions require you to run a hydrocam/lifter in some clases but you can make a hydro cam solid ( or very close to it)& not get "lifter pump up just by setting hot lash to about .-.001~.001 so the lifter cant pump up, but the rpm may still be limited a little due to the hydrolic lifter being a few grams heaver.

    now to the cam size that would require a different type of lash setting, well if you know any thing about engines, the vw is kinda unique in the fact that it has extreamly low rocker arm raitos, 1.1 stock, then 1.25,1.34,1.4,1.5,1.55 and so on, but most run the 1.1 or the 1.25, I have 1.1, 1.25,1.34,1.56 & working on some 1.7. the raito is in theroy not in reality in most cases, like my 1.56 is a 1.4 in theroy, but theroy dosent operate an engine, and the type of rocker also alters the raito& the raito change that some have, more than others..

   And did you know the first hp acve cams were made off of kieth black patterns for chrysler hemi & other chrysler motors? also the rocker raito dosent just add lift but it ALSO CHANGES THE CAM DURATION AT THE VALVE!!! witch is why a mild cam in a vw will be a wild cam in a chevy that has 1.6 rockers.

      What does this have to do with valve adjustments?? Well you asked at what size cam does this start counting, well it sort of does now due to the much more duration of the vw camshaft due to the low rocker raito,(witch is also why some cams say for certain raito rockers,put a wild 1.5 raito cam on a 1.1 rocker and you might not have squart and it wasent desined for that raito either, add 1.5 rockers to a 1.1 cam and it might just start bending stuff and floting the valves due to the lobe ramps&flanks)

     I have raced for oh somany years,big hp v8 stuff, and have piles of it. I have in my inventory for my 600+hp smallblock mopar a new(30 + yearold) R296-4776 crane roller cam, witch is quite biger than the ones I used to run witch were R276-284-4266 (R= roller cam,276 is the intake lobe duration @.050 tapit lift, the 284 is exhaust lobe duration @.050. , the 4266 is the lobe lift, you multiply your raito to get the lift at the valve  so it's .640.   The R296 is 296 degrees duration @ .050 tapit lift on both intake & exhaust lobes and 4777 is the lobe lift witch is .716 at the valve with 1.5 raito rockers. and that can was used in prostock engines, the ultimate in performance for drag racing. well you ask what does this have to do with vw? well that same size cam in a vw with 1.1 rockers would be kinda just past mild. I have a 256@ .050 in my vw now and it is very mild, but it still has the wild lobes if it had the 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 rockers on it. a lumpy just past mild cam for a v8 with 1.7 raito rockers would have around 224-234 duration @ .050 tapit lift.

   And dont forget the big face on the vw lifter(witch can also change things up)

   So in the end you have a wild cam in a engine that has wild lifters & very extreamly mild rockers.but the cam& position of the lobe & lifters dosent change, if there is 256 degrees of duration @ .o5o tapit lift, that is what it is at the cam regardless of the rocker, the rocker just transulates it to the valves with what ever raito they have.

 I gess what Im trying to say is you already have more cam that most mussle cars of the 60's&70s' had ,possiably all of them, but your short in the transulation.

    And by the way your vw dosent know it is a vw. And it just like the chevys,moppars&fords cant read what is written on the valve covers.( Even if somebody else other than me wrote it.)