very nice early IM on ebay

Good looking car. I took a long hard look at it the first time it was listed. The gauges and the doors (specifically the 'latch' area) kind of put me off. The seats and dash all look like they have seen a some time in the sun.  I don't think it's a 'bad' car. It could be a great place to start, but not at a starting price north of 23k.

Have a look at the door edge. Specifically at the seam where the door 'halves' would have been joined. I see what appears to be crack in that seam. I asked for more detailed photos of that area from the seller. He replied with the exact same photos used in the ad.  I also don't like the aluminum 'plate' which was placed on/around there door latch there. Is that standard?

The previous listing ended November 22nd. At that time, it had one offer placed on November 16th, for $23,900. Obviously it didn't sell. I'm guessing the reserve is somewhere above that number.

Best of luck to anyone who bids,
Ted

I see now the crack at the doors edge I Missed it as well as the previous auction I wouldn't have thought it would have been priced in that range also the reason it stood out initially was that I had the same IM meaning complete color combo and mine was very early so I thought that was extremely well preserved for being so old but having emailed the seller asking what year his reply was 2002 which doesn't even seem possible to me the gauges and interior vinyl is that of earlier IM speedsters and it certainly doesn't appear to be a tube frame  strange..... thoughts?

NOT IM - Looks like a CMC to me. Vintage gauge were only sold by FF/CMC.  Aluminum door latch plate is same as my CMC as are the dash brows.  Door panels - scream CMC build manual.  I'll give odds to it being a worn CMC. Nothing in ad says IM. At $23,900 in worn condition way overpriced.

CMC

Front turn signals, hibachi grill... Plus, the older IMs had an ID plaque on the drivers side door jamb.

I do like the color combo.

How's everything going, Jane?

hey Terry, 

not too bad I agree I  like the color combo and the patina frankly looks more authentic sometimes rather than squeeky clean and new. I had an 78 IM 2 years ago identical to this one except mine had 914 gauges.  

I believe the IMs that predate CMCs look like CMCs.

I think CMC took over IMs molds and other stuff when they started and IM stopped building Speedsters in CA.

Mornin' Gang,

A few of you mention distinct differences which scream CMC vs IM. As I'm looking for car, I'd love to learn how to spot these differences. Is there a thread which highlights or calls out these subtle differences across the different makes?

So far I gathered:

Gauges (vintage - read "ugly")

Door panels

Boot grill (Hibachi style) 

Dash eyebrow

Others?

T

Mike is correct on FF/CMC and IM early connection.  I think this one said it was built in 2002 too - so an unbuilt CMC completed later is my bet (CMC out of business by 1993).  Most FF/CMC were factory color gel coated - easily repainted but a durable albeit not show quality finish.  The Vintage gauges has a list price of $325 for the chrome trim white faced ones and a bit more for the black face and the brass trim cream face.  On mine they threw gauges in as incentive.  They are not quality or accurate gauges (I think they were product of Johnson Controls and only sold by CMC for their entire line - TD and Gazelle to include the water cooled ones).  They did offer VDO 356 style gauges too. CMC only came with the Speedster bucket seats with the slots.  You got a few yards of vinyl for the door panels - hence most are glued to a flat piece of ply board.  The single piece hibachi grill is also used by JPS (I believe that's what someone mentioned awhile back).  The grill can be swapped out with a real Porsche one but the opening has to be enlarged 1/4" and the rain shield then reattached.  All their tops and tonneaus were vinyl - no Haartz cloth available.  CMCs came with a metal id tag but not many got attached.IMs has a sticky silver metal decal (often removed when repainting). The hood handle on the classic body came with their own crest - with either CLASSIC SPEEDSTER or SPEEDSTER FIBERFAB on it.  Its exact same size as OEM Porsche crest so easy swap.  IMz came with a Prancing Bull Crest.  Of course any of above can be upgraded over their 30 year existence.  DrClock's CMC revitalizations often use Porsche 914 gauges, VS door panels and seats, and he often leaves off the 2 side brows and even the center brow.  The fiberglass is substantial on a CMC often 1/2-3/4" in corners.  Nothing wrong with CMC if it's finished correctly and bits are upgraded.  

Having inquired as to the maker this is the reply:

Good Afternoon,

Sorry I was working on gathering some information. This is what I have concluded; the Porsche speedster was built in 2002 by a company by the name of Las Vegas Vintage Motors. It is a Pan-Based Frame with a 1504cc Volkswagen engine that I was reading was more dependable than the others. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks

"Las Vegas Vintage Motors"  ??

1500CC, those gauges and that interior @ 23,900 plus?  

Does anyone else hear 'Dreamer', by Super Tramp playing in their heads?

Sorry if that's disrespectful to the seller, but the numbers don't add up. This car should be priced somewhere near 18,000.00. 

Am I off base here?

Ted

"Las Vegas Vintage Motors" sounds like a two car garage where a couple of guys banged out a kit when the their tile roofing business slowed down.

Good detailed information Wolfgang !

This is a CMC ( note the gold bezel "Vintage" gauges, ( CMC was successfully sued by Classic Instruments Inc) amber truck front signal lights heavy cast deck lid grill etc. Gas tank straps are ugly and overkill, fuel filter placement over the dizzy is a fire ready to happen....It could be a nice ride with upgrades  Current condition small 1500cc single port motor ... mild bottom end pull but runs out of steam above 60 mph( if it makes it there)  It's worth $10,500 to $11,500k tops . I'm drclock and I approve this message :~)

ALSO - IMs used a dash mounted ignition switch, vs the steering column location on

CMCs.

Missing the wipers too

You guys are rough.  I still wondering how you put up the supplied convertible top since there's no bolt to bolt the top bows to.  Also (next to last picture) the front inner wheel well liners were never installed.  Other than cutting down on water splashing - it reinforces the front end fiberglass. Liners get screwed to the bumper brackets and fiberglassed in for 2/3 of the panels contact area. Seems to have a connection less oil breather too - where are the hoses?

Curious to see what reserve ends up.  Wow, compare it to the Sea Foam Green 1915 cc VS in NJ for same price - absolutely no comparison. On an used replica, patina translate to time to refresh.  37k miles on a 1500cc engine is end of life too.

You think they are rough, Wolfgang ? ...here this loud and clear. We've put over 38,000 miles on a bux down beater of an old Im in the last three years. I've still got about $12K into it with a Soob engine. West, East , South and North ...nothing but  compliments about our travels from far and wide. Your comment about patina on a used replica appears very narrow minded. Show and shine is nice...mileage is what we do. What do you do ?

I admit to building a tow bar once and ripped the little bugger down to Daytona once in January  behind my Ram 4x4 to pick up the Bride and spend a week in Fla. Never again ! Never been so embarrassed ! Those quasi tough Harley people gave me too many high fives. Lazy louts with Harleys on trailers. Aye..tough bikers they are, eh ?

See you in Key West on our way while driving to Carlisle this year or is it a bit out of your way ? Patina is recognized as legit cool in Key West BTW.

Only a 1504cc engine...with what appears to be a single carb? Rather anemic, I would bet, unless driven downhill with a tailwind. I'd pass on the car because of the engine alone.   Now, am I being too rough? Hope so!

Barry...you'd laugh your butt off if you saw Fran and I heading over a long hill on a large Interstate highway near Denver, Co. in Sept, 2010. We'd just bought our IM Speedster in Boise, Idaho for $6,500 four or five days before. Spent the long weekend in Spanish Fork, Utah getting a tie rod done and four new tires at the local Big O Tire shop. Got a loaner and discovered Sundance and Park City.

The travel document was to be posted in the windshield  but it was constantly in the way. I took it off and stuffed it under the driver's seat. Cool weather, top down and barreling down that freeway, just past Buffalo Bill's grave site and we're heading East big time. A big Harley pulls up behind us one lane to our left. He hangs out there for a bit, comes up and gives us the eye with a smile, pulls up front and looks around for a front plate and again sees nothing .

He hangs back a bit and gives us a wassup look. I smiled, put my head down and floored that old 1600 cc stock motor just for a laugh. He laughed too, his BOTB laughed and smiled when they roared away. She had a nice rack and made the rear seat look pretty good.

You can't replace a day like that and you don't need big cc's to do it either.

Five days later we were home in Ottawa, Canada. 1600 cc's  ? I'd do that trip again tomorrow.......

Hey David,

Jack Crosby is hankering to do a south west route to California this year.

Once you hit Carlisle you're pointed in the right direction to join him.

I can just see it now...Two white speedsters, Westward-Ho, tearing through New Mexico kicking up dust and scarring the bejesus out of jackrabbits and wild donkeys!

Ditto that patina crack & I'll pile on: "37k miles on a 1500cc engine is end of life too."

Mine's got about 254,000. I pulled it, yeah. But just now. And it sure ran good down to VA Beach & back a month ago.

That all said: Stroud, back off Wolfgang. He is excellent people and his build has been repeatedly interrupted--by stuff like driving home from the BugOut to get a tow bar and then rescue my sorry ass from the off ramp 20 miles away. 

Well thanks for that, Ed. I'll keep my patina observations to myself.

I hope nobody thinks we are picking on Pom or anyone in particular. I just think the car is really over priced for the shape that it's in. I made comment about the motor simply because a 1500 single port with a tiny carb is about what?... 54 bhp?

If nothing else, we've seen several way better options listed here since then. The blue speedster for 21,000, with a 1776 and the correct bits?! That green and tan(ish) one with two sets of wheels? 23,000?

This butter yellow one isn't that bad, it's just priced wrong.

Ted

thank you and very well put I wasn't aware of the reserve when I saw it, I was thinking maybe in the $14K to $16K range as it reminded me me of my 78 IM I sold last summer for $13K it was identical except for the gauges.  My original thoughts on this one were for the low to mid teens it seemed a good choice relative to others at the $20K mark with maybe only a few inexpensive differences.

Yup. Agreed. If it were priced appropriately, this would be a great entry level car for someone to 'fix' overtime. I'd hate to see someone buy it and get burned.

The color combo is great and the stance is spot on.

Ted