Vintage/Seduction spyder; Clutch grinding when putting into reverese

You clutch grinds or your gears grind?

Someone with a bigger brain than I can correct me if I’m wrong but AFAIK grinding into reverse is generally caused by either your clutch not fully disengaging or your shifter not being perfectly adjusted.

Since it’s a Vintage I assume it’s a cable shifter? Check to make sure everything is tight. My buddy just lost shifting in his RSK when one of the double nut lock nuts loosened up on one of the cables.

How much play is in the clutch? If there is more play than before it could be as Dave said and the nut securing it to the pivot arm has loosened or the cable has stretched. The cure is to tighten it up so there is just a slight amount of play so the clutch is fully disengaged while driving. Or, again, as Dave suggested the shifter plate has moved and it's now out of alignment. This is most notable when shifting into reverse. A quick search will tell you how to adjust the plate. Unfortunately I can't remember.  If the grinding happens through all of the gears the throw-out bearing could be going bad but that's the least probable reason, especially if you have few miles on it.

I'm not familiar with air-cooled shops in your area but Anthony is in Auburn, CA about 100 miles northwest of you and is an awesome mechanic if you need help with it.

http://www.anthonysclassicautowerks.com/

Yeah, a Vintage Spyder has no cable clutch like a Speedster. Disregard above comments.

The Spyder has a 5/8" master in the front and a 7/8" slave cylinder in the rear(usually, but sometimes people use different sizes).

I HIGHLY recommend flushing the fluid at least every two years. If it isn't done, and sometimes even if it is, then you will have problems. Sometimes you can disassemble the slave, clean it, and bleed and it's fine. Sometimes you have to replace the master or the slave.

Check and see if there are TWO nuts on both ends of the slave. If locknuts aren't used the  nuts can back off and that could be your problem. Threads are 5/16" 18 TPI.

Be careful with blindly tightening the adjustment. Too much clutch throw WILL damage the pressure plate(over-extending the springs) requiring replacement.

I agree with Danny. I also have a Seduction Spyder. Flush the system first.

You will have to remove the left front wheel to access the MC for the clutch.

You could also roll the front up on some ramps, or use a lift, and access the MC from underneath by removing the front beam cover plate. It's a bit of a hassle this way though. The chance of dripping brake fluid on your face is real.

Sorry, Dudes - Didn't realize I had wandered over into the "Dark Side" of the site.

I deleted it so as not to cornfuse.

What is your idle RPM?  Too high of an idle RPM will cause a short "grind" as R engages

When I got my vintage Suby Spyder it’s was idling at 800 rpms and the rpms would drop significantly when the radiator fan kicked on sometimes causing the car to stall. Turned the idle up to 1100-1200 rpms. No more stalling but it does tend to grind more going into reverse. I try to take it slow and depress the clutch as much as possible.

Sounds like reverse is unsynchronized, which makes sense since most were when VW designed their transaxle.  Push the clutch in, select a forward gear to bring the trans innards to a stop, and then go into reverse.  That should stop the grinding.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Push the clutch in, select a forward gear to bring the trans innards to a stop, and then go into reverse.  That should stop the grinding.

Lane, now that you mentioned it, it reminded me that that is how I did it; for 20+ years.  I never really thought about it 'til now, it was just automatic 'muscle memory' after so long:  To shift into reverse; first shift to 1st, slip the clutch a little, press the clutch back in and shift to reverse.

It sounds like a long process, but it's not.  It's like click to 1st, click to reverse.

My idle was generally around 1100.  And it would clunk or minimally grind if going directly to reverse without going to 1st first.

Until now I never realized this worked for me because of a reasonable explanation; like "bring the trans innards to a stop".  I thought it was 'just the way it is' and lived with it that way because it was no big deal.

On the occasion when I really did have something wrong that was causing 'grindy gear selection' and even pop out of gear, especially in reverse was because of broken motor mounts.  If the motor mounts are broken (somewhat common if they are red urethane mounts), the trans kind of flops around and makes the shift linkage adjustment randomly effective.

@DannyP posted:

Yeah, a Vintage Spyder has no cable clutch like a Speedster. Disregard above comments.

The Spyder has a 5/8" master in the front and a 7/8" slave cylinder in the rear(usually, but sometimes people use different sizes).

I HIGHLY recommend flushing the fluid at least every two years. If it isn't done, and sometimes even if it is, then you will have problems. Sometimes you can disassemble the slave, clean it, and bleed and it's fine. Sometimes you have to replace the master or the slave.

Check and see if there are TWO nuts on both ends of the slave. If locknuts aren't used the  nuts can back off and that could be your problem. Threads are 5/16" 18 TPI.

Be careful with blindly tightening the adjustment. Too much clutch throw WILL damage the pressure plate(over-extending the springs) requiring replacement.

All of us Speedster owners/drivers will now exit to the left side of the stage and show ourselves to the door.

Thin skin, Robert? It's all in the details. It was in the thread title.

Lighten up, Sheriff.

Carey's comment about idle speed is a good one. Push clutch in, count one, two, then try reverse. Also Mark's comment about broken motor mounts. I hope the OP fixes his problem is all, rather than wasting energy chasing false leads.

@DannyP posted:

Thin skin, Robert? It's all in the details. It was in the thread title.

Lighten up, Sheriff.

I guess I should have included the laughing emoji so you would see that it was meant to be lighthearted humor. There's more Spyder only material here now that the Spyder Club is over here now. Some of us tend to forget there's any differences in the two designs.

That would help.

See?

Speedsters Versus Spyders (You choose)   😉

I don't know Gordon, if you look closer.....

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@DannyP posted:

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...Be careful with blindly tightening the adjustment. Too much clutch throw WILL damage the pressure plate(over-extending the springs) requiring replacement.

Hey kids, this is a real thing, whether you've got a Spyder (with a cabled clutch) or a Speedster.

Let's not go into the little boring details about how I come to know this.

Folklore tells us if there's more than an inch or two of free play at the end of the clutch pedal, you need to crank in on that wing nut at the lever arm on the transaxle until the 'problem' is 'fixed'.

But folklore never follows with the advice Danny gives above. The pedals in our cars will allow you to keep on pushing down until that little hook on the back of the pedal grinds into the rug. There's nothing in the clutch itself that limits motion to protect the springs in the pressure plate.

Maybe the geometry of our pedal installation is different than it was on the beetle, or maybe the lever on the transaxle is different, but whatever the reason, this is a thing.

And it's hard to know right away when you've gone too far with the adjusting wing nut. I ended up putting a block on the bottom of the clutch pedal, keeping it from going all the way to the floor.

There's probably a more elegant solution, but I'm not good at elegant.

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@DannyP posted:

Yeah, a Vintage Spyder has no cable clutch like a Speedster. Disregard above comments.

The Spyder has a 5/8" master in the front and a 7/8" slave cylinder in the rear(usually, but sometimes people use different sizes…

Check and see if there are TWO nuts on both ends of the slave. If locknuts aren't used the  nuts can back off and that could be your problem. Threads are 5/16" 18 TPI.

Here’s Jamar’s version, but they’re all pretty much the same. If the outer (lock) nuts get loose the inner (adjustment)  nut loosens or tightens every time you push your clutch in.

So I feel like getting into first is even a little tough.  Got to push it, and I wish it was a little smoother/easier.  When I try go into first, and then reverse... Reverse still grinds a little.  And first gear is tougher to get into than I remember.

Are the recommendations to:

1. Flush the system first?
2. Adjust the hydraulic clutch slave.  Does anyone know what I would be looking for when adjusting?  I read " If the outer (lock) nuts get loose the inner (adjustment)  nut loosens or tightens every time you push your clutch in"  So I'm not sure what to fix in that regard.
3. Replace the "Wilwood hydraulic clutch slave" that I have in the car?

Flush, then get back to us.

Cuz, we gots to know.

Cool.  Will do.

@MichalM I've never seen a clutch slave get tighter on it's own, only loosen.

The other possibility that hasn't been mentioned is the clutch cross shaft. The welds on it can fail, slowly. You can't see it without pulling the motor. You'll get a slowly deteriorating clutch action, then eventually no clutch at all.

Flush and bleed, then tell us how you made out. Then post some pictures or maybe even a video of the clutch slave operating.

We'll help you get it sorted, just try to have a little patience.