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Hi everyone! I’m the proud new owner of a freshly built VMC Speedster Replica and am feeling blessed beyond measure! So much fun! Amazing build quality! The issue (I thought) I was having was way too much slop or free travel side-to-side in the shifter arm while in gear. In each gear, the shifter arm is loose, lots of travel left-to-right. This vehicle has the Vintage Speed Classic Shifter.



I’ve since learned that this is actually how the Vintage Speed Classic shifter is designed, and the side-to-side movement was designed into the bottom ball mechanism at the bottom of the shifter arm in the base housing to reduce pressure on the detents while in gear. Apparently, it’s unable to be adjusted to be tighter. Front-to-back sloppiness is agreed to be bad though. I don’t have any front-to-back sloppiness, and all gears engage crisp and clean, just a whole lot of left-to-right movement in the shifter arm while in gear. I have a dozen hot rods, all manual transmission cars, old and new, but had never experienced left-to-right free play in a shifter arm like this. And so I thought I would post here to the group just to share the news that if you are having the same issue with your Vintage Speed Classic shifter, we can rest assured it is designed to be this way. Thanks everyone and glad to be part of this forum!  Cheers!



The instructions seem to suggest there is an adjustment that can be made to get rid of this looseness, but apparently only for the Vintage Speed Black Mamba Shifter (not the Classic Shifter)

Installation instructions for Vintage Speed Black Mamba and Classic Shifters

TO ADJUST CNC MACHINE BASE FOR TIGHTER OR LOOSER FEEL 1. Loosen the M5 bolt near the base of the shifter (see photo)- 2. Adjust the feel of the shift lever by turning the top of the housing.(see photo) 3. After setting up the housing tension, tighten the M5 bolt to 7.3 ft\lbs. ( 10Nm.)

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@Red99 welcome to the madness. I have it bad!

IMG_5755

I was wondering the same thing, whether something might be wrong with my VS shifter. I’d prefer it didn’t slip around but it isn’t all that much and it seems to shift fine. I just wish it was possible to tighten it a little. If I wanted slop, I’d get a 901!

For the benefit of others reading this, it slops almost as much in gear as in neutral. In fact, it’s a little tricky to tell the difference between a gear and neutral. At least with a 901, it’s relatively tight when you find the gear, and neutral is really obvious. I find it hard to believe they designed it that way. Please let us know if you find a way to buy another bushing or otherwise make it crisper.

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Last edited by Teammccalla

I just got back from a bike ride and was thinking about this while on the road.

So far, we don't really know what's going on, other than the shift lever has "a whole lot of left-to-right movement in the shifter arm while in gear."  Another thing we sort-of know is that a LOT of people are running Vintage Speed Shifters and do not have excessive movement in the lever - They are quite happy with them.

I tried my Berg shifter and, when it is in any gear, I can move the lever sideways about 5/8" stop-to-stop.  It doesn't move forward or back at all.  I suspect most Vintage Speed shifters are as tight as that, too.

So what do I think is going on?  I don't think the trouble is in your shift lever or the cup under the lever that the bottom ball fits into.

I think you have a defective shift rod coupler, which is under the carpet right behind the seats.  Flip up the carpet, remove the metal cover on top of the central tunnel right in front of the rear seat and the coupler will be inside of the tunnel and probably looks like this:

Urethane coupler

Either that set screw is loose (it happens more often than you might think) or the Lag screw going through the Urethane bits is loose, or the Urethane bits have self-destructed.  If the set screws are loose, the shift lever is free to move in any direction quite a bit.  The same can be said for failed urethane bits, so my money is on something screwy in the coupler.

Order a new one, but try to find a German one, part number 311798211

These guys have German ones around $30 bucks (search for that part number)  You want a coupler for 1968 - 1979

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...pquery=shift+coupler

German Coupler

DO NOT USE THE RED URETHANE VERSION!  They come from Asia and are junk.  Get a German NOS or at least one with German cushion pads.  The coupler is relatively easy to change out - Put the car in first and note where the shift ball is, then remove the shift lever, remove the coupler set screw and lag screw and slide the shift rod forward for clearance and the coupler should come right out.  

When you put the shift lever back in place, try to get the shift ball in the same spot as it was, before tightening the base bolts.  It will probably need a second adjustment to get the shift gates in the right spots, but we can talk you through that when you get there.  I usually scribe a line around the base onto the central tunnel before I loosen the base bolts so I can get everything back in the same plane to line everything up.

I'm betting that a new coupler will cure your excessive lever movement.

Good luck!

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Thank you, Gordon!  

These are great ideas. When you say 5/8”, are measuring at the shift knob?

I had a conversation with another member about how much better our VMC cars could be if VMC offered an option to use ALL of the best parts available. Say it cost $15k extra (including allowing VMC markup on every single upgraded part), wouldn’t the higher quality and extra attention increase the brand image?  We even talked that he might just make the upgrades standard and charge everyone. I know it’s a pipe dream because all auto makers try to shave cost by using cheap parts.  While I don’t really begrudge VMC for trying to increase profit, I don’t want any cheap parts!  It’s frustrating.  I am still happy with my car but I don’t like that often I go to work on a part and I find a part is subpar and the advice is “go buy X” for the quality part. Rant off.

@Teammccalla posted:

Thank you, Gordon!  

These are great ideas. When you say 5/8”, are measuring at the shift knob?

I had a conversation with another member about how much better our VMC cars could be if VMC offered an option to use ALL of the best parts available. Say it cost $15k extra (including allowing VMC markup on every single upgraded part), wouldn’t the higher quality and extra attention increase the brand image?  We even talked that he might just make the upgrades standard and charge everyone. I know it’s a pipe dream because all auto makers try to shave cost by using cheap parts.  While I don’t really begrudge VMC for trying to increase profit, I don’t want any cheap parts!  It’s frustrating.  I am still happy with my car but I don’t like that often I go to work on a part and I find a part is subpar and the advice is “go buy X” for the quality part. Rant off.

Where do you stop with ALL of the best parts available?  When the price hits $100K?  $125K.  I think you are advocating for something that would be impossible to sell except to a very small clientele.

@Teammccalla posted:

I think a $15k package would be popular. Who do you think the target market is?  Seems some are having no trouble selling at $75k on BAT.

It would be too hard to develop the plus package. Start with Konis.

I just went with your original premise, ALL the best parts. My point was you can’t use all the best parts without pricing them out of the market. Could VMC sell an upgrade package for some parts for $15k, absolutely.

It's a not as easy as that, @Teammccalla (what's your name, BTW?).

Not everybody likes the same thing. The Konis you (and I) like would be too harsh for some guys and not stiff enough for others. Regardless, more expensive parts are no guarantee that they're significantly better.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.

The "good stuff option" idea assumes that there are better parts out there and that the builders are just cutting corners to increase profit. Bear with me for a long and boring story.

Before BaT, and before a lot of the new guys came to the hobby, Intermeccanica was the undisputed high-water mark for 356 replicas. Henry Reisner tried mightily to do exactly what you advocate. In talking with him, he said that by far the hardest part about being in the business was the parts that were available for him to use. He either needed to make or remake nearly every part. Carey from Beck or Greg from VMC would tell you the same thing today.

Henry showed me what was involved in getting door handles with lock barrels in them (something people were asking for, "How hard could it be?" they asked). He bought the door handles everybody uses and immediately tore them apart. He bought lock barrels, and fabricated (or had fabricated, which is way harder than it sounds) buttons that would accept the lock barrels. He sent the handles out to be rechromed (to Mexico, if memory serves). When all of the parts were back from chrome, he'd reassemble the entire handle and put it in a box for use with a build down the road.

He made his own windshield frames. We all griped about the gauges until he and Carey from Beck commissioned, designed, and ordered the much better gauges now available. Shortly afterward, the manufacturer made them availably to anybody (after Henry and Carey had paid and worked to have them as a proprietary item). The same thing happened to Greg Leach with the Vintage 190 wheels - Greg paid for all of the setup, and now anybody can buy them from Mobelwagen or EMPI (and do, because they save $10 a wheel).

Back to Henry and trying to buy the very best - with every brake set he bought, he'd throw out the bearings and buy Timken or National replacement bearings and races, and put them in. He didn't trust the Chinese bearings that came with the sets. He'd double the price of the brakes just by trying to get bearings that didn't fail at a 10% (or 30%, or whatever) rate. Regardless, if I'm not mistaken, neither company (Timken or National) makes bearings for old VW Beetles anymore. I bought two CB brake-sets last winter and tried to do the same thing. I ordered FAG "German quality" bearings (FAG is a German company). I got FAG bearings.... made in Vietnam.

The point is, even when I'm trying to install nothing but the best (with cost as no object), I bump up against what is possible with the available parts.

To the shifter in question - I bought mine when Vintage Speed was just starting out, back around the turn of the Millennium. At that time, Ming had a great product - it worked well, it was priced at about $175, and the builder was accessible and amendable to customization (want a shorter handle? No problem!). Now, Vintage Speed is a victim of their own success. Ming keeps changing the design of something that worked perfectly, and keeps raising the price to the point of absurdity. His new shifters are $323, FOB Taiwan, and apparently don't work like they did in 2005.

20 years ago, Intermeccanica would build you a replica with a stable fiberglass body cured under UV light - with flat, Glasruit German paint, a 911 front end with Porsche brakes, a huge trunk, Spineybeck leather interior, with electric side-windows that rolled up and down and a high-quality soft-top on a scissor-frame that worked, all built on a purpose-built frame, with an air-cooled 911 engine and transaxle for over $100k, if every option-box was ticked. They were amazing cars - but they were not perfect, because nothing ever can be, and the platform has limitations baked into the cake.

Everybody complained about the price, and scoffed at those of us who "paid the premium, just for the name". Nobody thought of these as real cars, and at the time, Kirk and Mary would build you a fun and frisky replica for $25K. The build quality would never be mistaken for a Lexus, but that wasn't what they were. We joked about it, because we were all in this as a cheap and fun hobby. Nobody had any idea we'd be where we are today.

The builders are in this to make a living. It doesn't seem like it, but there is a limit to what most sane people will pay for a plastic clown car with a fancy lawn-mower engine, and there's a limit to how long you can spend chasing the last 5% of what is possible.

Prices and quality follow a parabolic curve. From 0% to about 75%, the price/quality relationship is linear - every dollar spent increases quality a corresponding amount. From 75% to about 90%, the costs start to climb precipitously with the quality increasing only marginally. At 90%, prices double and redouble for very little movement. At 95%, the cost line goes nearly straight up, and the money spent may not have any increase in quality. Past 90%, a builder is just spraying the money-hose on a project, and there's nobody anywhere who's going to pay 2x - 10x for no appreciable increase in outcome.

The sweet-spot is somewhere in the 75%- 85% range, where people can see their money at work. High end builders and restorers can push up on 90%, if their clientele are not "value oriented" (cheap). After 90%, it's never going to pay - and the only people who do it are hobbyists who want to play.

That's a poor way to make a living.

The good guys left in this business are doing the best they can to provide customers value for their investment and they have waiting lists measured in years, so they must be doing something right. Increasing costs without necessarily increasing quality in some measurable way is a way to lose goodwill and decrease profit.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I am privy to some of that history, that story, and was even a victim of it as well without blaming any builder at all, there is a learning curve to this madness and it is hard to pass on to a new list member.

Having said this, as time went on the madness would not allow me to exit even if I bought an original car to join the real car club, because I realized that was not going to fix this madness of trying to make even a real car a sort of restomod.  You can see the same behaviour in those who continually flip projects never finding the right one.  Sometimes an old car is just that old and old technology….

Last edited by IaM-Ray

Stan, your post is a very good one.  Good perspective.

I particularly appreciate “The builders are in this to make a living. It doesn't seem like it, but there is a limit to what most sane people will pay for a plastic clown car with a fancy lawn-mower engine, and there's a limit to how long you can spend chasing the last 5% of what is possible.”  Anyway, I suppose Greg could just add another 30 options to his option list, but then he’d be implying that there’s something wrong with his stock stuff.  I do approve of Greg making money.

Konis set on soft are too stiff?  The white $23 shocks caused my car to push pretty severely, but mostly at 50+ mph, which is frankly pretty scary.  I find Konis a lot more comfortable on bumps too.  I live in an area with a lot of old roads that our 9.5% state tax can’t seem to fix (that’s a different kettle of fish).  I think Greg should make the Koni’s stock and add $70 per corner, but my opinion is just that, an opinion.

FYI, my name is Randy.  

Last edited by Teammccalla
@LI-Rick posted:

@Teammccalla, Options slow down the build process.  VMC has a years long backlog. This is why Greg stopped building Spyders and Subaru powered cars.  Streamlining the process will allow him to catch up and then maybe he will take on more custom builds.  I have been patiently waiting 28 months so far for an IRS Spyder kit.

This. And keep in mind: in todays market, parts availability is as much of an issue as price/quality. With a 2 year waiting list, do you use the German part that’s back ordered for ??? weeks, or the one EMPI/CIP can get you on Monday?

Ahhhhh. Ok. Someone did something unmentionable to mine by accident and Greg was very quick and helpful about fixing it. While we were doing the work, we changed around a few things and it’s better than ever. I can’t wait to see your new 550!  

The local Orange County members are very helpful too. One messaged me and asked what my car was doing back there!

Thanks to Greg and others for getting me on the road again.

I agree as he usually does our resident Cyrano distilled it down to a clear message that should be read by all newbies if they only knew how much wisdom there is in that summary.  I have to say that we spend a lot of time trying to explain in convoluted manners, the same message to New members … try selling in this environment… lol

Hi everyone, thanks for comments and ideas and general sharing of information.  Here’s a link to a video I received from Greg via Roy confirming this left-to-right free play in the shifter arm is apparently normal while in gear, nothing to worry about.  The shifts into each gear are clean and crisp, nice short throw, the plate is lined up properly, no complaints other than I wasn’t prepared for how much left-to-right travel is present in the shifter arm while in gear.  I’ve accepted this is the way the Vintage Speed Classic shifter is designed- all good! Cruising this little air-cooled hot rod is so much fun!!

BTW, SEMA is here this week in Las Vegas, anyone going?  Friday is open to the public..

https://youtube.com/shorts/PXE...?si=qV9fmGhhvXUp870V

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