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hi there my name is Jan

I have just ordered a brand new 1915ccm Vintage Speedster here in germany at a local dealer. It should be produced in the next weeks at vintage speedster in USA

I orderd the external oilfilter (without oil cooler). This is my question: Does anyone know about the oil filter is installed? I know, there are many ways it could be... 

full flow with an extra intake for oil in the engine case?

Oil pump with intake and outtake?

Oil filter and pump combination in one peace?

Bypass system of the original 356?

...?

anyone know the way Vintage does it?

 

I ask this cause I want to install the cooler afterwards here in Germany and want to inform myself about the possibilitys 

 

regards from Germay, Jan

 

PS. sorry for my awful English I learned it in school 25 years ago and had no chance to use it afterwards;-)

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Thanks for the fast answers!

I already tried to ask them but they had no idea. 

i just ordered it two days ago , i think Kirk does not know about this order so far...

My fear was, that it is is a filter inside the Engine in the sump. In all other cases it should be easy to install a cooler with an afermarked adapter.

 

 to be honest: I also wated to have a contact to this great forum and place my first write.

On my 2010 Vintage with a 1915 engine the oil filter is mounted to an adapter (probably Empi) that is attached at the oil pump. The adapter also has in and out fittings that my cooler lines are attached to. I do not think this is a full flow system. If your intent is to install a cooler later then you should let Kirk know since these adapters may come with or without the fitting points.

yes, think you'r right i should make a contakt to Kirk, when he's got the order and talk to him!

 

@ Alan: i kow, Vintage Speedster also organise the shipping an I can order there directly but here in Germany weve got no chance to bring the car on the road and get a license plate.

 

The law is so restrictive here. The company, i orderd from will do all these things for me including tax and so on.

 

here in Germany we have a forum in the Internet. it is full with posts from people who tried to do it on themselfs an now they have a beautyfull car in the garage but there is no way to drive it :-(

 

they are realy nice guys, who organise all this for me. Real entusiasts :-)and i think its o.k., if they earn a little money with it.

I've heard these stories before, Jan, so I get why you're going this route. Guys, the German motor vehicle/transportation department (I believe it's called TUV?) is very restrictive; you have to watch what parts are used when modifying your car, as it can be pulled off the road at a moment's notice. I'm not sure how the inspection process works, but I know hot rodders are somewhat afraid of it. No "fix it and bring it in" tickets there...

Yeah bet the MADE IN TAIWAN tail lights and EMPI repro wheels are NOT a hit with TÜV. If your normal car has even visible rust holes or a bent up fender they reject it.  Read in Wall Street Journal last week that they plan to place tolls on German Autobahns.  Countries around Germany have many toll roads but Germany does not.  The controversial plan is to only charge non-German registered vehicles the tolls.  So of course that's viewed by many as discrimination. 

 

Jan, I ordered a new VS in 2013 with their 1915 engine and both the external filter and external oil cooler.

 

The filter is mounted in the wheel well, but it's NOT a "full-flow" system - the engine case had not been drilled for that.

 

Their 1915 engine is pretty much dead stock VW with larger cylinders bolted on - stock after-market heads, valves, camshaft, crankshaft and a non-performance exhaust, so the performance is only slightly more than a healthy stock 1600 cc engine.

 

If you want significantly more power and torque, you'll need to spend more, but spending more is what owning a Speedster is really all about.

 

Wilkommen zum Dummheit!

 

 

 

Mitch- If it goes out and then back in through the pump cover then that's "full flow"; all the oil goes from the pump to the filter, back in through the cover and into the bearings and cooler. The only issue with the out and back in covers is all the ones I've seen or heard of are somewhat restrictive, and (according to other people) above 6,000rpm the small passages in the cover can't move what the pump is feeding them, and this can break the pump drive tang. I have heard of guys enlarging and porting the passages in the cover. The covers with only the "out" passage can move as much oil as the pump can.

 

Look at the http://kaddieshack.com/1600dynoresults.html - they start with a stock 1600 that puts out 50hp, add kadrons and 1 3/8" header for 10hp and a decent torque increase. When they add 1.4 rockers, while it only adds 3 more hp, it extends the powerband by 500rpm without significantly changing either the hp or torque curves in the lower rpm's. The addition of 330 cc's (1585 to 1915) is about 20% and with the increased displacement I would expect a 15-20% increase in power in each of the states of tune. Add an Engle W110 cam (or similar) and increase compression by a point (from 7.5:1 to 8.5:1) instead of the 1.4 rockers (the engine case will have to be split so this is best done at build time) and hp will aproach 90 with the dual carbed 1915 and still have a decent torque curve. This is the best bang for your buck (and already 15hp more than an original Speedster!).And we haven't even talked about doing any porting work to the heads...or Webers/Dellorto's...or a stroker crankshaft....or big valves and more port work...

 

By the way: how much money have you got?

Last edited by ALB

Hi Al, this is also the definition of "full flow", I know (all the oil goes through the filter/cooler) I've had both systems in my engines. 

oilpump cover with in and out in my "close to stock 1679 engine" and

oilpump cover with only out and the intake direktly into the Enginecase in my self buildet 1915 engine. the oil pressure was even slightly higher in the 1679er ( but this might have other reasons...)

I also heard of the problems with the smaler ports in the in and out Version but I ditn't see an problems in my case. even if my engines have never made more than 4500 Revolutions per minute.

But do you think this can break the pump drive tang? I'm just thinking about the tuning oil pumps with more then 36mm ore about the duble pumps for dry sump race engines, ore the oil pump covers with integratet pressure valve. I guess the force witch is workin in this case on the drive tang is even mutch higher.

 

Al, you're preaching to the choir, here.

 

My 1915 is no longer in the car. I had a 90.5 x 78.8 (2026cc) stroker built by Ken Jansen (SF Bay area). It has most of the amenities you describe, and a few more. While only about 100 cc bigger than the 1915, the difference in power and torque is like night and day.

 

Jan was asking about how the VS 1915 is plumbed and I was confirming it uses the oil pump cover plate for both in and out.

 

I've had a number of aircooled mechanics shrug and say, "Daggnabit, that ain't no steenkin' full-flow set up."

 

So, I guess technically it's 'full-flow', but doesn't circulate oil nearly as well as having a large exit port at the pump and another large return port somewhere else in the case. This becomes even more important if you add an oil cooler in series with the external filter.

 

I was wondering how to translate 'the cowboy way' into German.

 

 

My apologies, Mitch (and Jan); I start on a topic and quite often it kind of writes itself! Someone will get something out of it, I'm sure.

 

 The extra power in your 2026 is (in part) from the lower rod ratio; it creates more torque down lower in the rpm range, and is one of the reasons stroker engines are just so much more fun! But you already know that. VW first experimented with this in the type 4 engines so they could use smaller engines in the much heavier bus, and continued with what they'd learned in their watercooled engines. I was told (or maybe I read it? who the h*ll knows...) that Honda uses rod ratios as low as in the 1.5's (very short rods) in some production engines, and (I guess due to piston design and pin placement?) has no longevity issues.

 

For those of you that do not know- When using a longer stroke crankshaft the rod ratio goes down (especially if you stay with stock length rods) and, as I said above, this creates more low end power. VW was very conservative with the 1600 (they were looking for longevity) and the rod/cankshaft ratio (divide the rod length by the crankshaft length, so 137 divided by 69 =1.99) is quite high by today's standards. With a 78mm crank and stock (137mm) rods the ratio drops down to about 1.76. Porsche used shorter rods (136 or 135mm) with 74mm cranks in their 15 and 1600's and these engines moved their cars along surprisingly well for such small engines.

 

The pumps with the out/in covers aren't the best solution, but for an engine that peaks below 6,000 rpm they do work. As noted earlier, some of the passages in the cover are smaller than ideal, which restricts oil pressure down the line and the pumps have bigger gears than necessary (usually 30 or 32mm) to compensate.

Jan- Those smaller passages can only flow so much oil, and above about 6,000 rpm the pump is pumping more oil than can go through the cover, and as you rev it higher it gets worse. This is what breaks the pump drive tang (so I've read; I've never seen one or know anyone who's experienced it). If the engine peaks below 6,000rpm then this isn't an issue.

 

And yeah, while what we normally think of as "full flow" (out the cover and back to the case just before the oil pressure sender) is better- bigger openings for no restrictions, better pressure numbers and the ability to use a slightly smaller pump for achieve this with less friction/pumping losses, a pump with either the attached filter or out/in cover work for milder engines will work. It's not optimal, but it can be installed without drilling the case for the return line, and this is the attraction. And guys- again, I apologize if you already know this stuff; I'm sure someone will benefit from it. Al

 

And Jan- I have no idea what Mitch said! 

Last edited by ALB

Kirk's oil filters are full flow from the oil pump. Add the external oil cooler and get it with a thermostat so it only functions when the engine is warm. You should also make sure your engine is fitted with flaps and a thermostat. That will help the engine generate enough heat to get heat in the car. You might want to consider the heater mod that Kirk does also. It bypasses the frame and you will get HEAT and air flow into the cabin. I live in a cold area and until I added the T control to the external cooler and the heat mod my engine never go hot enough to allow me to drive the car in cold weather. 

hi all!

I just got the first pictures of my speedster. And what can I say? i know, you all love your speesters but for me, mine the  most beautyfull car What was ever built in the world! ;-)

o.k. there are some problems with the shipping of the car from los angeles cause of an solwdown at the port but vintage triees to ship it via Houston to Germany. First I hoped, that it will arive on my birthday (tomorrow)... this will not work, but maybe in 4 ore 6 weeks. so, sorry for all of you, who thought the most beautfull car is in you garage, its on the way to me *lol* you don't believe? see it yourself:

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Jan Peter--there is just something very strange about a replica of a German car being made in America and shipped to Germany. At least a large part of it (the pan) actually started out in Deutchland!

 

But you are right---it certainly is a gorgeous car and I know you will definitely enjoy it.

 

 

And----welcome to the "madness"!!

A full flow filter is by definition an external filter. It is attached at the oil pump. If you order the external oil cooler be sure to get the temp controlled valve. That was the oil will not flow to your cooler until the engine reaches operating temp. In a cold climate your engine may never reach operating temp with the external cooler. That being said you will never get ANY heat. Germany is cold in the winter so you should also have Kirk install the heater frame bypass kit. Engine noise in the cabin will be louder but you will have plenty of heat and not need for an external gas fired heater. Or just do not drive it in cold weather. Not having the engine reach operating temp is real bad in the long run. 

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