vintage speedster ride height/front suspension.

hello, had my vintage for about 2 years now and generally very happy with it, i have done some fairly major work to the suspension including cb wide 5 disc brake conversion, cb dropped spindles and a complete new cb front beam with adjusters. My problem is although I have lived with this set up for 18 months, and having raised the front to the maximum on the adjusters it still sits too low!. The way I see it have 2 options:

1 To remove the dropped spindles and gain 2.5" in height, but possibly sacrifice ride quality.

2 To again change the front beam for a stock one no adjusters and dropped spindles, which may have better ride quality but no adjustment in height.

What is the census of opinion, the reason I opted for the adjustable beam and dropped spindles was to give me better ride quality with the ability to adjust the height, but this doesn't appear to have worked

You can eliminate the 2.5 spindles and go with removing the smaller bars inside of the beam. This will give you a softer ride while maintaining the stock height. Or, your plan #2 ... ~Alan

the adjusters on the vintage are set different top and bottom for a reason, the top are full soft, and it seems to make a difference in the ride quality, check here under search for front suspension. bill

Or go with a different profile tire - 50 series will make very low where 60 or 65 series might add inch. I'd try a stock beam first - as a used one probably isn't much plus you could alwayus customize it later to tune to desired height.

Matt, I'm in the same situation as you-2.5 drop spindles with Airkewld disc brakes. Unfortunately, I do not have an adjustable beam. With my present wheel/tire setup it looks like my front tires will make contact with the fenders if I hit a bump while turning.
I may end up going back to stock (drum) spindles to bring my ride height back up.
If it wasn't for the fact that I just received my new Koni shocks, I would go with stock spindles and buy a coilover kit from here: http://www.red9design.co.uk/type1.htm
I may still end up buying the coilovers and sell the Konis on SAMBA.
The coilovers allow for a 0"-2" drop, which is just what I'm looking for. 1.0" to 1.5" would be perfect, while 2.5" is too much.
Ron

Thanks for your prompt response to my questions:

drclock - I think the removal of the dropped spindles and replacing them with standard spindles may be my first move as it could well be the cheapest and most straight forward, as if it is too high I can always fine tune it with the puma adjusters on the beam. If it's too rigid I might try removing the small bars as you have suggested.

william demeter - I aknowledge the vintage beams are different with only one adjuster, however when I got mine which was built in 1997 it wasn't working right, real problems with the front end, serious knocking noise, pour steering, lack of anti roll bar it was a bit of a death trap, so I changed the whole front suspension complete spindle to spindle.

Wolfgang - Initially when I changed the suspension/steering I put the original 5.5" x 15" mangles back on with 165's on but they rubbed at full lock without hitting any bumps due to the combination of the drop spindles and adjustable beam and the increased track width due to the drop spindles, so I changed the front wheels to 4.5" x 15" with 145's as the bug boys tend to go for which along with adjusting the steering stops, stopped the rubbing problem.

Ron O Black - So you have dropped spindles with a non adjustable beam and you think it may foul the fenders, thats what I need to no, that rules out option 2 then, i have also looked at Red9design's set up but rather than the coilovers, I have toyed with the idea of using their independent wishbone suspension and rack and pinion steering but at

I'll likely have my coil over kit from Red 9 for sale soon if anyone is interested. I think there's pics in my folder of part of it installed. Only got about 1,000 kms at best on it. As soon as I get off the crutches I'll be pulling it off the car to make room for the Red 9 coil over A arm front end.

Brian, it's funny you should mention Red 9's full front suspension-I'm thinking of going the same route. I see by your photos that you've already purchased the full front suspension? Did you come across anyone who has one of these front suspension kits installed on their car-some feedback on steering difference, ride, etc?
Ron

I just went to the Red 9 site again-that front suspension kit looks VERY nice. The pound/Canadian dollar exchange looks good. What was the shipping to Canada? Also, what spring rate did you go with?
Ron

Yep Ron, the exchange is very favourable. shipping to Yellowknife was about 300 Pounds if I remeber correctly. Be prepared to wait though, they build them as they are ordered and he has to special order the left hand rack and pinion. Still, it looks very nice. The whole frame is zinc plated however he uses a disc brake spindle and your BAD brake kit with the Wilwood calipers won't fit on that...you'll have to figure something else out.

Problem with my car is that the IM front frame where the beam saddles are is wider than stock by quite a bit. I am going to have to cut that off the frame and then weld up a little subframe to get the front end to marry up to my car. If your car is a VW frame car you should not have that problem.

You will also have to fabricate up some different mounts for the bumper to the frame maybe and that upper brace for the body, on my car it looks like a squared off hoop that goes from the frame up to the body just in front of the gas tank opening, that will have to be redone too.

I did talk to a guy that they installed one into a UK Speedster Replica and he felt the upgrade was worthwhile. Simon at Red 9 helped me with the spring rates, can't recall what it is was but he is fairly knowledgeable about these things.

Pic of one in a UK Speedster replica attached.

I know this topic has gone a bit astray but I'm interested to know if anyone has the red9design wishbone set up on a vintage, curious to know how it performs, ride quality, steering etc. I am in this case fortunate enough to live in the United Kingdom and have seen this set-up up close and spoke to the manufacturers about it. It's just having spent

Matt, I know what you mean. I just rebuilt my front suspension, added an expensive front disc kit that won't work with Red 9's spindles and just received my new Koni shocks. Rather than pulling my beam to have adjusters installed, I'll probably find a used set of drum brake spindles and swap out the Airkewld drop spindles. Another option is to try a set of 6" wide wheels with a 50mm offset. This high offset may pull the wheels in far enough to clear the fenders.
Ron

Ron I have a new front beam with dropped spindles and drums 4x130 looking to change things up ?

If I decide to go back to stock height the only part I'll need is a set of drum spindles.

Ron, I noticed that Red 9 now offers a couple of spindle options with the A arm suspension. I bet they could do one up to work with the BAD/Wilwood brakes. My problem is that I got the Wilwood brakes after the front suspension...but I'll make them work somehow, someday.

Brian, thanks for the info.
Ron

Ron, I'm glad I'm not the only one having problems with ride height, having said that looking at some old threads where other speedster owners have measured the ride height, mines only 1/2" lower at the front. So perhaps if I re-position the licence plate in the short term that might just do it. With regard to the front going for a different offset on the front wheels, I have I went for 4.5" wide rims with a different offset and skinny 145's as the bug boys tend to and it hasn't as yet fouled the fenders, and looks ok from the side and front as long as the wheels are straight, but if the front wheels are turned it can look a bit like a 'soap box racer'!

I was thinking of trying the dropped spindles to improve the ride, but don't want to go any lower. Thanks for the info.

Has anyone looked at Mendeola's S2-T1 front suspension?

http://mendeolamotors.com/motors/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147&Itemid=110

Bill, the Mendeola kit looks nice, but $4000 is a bit steep.

Not as steep as a IM! Here in California they aren't easy registered.

Ron, does your IM have a VW front suspension?

Yes-mine is one of the old pan cars.

With a NEW IM with the 911 suspension its a whole new thing!

Good news guys, The new self fixtureing bolt/weld on unit is $3300 spindle to spindle... And we are the only fully adjustable a-arm front end out there. We are also the only after market front end for vws that have sway bars.

Our chassis will out perform a brand new Porsche Cayman, with a lat G rating of 1.05 "G's" when used with our trailing arm rear end.

Hi Kevin,
What front and rear are you talking about?
What size tires are needed for those G numbers?
Has this been applied to a Speedster replica yet?

Please R & D my Speedy so it doesn't ride like the Cal Bug I had when I was a teenager!!!

Bill,

We make an entire front a-arm set up and rear trailing arm package for any type 1 (bug/ghia) based vehicle. The pictures I've attached is a chassis we are currently putting under a 57' oval window bug. It also has our 5 Mendeola transaxle. Roll cage optional. Also you'll notice that we can install our a-arm set up on standard type one chassis or super beetle chassis. The super beetle chassis will provide a place to attach the front bumper and make it so it will take an impact.

Tire and wheel sizes are 17x7 with a 205/40/17 front, 18x8 with 215/40/18 rear under stock VW bug fenders. There are other tire and wheel sizes that can be used depending on aplication.

As for ride quality: this chassis rides on fully adjustable coil over shocks on all four corners and un-like most lowerd bugs, the suspension is not all bound up causing a hopping ride. These chassis ride like a new sports car.

As for handling: One of the main reasons our chassis out handles that other a-arm set ups is our set up, there is more to handling then just making it an a-arm front end. Not only can we adjust shocks on all four corners, we can also adjust camber, caster, and toe in the front end as well as toe and camber in the rear end. This alows us to fully tune the reactions of our chassis to any condition or driving style.

Kevin, very nice!

Thank you Kevin,

Will the Oval be on display at the VW Classic next month?

We are doing everything possible to get it to the VW classic