Vintage Speedsters Engines

If someone knows---are the engines used in Vintage Speedsters "done" at VS? Or is an outside company like GEX or someone else used?

Thanks!---Jack

i thought most used SCAT crate motors.

My understanding is that Kirk's motors are prepared in Mexico.

I knew that the cases were Mexican but thought the engines were prepared in Los Angeles somewhere.

What's the story?

Thanks---Jack

Call and inquire......

Alan--I did call and incredibly they have no record of my car--they just don't keep build records by car. They were very helpful with a couple of suggestions, however. I have more documentation on my frikin' dog that on my Vintage Speedster. ---Jack

Jack,

I'm surprised you can't find a VS manual. I have one that came with the car, over 40 pages and good illustrations. Plus, there are 5 pages of wiring diagrams including the horn. I'd bet Kirk has them. It's actually an assembly manual, the one I have is titled:

Vintage Speedsters of California
Owner's Manual Kit

Mike--yep I got the Vintage manual and it's great--especially the wiring diagrams--it will be very helpful. That's one of the nice things Kirk did for me---to reccommend the manual.

I was just wondering about who "built" the engine --did it come from Mexico as installed or was a builder used. There are some things I am still sorting out and felt that if I could speak with the actual builder I could understand some things like:

1. Why are there 20 washers on the outside of the alternator pulley? (!!!)
2. Why are the fanbelts I ordered as spares so much larger that the one that came on the car? Yes--they are for an alternator. I didn't know there were different sizes.

Also--more documentation can actually be found in the CMC builed manual which can be downloaded from this site. Alosmt exact same construction as VS but better drawings and instructions. Different wiring though.

--Jack

yes - the CMC drawings leave much to the imagination.

Extra washers on the outside of the pulley as the belt stretches with use, you add washers between pulley halves to take up the belt slack but stilll able to twist the belt a 1/4 turn with your thumb and index finger..too tight and you increase alt. bearing load .

Alan--have you got it backwards? I thought removing washers tightened the belt?

Still 20 washers---isn't than enough for maybe 4 cars??? ---Jack

Thanks Jack for catching my Senior Moment....
Remove washers between pulley halves to tighten, but you already know that.

"Still 20 washers---isn't than enough for maybe 4 cars???"

Yup! You really only need to "store" four or five washers under the pulley nut collar. The remaining are extras.

Not of any use . . . . really . . . . best that you send them off to me.


Or better yet, put them in your emergency spares kit.

Bingo chips Jack !

Jack; this is what I know. Kirk gets VW of Mexico factory built longblocks. That's the basic engine if you want a 1600 cc. If you order larger displacements they just disassemble the longblocks; machine the case and heads to accept larger pistons and cylinders and put them back together. Kirk once told me he had an engine builder as well as a transaxle builder in his area. I'd say they're an OK engine and will last long if you don't flog the hell out of them. For high performance situations you're better off getting a nice chromoly counterweighted crank as well as a performance cam and ported heads, etc.

With respect to the belt size; FYI, Kirk uses Porsche 356 generator pulleys in the alternator to help in cooling (about 11% improvement in fan speeds as compared to stock VW size). Since they're a little smaller than a stock VW you need a smaller sized belt.

Hey Ricardo--wow! Really wonderful information that will be of help to me and many others out there with VS Speedsters wondering why the hell their replacement fanbelt won't fit a VW engine!

I have complained of lack of documentation for replicas---not just VS Speedsters, but for about all of them and this is a prime example.

Someone earlier said that I should get the vs owner's manual, which I did. It certainly had zero mention that a Porsche 356 belt was used which would have been helpful to know and would have saved me the trouble of buying "standard" sized belts (who the hell knew??) and now having to pack them up and return them. Likewise the spare "standard" spare pulley I ordered---same deal.

Kirk's use of the 356 pully and belt makes great sense and is to me, that's a really smart approach. It would have been nice to know 3 weeks ago though. Also this explains why 20 washers were put behind the pulley as a spacer was needed to account for the non-standard pulley. I can tell you that it's no fun to have to remove 20 VERY tight washers to replace a belt!! (I did replace some of the washers with a spacer that makes more sense.)

The revelations just keep coming--I hope I learn enough of them prior to needing the knowledge.

Recardo--how do you know this info?? What else can I learn today so I don't end up in Timbucktoo with a worn out belt and the wrong size replacement belt as a spare?

Thanks for this valuable inf, Ricardo !----Jack

Jack wrote: "Also this explains why 20 washers were put behind the pulley as a spacer was needed to account for the non-standard pulley. I can tell you that it's no fun to have to remove 20 VERY tight washers to replace a belt!! (I did replace some of the washers with a spacer that makes more sense.)"

Hold on there, Jack!!! Those spacers are in there for a couple of good reasons!!!

First, there should be a number of spacer washers between the two pulley halves, and some more maybe in front of and definitely behind the entire pulley.

The fan belt tension is tightened by removing those washers between the pulley halves, one at a time, until optimum belt tension is achieved (by pushing on the belt mid-way between the pulleys - it should only allow 1/2" of deflection). There is a small procedure for doing this, but it's really trial-and-error till you get it right. Loosening the belt is the reverse; you add a washer at a time to the space between the pulley halves. Believe me.....one spacer washer between those pulley halves makes a big difference.

The extra washers not used between the pulleys are usually added between the outer pulley half (closest to you from the rear of the car) and the pulley shaft cap. That way, you have a nice place to store them, AND you don't lose them. Overall, I usually have at least ten spacers on the shaft - some between pulleys and some under the cap. Some people have more, seldom less. 20 doesn't sound bad, depending where they all are.

Secondly; Those spacer washers are also used to align the fan pulley with the crankshaft pulley so that the fan belt is not deflected but runs straight between the pulleys and doesn't prematurely wear. You need to do this because the alternators or generators (which come from different sources) sometimes have different length shafts, the position of the flange against which the fan pulley mounts is imprecise, and so you have to compensate for that.

This is done by adding or removing spacer washers (if necessary) from the fan (forward) end of the shaft, between the pulley stand-off on the shaft and the forward pulley half. Adding spacers there will move the entire pulley towards the rear of the engine, removing them will pull it forward. That way, you can get both pulleys (fan and crankshaft) lined up dead nuts. Most people do this by eye, but you can certainly use an appropriate straight-edge do do it, too.

Just one further note: Did you check that spacer you put in for parallelism of both sides? If they're not parallel to each other, the pulley won't run true and will wobble......not cool. Another reason to put the spacers back in - they're each pretty thin (but you've already found that out) and stacking them up usually doesn't present a problem with pulley wobble.

BTW: I check my fan belt tension just once a year, as part of my getting ready to go to Carlisle each Spring.

How can you learn more? Just keep reading this forum (there is a LOT of past knowlege buried in past posts) or check http://www.speedstershop.com maybe http://www.spyderclub.com, or the folks over on the Shop Talk Forums (though they're a bit more "hard-Core") http://www.shoptalkforums.com/

Often, doing using the search function on any of those sites for a specific topic will help you out a lot, but you may have to wade through a number of posts to get what you want.

I have a Gates or Carquest part number for the belt that I use, and I'll try to post it later today.

Hope this helps a bit (Gee......the things you learn on here...)

Well THANKS Gordon . . . there goes my free generator pulley spacers . . .

Will you PLEASE SHUT UP ! !

Gordon---good ideas--especially about having both pulley's exactly
aligned. I necer changed any spacers in front of the pulley though so if it was straight when I got it , it's still straight. I'll take a look though--thanks for this advice!

As far as searching on this site--I do spend lots of time reading past posts--extremely informative and appreciated.

I am impressed daily with how much the folks on here are willing to share knowledge. I imagine that if not for this site I would have joined the ranks of those who put their Speedster on ebay with 1,500 miles! I certainly understand the frustration--too bad they didn't discover this site before making such a decision!

I foung this site by accident ---I saw a link that was posted on the Vintgage Speedster website. I immediately became a "donating member!"---Jack

sorry, TC.......

Um, er.......Jack: Maybe you can find a few extra spacers to "donate" to TC, over there in the heart of Plymouth Pilgrim country.......sounds like he needs'em!!

You're right about the various web sites being helpful to us all.

Many of us were building these cars way before the web sites appeared and were working in a vacuum. Unless you were lucky enough to belong to a local club to get help, you were winging it on your own.

Many of these web sites were nothing but email bulletin boards a few years ago (there were a couple just for kit cars) and the sharing of information was just as generous back then. Now, many of us have gotten into embedding pictures in the posts for clarification of an idea - an even better direction.

In my opinion, though, the friends we've all made on here, and the big gatherings of replica Speedsters both West and East coast, is about the best thing to happen to this hobby in quite a long time and has fostered quite a bit of growth, just in itself.

".......sounds like he needs 'em!!"

No . . . not really so much, but it's STILL fun to poke at ya . . . I'm between deadlines, which is the BEST place to be, and feeling feisty.

I'll second Gordon's statement and add that I doubt seriously I would have a Speedster if it wasn't for the websites. When I had my MG, much of the fun was exchanging conversation and sharing activities with the local club. With the two major Speedster websites I have expanded my circle of friends to cover the country. If this resource wasn't here, I'd have bought something for which there was a local club.

You know, some of those old Bulletin Board guys are still around.

When I was flailing around building my car during the 90's (with almost zero help for several years) I found a Kit Car BBS and subscribed. One of THE most helpful guys on there (at least for Speedster builders) was this guy from New Jersey who helped me a LOT towards the end of my build - Rocky Cimbrec, one of the same guys who helped Chris and me recover from the death of our "Mighty Power Stroke" tow-vehicle at this year's Carlisle meet.

Some guys just seem to be helpful forever.......

gn

Rocky's the Man. I've gotta second that.
He doesn't seem to say much; just there like some spectral Johnny on the Spot, moving his hands and making stuff appear where it's needed.
Certified Good Egg.

Thanks for the kind words, Jack; some of the stuff I've learned over the years being involved with air cooled VW's; the rest I learned from some of the fine folks here so...stick around!!

Rocky gave me quite a bit of quality info in my speedster adolescent years and at times, still does.
What impressd me is the huge book of notes, parts sources and wiring diagrams he has on his "CMC Rocky Big Book".

Alan---"CMC Rocky Big Book" is it on the internet somewhere?---jack