Vintage vs. JPS

I am in the process of ordering one of the leaders in the industry and would like anyones opinion on one vs the other. I have owned and loved a Vintage about a year ago. I guess my question is, should I try a JPS this time? Is there a difference? Or since I know the quality of a Vintage, should I order another??? Help!

Most people posting here are happy with their cars. The Vintage owners will recommend Kirk Duncan; the JPS owners will steer you to John Steele. However, there ARE some differences in the two manufacturers' cars, which may or may not be significant to you.
Rather than toss your "Which is better?" question to the partisan troops at SpeedsterOwners.com, why not decide what you're trying to accomplish with a new Speedster (how you plan to use it, how much HP do you need, how equipped, etc.) and then talk to both Kirk and John and see what they say.
It was my experience that price was not a factor - both Vintage and JPS were within a few bucks of each other for similarly set-up cars. (IM is in its own high-priced universe.)
The details were very important to me and that's really how I made my decision. Both guys make very nice cars.

There are quite a few reasons IM cars are "in their own high priced universe".

No offense intended, George. For purposes of "comparison" VW-pan-based Speedsters and IM's tube-frame jewels are 'apples and oranges.'

One thing that interests me... I have a flared Vintage, yet I have a tubular frame (verified by my engine builder who was quite surprised at this himself) and people are always saying how only IM's have this feature. Anyone able to enlighten me?

Like you John, I am a nut for details. I like nothing more than to spend a Saturday detailing to the "Nth" degree. The more detailed and accurate a car is to begin with, the better I like it. My Vintage was great, quality of build and finish was first class. Not having seen a JPS in person, I guess I need to plan a trip west to see the difference.

Colton,
No one can answer for sure without looking at the car, but it sounds as if you are talking about the subframe which is glassed into the body and mounted to the VW pan. What IM does differently is do away with the pan entirely. This allows IM to locate pieces where they want to without being limited to the locations on the pan. The engine and transaxle in an IM are mounted further forward, you can get rack and pinion steering, etc. However, pan based cars have the advantage of being a VW for all practical (and legal in most states) purposes- any modification or setup that works on a VW will fit a pan based car.

Patrick,

John Leader wrote my sentiments exactly, I won't add anything to his post except to say.... I have a similar VS that I am equally proud of. But I gotta tell you, from pics alone, I'd say John L collaborated and planned out a spectacular example of a replica through John S at JPS.

If you are in the area, or have the time to fly in.... I would definitely look at both JPS and VS. KNOW what you want in terms of custom features and NOS stuff BEFORE you chat with them. John L did his homework and it shows. I think both can meet your needs,,, depending on what you want. JPS appears to be more flexible than VS on customer options.... but then again, you never know about VS unless you ask.

Both have exceptional records on warranty and customer sat.... so either flip a coin or head to El Lay and get some face and behind the wheel time!


Good Luck!!!! and Welcome Aboard!!!!

Jim OKC

(Message Edited 2/7/2003 6:48:36 PM)

I would just like to thank everybody for their level-headed view when questions like this arise. It really adds to the community here. After reading over the threads on SpyderClub.com, I am so happy that owners here can express their views without degrading the other manufacturers.
Happy Speedstering!
-=theron

Jim is right, no matter which builder you choose give a new car a lot of thought/planning and be very clear - preferably in writing - as to what you expect from the builder in options, fit, finish, etc. If you let other people make decisions for you it's an invitation to disappointment. Do it the same as Burger King - have it your way.

Interestingly, there is a Burger King right across the street from Intermeccanica. A coincidence George...I think not!
Ron

Thanks to everyone for their responses. My wife and I will be jetting west in March to visit with both JPS and Vintage. I tend to agree with a few of you that John L has absolutely done his homework. Perhaps JPS should just offer the "John L" edition and make it easier for us "rookies".

Patrick, unless your budget won't fit, take a pass by Intermeccanica in Vancouver, too.

(Message Edited 2/16/2003 1:17:39 PM)

Kirk at VS really doe stand by his product. I've had some issues with the car
and he took care of them even well after the warranty was up. My only problem with VS and JPS cars is that the door panels are not straight. I've seen the same problems with all the cars except for IM's. If you do get one insist on having the doors straightened, bring a wooden yard stick with you and position it length ways on the door to check surface. If you don't want to see any wobbles get a white car.

One thing to think about too is IM's are nice but is it really worth all that money? These cars are not much more than a Beetle mechanically.

J-P






(Message Edited 2/16/2003 1:18:52 PM)

(Message Edited 2/16/2003 1:19:09 PM)

Aloha,

I suppose the reason why IM's have a substantial price increase over the other manufacturers is because it is not so much a VW Beetle, anymore. Yes, the drivetrain is the same between Bugs, IM's, JPS, VS, etc. But in my limited knowledge of lurking around the Speedster webpage and other sources, the IM costs more because they take things one step further. Roll-up windows, tube frames, etc. cost a lot more than VW pans. Of course, the car then loses points in terms of authenticity. I suppose it all depends on what you're going to do with the car. For me, I will probably be living in the PacNW by the time I can purchase one of these cars, so I would like to have roll-up windows and a few other features that I'm willing to pay for...to have a daily driver. If you live in SoCal or Hawaii...side curtains should do you perfectly fine. Probably wouldn't be worth the extra $$ for an IM.

I know roll-up windows seems a little trivial...but...rain is COLD in Oregon!

Theron - Do you frequent Spyderowners.com very much? I lurk over there as well, but that place has ZERO traffic. What gives? I'm assuming Spyder replicas just aren't as popular.

aloha,
Joel

Maybe, when making a comparison between Intermeccanica and the rest, one might also look at comparing...lets say a Honda Accord and a Mercedes E class sedan. Both very good cars and I imagine the Honda, with a V6, could hold its own against the Mercedes. So, why would someone buy a Mercedes E class over a Honda Accord? Because they can and the rest of us can't. Same thing with the Intermeccanica...that's why I drive a 19 year old IM.
Ron

It seems that people get very defensive about there speedsters,especially the IM's

Joel,
I check SpyderOwners.com daily. The traffic is very high, but the exit point is the forums. People click through, look at new pictures and then use the exit link to go to SpyderClub where they can fight with other owners.
If the only discussion that is going to go on is fighting, then I'm glad they keep it at SpyderClub.
And yes, it is a much smaller crowd.
-=theron

(Message Edited 2/17/2003 1:26:33 PM)

I must interject here. Regarding the analogy that IM is to Mercedes Benz as everything else is to Honda. I am not looking for a heated debate but I must say I do believe that statement comes across as being a bit extreme. To say that the fellow from IM is the only man capable of building a sterling speedster example is like saying that there is only one painter capable of generating noteworthy works of art. Personally I do not buy into that. For every Mercedes there is a BMW ;-)

It boils down to "price points." Though IM, JPS & Vintage all build Speedster replica's, they don't target the price point. JPS & Vintage are not competing with IM for the same potential buyers.

If budget isn't an issue, or refined features are desired, IM fills that nitch admiribly. You are paying a pretty penny, but on the other hand, it costs more to build a plush car.

I am not convinced that IM's steel tube frame adds much if anything to the sticker as compared to JPS & Vintage buying a wreck beetle, shortening its pan and refurbishing it. That process has a lot of labor. As the supply of beetles dries up I suspect Vw pans will get more expensive compared to jig-contructed steel tube frames.

You get a fine car from VIntage & JPS, for the sticker a real value. Their potentail buyer pool is different than IM's.

We are lucky there are three manufacturers who are all nice guys and all have good reputations with the vast majorities of their customers, regardless of price points.

The IM is what I refer to as a Silhouette Racer. A tube frame car with the shape of an original. The IM seems to have all the things you need to make a very drivable and performance oriented car. This car can be fast and very safe.

The pan based cars are replicars. They are more similar to the real thing. As such, you start with a 1950s design.

The price reflects modern engineering compared to modern bolt ons. Either way, I love them both. Choose what you can afford and desire.

Chris you missed the point. I'm not saying that the other two manufactures of speedster do not produce a good product. They do. I think that Hondas are excellent cars, and are built as well or better that Mercedes considering the price...and that's the point. MONEY. I used Mercedes and Honda as an example, but I could have used BMW and Mazda etc.
Ron

Perhaps I cannot see the Forrest through the woods here. I simply do not understand how IM

Aloha,

I apologize for stepping on any toes in here. I did not mean to make anyone defensive about their cars. I was just trying to rationalize why one person might choose one builder over another.

For me, I want a modernized version of the original so I can have my cake and eat it. Whoever can do that to my needs, gets my business.

aloha,
Joel

An obvious question begs to be asked: for the price of a tricked-out, high-end replica with a performance engine what features would you get as standard OEM equipment with a new BMW 500 series, Lexus (or name your favorite brand) for the same money. Certainly OEM autos have features and engineering, dealership networks, 100,000 mile tune-up, etc., that no replica manufacturer can touch, however, the OEM cars though remarkable autos may not touch our souls the way the classic Speedster design does. It is a good thing there are basically two price points with replica Speedsters, if there was only one some group of buyers may not be able to afford to purchase a new one, others may find the Vw chassis and non roll up windows lacking.

Switching gears to the new car arena

The entire Speedster Replica market is a sheer bargain, including the most tricked out IM Speedster compared to a turnkey GT40, Daytona Coupe, a 34 Sedan replica on a rolling chassis, or any Cobra that isn't made by ACME Inc. We are blessed boys...... And me? I'd rather be like George and order a full tilt IM speedster than plunk my dimes on a 34 3 window "REPLICA" (and still have change!). As far as comparing any 356 Replica to a BMW 5 series or a Lexus this, or a MB that! Apples and oranges my friends. I drive a new Acura Type 3.2 TLS, a new Yukon, and a pristine last gen Mazda RX-7 with 18" wheels and a real nasty look to it..... all of them are refined and they have all the bells and whistles. But when that sun is out they are mere transportation brothers..... I've had a series of 3 and 5 numbered BMWs too so..... to the point, when that sun is out, I don't give a rats buttocks what sits in our garage....... ONLY the Speedster fits my bill. Put a price on that????? Priceless.

Jim OKC

(Message Edited 2/18/2003 8:49:52 PM)

Your right Jim, my very good friend is building a'32 Ford 3-window coupe from a very good company. It has all the good stuff like independent suspension, Ford crate motor etc. etc. etc., and he has as much money tied up in it as George's IM. and it's not painted or turned a wheel on the street. We are LUCKY!.

Aloha,

Jim, well said. I've recently checked out some of the GT40 replicas and they are EXPENSIVE. They aren't even as nicely equipped as an IM Speedster, but easily twice the price of a nicely optioned-out IM. I rationalize my desire for an IM by telling myself, "it costs just as much as a Z3 or S2000, remember? you want one of those too!" But, like you said, what fits the bill? A Speedster.

aloha,
Joel

Hey guys! SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Let's not give our builders any ideas about what a bargain our cars are. I'm thinking some day of having one built just the way I want it.
he he he!
John H.