Vintage Vs JPS

Hi Guys,
I just wanted to get a few thoughts on Vintage Speedsters Vs JPS Speedsters... They both seem to be good cars, but what do you guys think are the pro's and con's of both?
Any info will be greatly appreciated.
cheers
brad

Best to do a search here as there has been a good number of past and present posts.

I have no idea about Vintage, but own a JPS. Pls see "It's Red" thread for Venders, and do the search thing, as this kind of question comes up often. The JPS cars are well considered, and you will find strong points here on paint and fit/finish, interiors, etc. Very nice. I got the tube-frame and pan option, and the large 2332 engine/tans, IRS and four wheel disk brakes. Very much enjoy the performance of this running gear. If you do the searching here you will find there have been some issues w/ JPS concerning quality checking and sorting out prior to delivery. I think my car was given short shrift in this regard, and so there have been some adjustments needed. As I am mechanically inclined, and like to tinker, so I have made these adjustments myself; JPS has been very forthright about sending new parts, and giving advice/info. While I did not just get in and drive off into the sunset, the car is fun to drive and is stunning to see. This sorting period (ongoing) has had it ups and downs. JPS says it will take about 12 weeks to do a build. In my case it was closer to 24.

Just remember that you'll have sorting issues with whatever builder you choose. Their extent and how the builder takes care of them is what's important.

The JPS is a more refined version of a VS; more attentiion to detail and it takes longer to build plus, obviously, a little more expensive.

I also own a JPS - six years - and completely agree with the foregoing. In addition, John is much more willing to build a "custom" vehicle to your specs, where IMHO Kirk is more into a "standard", although very good vehicle. For instance, John readily installed a recessed rear license, and I have his very first rear deck with two parallel rows of aditional louvers on each side of the rear grille. He also eliminated the small front air grilles, and installed a "hot rod" aluminum engined-turned dashboard. John also has installed quite a few Type 4 engines (requiring a rear motor mount not used in Type 1). John has built a lot of cars besides just speedsters, including Cobras and street rods. That said, I believe that both shops use a lot of the same sources for things like bodies and component parts. Six years ago they were in a friendly professional relationship with one another, not really feeling they were direct competitors. Don't know if that has changed over the years. Hope not.

What about a tube framed car vs a pan?

Whatever are we going to do with you, Bruce? Can THIS!

Good one, Bruce!

Didn't the Klingons eat some stuff like that on Star Trek. I think it was called (appropriately)"gaach"?

Let me see if I can contribute something to this post....I have never...I mean never ever had a better experience buying anything than we had dealing with JPS. John is an amazing guy. AND this was with him servicing a JPS car we bought off ebay! Seriously, John is 100% class.

I don't think a tube frame is necessary. I mean, you're going to spend so much more. Is it really worth it???

wrt Tube frame: recall that JPS offrs a semi-tube frame option. Not special-built and not strictly pan-based, but a hybrid of both. This is what I got w/ my JPS, FYI.

Brad, that is the BIG question here and is always answered in the same manor.. It's YOUR call.. If you are first time buyer you might consider VS then moving up in cost and customized affects with a JPS on your second Speedie. this has been done alot here and I will share with you that I love my VS and am still having fun as a first time driver.. but some day I too may step-up to JPS or IM, just not yet.. All the Vendors I've meant have been A-no1 with me while giving me advice and information regarding both builders!

Good luck, it's a nice choice to have my friend!

Speedster "D"

JPS buys kits from Vintage and builds them.
The Semi-Tube frame is standard for JPS and Vintage.
From the Vintage Web-Site:
"Vintage Speedsters uses a custom built, jig welded, 2x4 inch 11-gauge steel frame. An original VW pan is restored, shortened and welded to the new steel skeleton."

JPS and Vintage are the same basic car; the builder is different.

LESTER JPS DOES NOT BUY KITS FROM VINTAGE
THEY DO HOWEVER USE ALMOST ALL THE SAME VENDORS

If I'm not mistaken, I've read that JPS buys bodies and parts from VS. It seems that Kirk is the primary supplier; mainly due to the sheer volume of cars he builds.

Also, the frame issue needs a little clarification. Both Vintage and JPS use a shortened VW pan with a reinforced secondary subframe built into the body. That subframe is what the Vintage website is describing. The difference is that JPS also offers a complete pan-replacement type square tube frame as an option. Vintage doesn't offer that.

The optional pan-replacement frame allows for better location of the suspension mounting points for a stiffer structure, hence potentially better handling.

If I correctly recall my conversation with John at Knott's, his new "tube" frame does include the original VW rear frame horns and just enough of the original frame to catch the VIN number - conveniently stamped into the chassis in that area. So now you still have a 1971, or whatever, VW chassis, as opposed to a special construction manufacture. This can make a big difference in license, registration and insurance.