Vintage vs JPS

Robert.

Slow down. Take your time. Do much research.
Ernie

Yes Rob; you can get a 1776 and later just change the crank (and possibly rods) to make it a 2110. If I were given the choice between a 1776 and a 1915 I'd go with the 1776 because of the thicker cylinder walls. Although the 94 mm cylinders (in the 1915) have decent wall thickness the 90.5's (in the 1776 and 2110) have more and I also feel that with the 94's the block gets bored a little too much risking strength. You could get a 2110 cc built by Pat Downs at CB Performance or by Jake Raby out in Georgia who I read is doing more Type I engine work again.

With respect to IRS vs. swingaxle, the handling is better with the IRS but it's more expensive because it's an option for VS. The swingaxle is the type of transaxle the original Speedsters had; you can make them handle better by installing a camber compensator (around $50 or $60 and installed in an hour or less). The good thing about swingaxles is that they're more plentiful (IRS production just went 10 years from 1969 to end of German production in 1979 while swigaxles started in the late 30's until '68 in German Bugs while Mexican and Brazilian production never strayed from swingaxles so parts are more plentiful too) and are sturdier and stand to more abuse; that's why they're the choice of VW drag racers.

With respect to bolt pattern the wide five is the same the originals had (I expressly ordered my VS with the wide fives) and in my opinion look better.

Now when I go to CB Performance's web site. They list different shaft and bore sizes than the chart above. Does this mean his engines are "stroked"? The 2110 he sells is 94mm which Richard just recommended against. This is all very confusing to me.

I just checked and VS doesn't offer a 1776 only a 1600. Again, I know I can request it from Kirk but I think these guys do what they do and don't like change. JPS offers a 1776 or 2110.

I thought I was ready to pull the trigger but it looks like there is WAY more homework to be done. I know absolutely nothing about engines in general, let alone VW air-cooled engines. There are so many ways to make a certain cc engine and some seem better than others.

Rob

robert buy mine
2332
then ill have the JPS coupe

robert buy mine
2332
then ill have the JPS coupe

robert buy mine
2332
then ill have the JPS coupe

Ok Rob; I checked the site and he offers a 2109 (94 by 76). Definitely go with 90.5 mm cylinders and stroke it if you desire. (A 2110 is a 90.5 by 82 mm stroke); that's why I said you could get a 1776 (90.5 cylinders by stock 69 mm stroke) and always rework what you have later by stroking it for more displacement. Email Pat Downs and I'm pretty sure he'll gladly build you a 90.5 by 82 combo. Hell, they stock all the good parts!! In fact; the ad says "other engine sizes available". You can also check with Jake Raby in Georgia as he's building engines by the bulk for Carey Hines for his Beck cars and from what I've read in his posts he can give you a price break when he's set up for building those motors if you get one just like the ones in production; that's another good alternative.

buy the cheapest motor that comes with kirks, you will tire of it in short order and buy a stroker, sell the stock motor and put in minimum 2110 or BIGGER.

Listen to Bob. Buy the boat-anchor, and upgrade when you know what you want.

Robert:

Since you "have the hots" to get a Speedster and want to NOT make a mistake with all of the variables available, then try this approach:

Buy a used VS (probably cost you in the mid-to-upper teens) with whatever engine is in it and see how you like it.

MANY people buy these cars (thinking it's gonna be just like a Mazda Miata - it's definitely not) and then decide that (pick one or more) It's to noisey, or smelly, or windy, or stiff, or leaky, etc. Then they end up selling it in a year, having put less than 1,000 miles on it. That's how Jack Crosby came across his - someone else didn't likle it.

If you get a used one, then you can take your time and decide what you like and what you don't, and also get around a drive some other cars with different engines (we all look for reasons to get together on here) to see which one you like best.

THEN you can contract with a builder for the car you really want and sell the one you have, probably for the same money you bought it for, and invest it in the new one.

Make sense?

gn

Gordon, that is exactly what Kirk told me when I first looked at VS.. I could not beleive a guy that makes his living by selling cars was that honest and truthful, and to this day I still respect what he told me over 2 years ago but from that time to every run and trip we take, my VS has run great, and Mary and Kirk are there too! What does that tell ya.. I've only meant John w/JPS at Knotts one time, but I bought my VS used and when I step up to a NEW widebody in a few years I know where to go. period!

Speedster "D"

P.S. I always beleive in doing what feels right! It's not just a dollar investment. listen to your heart and what does it tell ya. NOW pull that trigger..

Buy a Beck and get top-notch customer support from Carey Hines. Do NOT buy a JPS unless you can drive there when you have a problem and weigh everything JPS says. Don't ask me how I know. Both my cars are for sale, but I would definitely buy another Beck from Special Edition! And plan to.

Well, I think I've decided to go with the base engine and upgrade from there. Whether I just mod my engine by boring it to 90.5 and stroking it or getting a whole new engine. I think that is the main issue most have. As for the rear suspension, I'm not racing it on a track and I'm sure the Swing Axel will be fine. Same with the brakes. I get the impression that half the fun of this car is upgrading it just like with computers (which I can build myself).

When I came into this thread I really had the impression the JPS was superior to VS in the small details, but seems that's not the case. I've heard horror stories about both and rave reviews about both. Originally I was going with beck but it's $10,000 more than I want to spend right now. I've even had engine guys contact me via private e-mail to talk with them about "my needs". Problem is they are all in CA and I live in New Orleans. I need to find a mechanic here first. Then get the base car and upgrade from there.

A new question is, what's the big difference between the 4 bolt and five wide other than one extra lug nut?

By the way, thanks to Jack Coberly who was nice enough to meet me in Pasadena yesterday and take me for a rid in his beautiful Wide body Speedster. It was cold out but fun.

Rob

Robert - So why not buy Tom's Beck. If the 1600 is too small, you can always upgrade later. It's a gorgeous, well sorted car.

Robert,
Tom DeWalt's Beck speedster is simply stunning in and out, should you decide in favor of this car, you'll be more than pleased! ~Alan

It's pretty, but not my first choice of color and for that much money I'd want color choice. He's asking more than a new VS base engine. I know Beck is "better" but definitely not an entry level price for a used vehicle.

Rob; like I said in a previous post the wide five rim is the correct look on original Speedsters. In my opinion it looks better and there won't be an additional cost from VS to do it that way (at least there wasn't in my case). About a mechanic in the NOLA area; I wouldn't call myself a mechanic per se but I've been around these cars for so long (around 30 years now) that I'm not afraid to tackle anything provided the right tools for the job are available. Feel free to contact me to help you install whatever or tweak your car; been there done that. For example to install the camber compensator, etc.

Richard,

Awesome! Okay I guess I'm ready to pull the trigger. One more check for used cars within decent distance, if not, I'm ordering a base 1600 VS with a few options like 3.88 tranny, metallic paint and fog lights, etc.

Rob

Rob, welcome to the madness..

Speedster "D"

New problem. Color choice. I'm thinking either silver/whiskey, silver/red or Ivory/whiskey. I'm debating if the Silver is worth the $400 extra for metallic paint. How good does the VS red interior look? Would the Whiskey go well with silver?

Rob

Robert -

These pics are not the best quality, but just as a visual reference for the color combo. When I was looking for a used Speedy replica I was looking for a black/tan combo. Couldn't find a nice one so I ended up buying this 1995 VS metallic silver/navy blue combo. The metallic makes the silver 'pop' in the sunlight...

Anyway, FWIW here are a few of my pics of Silver/Navy Blue that I've owned for 10 years and have logged 95,000Km (60K miles) to date...

Like Jim said, the picture quality is not so hot, but the car is. People are always chasing me down, especially those hairy gays I mean guys on Harleys.

If you don't believe me, check out the latest issue of car and driver. The Porsche Turbo 911 is silver/red.

Good luck, I know this is the part you will anguish over.


Marty G.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet.
It's very difficult to touch up metallic finishes.
You will experience a lot of "road rash" on the nose of your car unless you're using a bra or protective coating. It's very easy to touch up these little nicks with solid colors. The metallics, especially those needing a clearcoat, are a different story.
No big deal if you figure on having the front end re-sprayed every few years.

Marty,

Is that a porsche silver or you picked it out elsewhere? I like it a lot. Doesn't look like Arctic silver on porsche. Is that the standard VS red interior? I like that too!

Rob

Robert, I am pretty sure Kirk called it Crystal Silver. The red is deeper like blood. I'll try to post a pic of a seat that I have that Kirk sent me by mistake. You will see the differnce. Check out Kelly Frazers car too. More modern color(dark red/candy) but very very nice.

Marty

You're lucky in the US! I paid more than

Here are the Vinyl and Leather seats from Vintage. Kirk sent me the Red Leather one in error. The leather seat is a true Red. IMO it does not look good with my silver color. It looks good againts a solid non-metallic color like bright white or solid black.

Marty G.

Heres my interior w black ext.

Personally, I like cinnamon as an interior color to go with silver. Check out porsche website and you can built a Boxster or something and play around with the int/ext colors.

Wow ! $47k for a speedster!
I'll be glad to arrange purchasing and international shipping. I've wanted to retire early for some time now ~ Alan

Justin,

When you say cinnamon, is that the same or similar to the "whiskey" tan that people talk about?

Rob

Robert:

Did you ever order your car? Sent you an email.

Felix

That's cool Felix! Another New Orleanian!