Vintage vs Porsche

I noticed while brousing through some of the pictures that
Henry puts the word "Intermeccanica" on the rear deck lid
in the place of the Porsche name on some cars....
I would very much Like to do the same with the name Vintage....
After all these are not Porsche's....When someone looks at my
car, I try to let them know right away its a replica, because your
appreciation of things changes based on what you know....and I'm not
trying to fool anyone....
Has anyone thought of this in the past, or is anyone else with
a Vintage interested? Maybe we can contact Kirk with the Idea....

I've talked to Henry and I'm sure he will only do this if he is given the badges by the customer. He, as well as the other replica manufacturers, are very careful to respect Porsche trademarks. Porsche lawyers regularly patrol the makers, as well as internet forums like this, looking to protect their livelyhood.
-=theron

I read in an interview somewhere (sorry, no url) that Henry (or maybe it was Frank) took a lot of pride in putting the IM name on their creations. The hope was that IM quality would be so recognized that some day Porsche owners would want to put IM badges on their Porsches. That was tounge in cheek, to be sure, but I thought it was very interesting to see that they are taking quality very seriously, and they feel that they are competing on the same level as Porsche.

If I was working on these cars as many years as these guys have been I would want my name and reputation on the car, and if the customer wants porsche badges they supply them or they wouldn't get put on......I think they still deserve at least one body badge with their name on it.....if they didn't want their name on it I would really be concerned

I talked with Kirk, His comment is that He does NOT supply
the Porsche badge, that is up to the customer...
he can get in trouble with Porsche inc....
When I asked about possibly making up some Vintage letters,
He claims he has a good tool guy but he would have to order 1000
to make it worth his while, and Frankly no one has asked for this
in the past.......So we would be on our own............
I for one would prefer Vintage over Porsche.....
I believe these cars are made better than the originals, and I
think most of you would agree......at least with that.....
how many of you would switch is another story.........

To quote Theron: Porsche lawyers regularly patrol the makers, as well as internet forums like this, looking to protect their livelyhood.
-=theron
If I read you statement correctly, I would have to agree that it is the LAWYERS who are looking to protect their livlihood. If Porsche chooses to be anal (nothing compared to the reputation of Ferarri, from what I have been told) about their marque, so be it. But doesn't this seem ridiculous to you all? The 356 cars have been out of production almost 40 years. What possible loss of revenue would there be at this point. I doubt any of the dealerships would even work on one (original) now, much less as know how or have the tools and experienced staff to carry it off. This is just MHO, but I think Porsche should be flattered that there are folks like us out there who love one of their products no longer in production. If anything, perhaps we should collect royalties for getting the name out there. Just kidding.
my 5 kroner
John H.

Vince:

Henry badges his cars as Intermeccanica as standard. He will put Porsche badging at the customer's request (and the customer has to supply the badges).

I like your idea of having Vintage on those cars made by them, unless the customer requests otherwise. As you say, these are Intermeccanicas or Vintage, etc.

However, the Porsche badging looks terrific and original, and if I were ordering a new IM, I'm not sure which way I would go. But I would have the Intermeccanica maker's badge (which I have now), as that is what it is.

It's the whole 'split personality' aspect of owning a replica. I always tell people mine is an Intermeccanica, and then I get into the explanations.

Heck I agree John. Cobra guys have plastered emblems all over their replicas for years, and don't even get me started on the number of glass street rods with makers emblems..... how about the clone GTOs, Cobra Mustangs, SS's, Hemi-Cudas yada? ooorrrr MGTD replicas. How about the Prey built Auburn and Cords. I know they had period badging, My Dad's company did a lot of their tool and Die and stamping biz... so I saw the cars being built. I could go on and on.

Fact is, I bought a replica. To the degree I prefer, I am hanging badges to make it replicate the real thing.

Most other car groups don't seem so sensetive to this issue....

Jim

As a lawyer with a little trademark experience, I would want to remind (or inform) everyone that Porsche HAS to protect it's trademark by making sure no one else uses it or "dilutes" it. The quickest and easiest way to lose a trademark is to let others use it without proper licensing, etc. Volkswagen has been VERY diligent about this (too diligent, some would say), but I haven't seen Porsche be too stringent about it. I've seen VW shut down websites, and go after after-market parts suppliers who sell ANY ulicensed products bearing the "VW" letters. I believe they went after Rocky Mountain Motor Works a couple of years ago, and they (if memory serves me correctly) had to pull EVERYTHING that had a VW on it, including even keychains, and VW wouldn't license ANYTHING to any aftermarket suppliers.

I will say that I stopped in at Vintage today and spoke with Kirk, and noticed that he is putting "VS" crests on the chrome hood handles, and they look like Porsche crests, but are slightly different.

On a similar subject, has anyone ever noticed the Motorola symbol on the cell phones looks just like the communicator that the star trek people had on their shirts in the original....then to top it all off they name a phone startak.....I'm a little surprised they didnt have old lady Rodenberry on them.........I here she is pretty hard core also

One of the most popular questions is about the badging.
I was surprised to find that most people are VERY understanding when I tell them that we do/will not put Porsche badging on their car.
After all, it is not a Porsche.

We have a company overseas that makes badges for us. I put a picture in my files of the nose script they designed for us. I'm sure the same can be done w/ the Vintage name, and conviently enough it too is the same number of characters.

CEH

Quoting Scott Bell: I would want to remind (or inform) everyone that Porsche HAS to protect it's trademark by making sure no one else uses it or "dilutes" it.
Thank you for your input. Clearly you are better suited to speak to the legal implications in the argument presented here and my knowledge and memory of business law are limited....too many years. As a practical matter, however, the (unauthorized) "use" or "dilution" (of intrinsic value?) that you are speaking about would translate, ultimately, to a loss or potential loss of revenue by Porsche, wouldn't it? I don't see that here. Maybe you can illuminate me.
Thanks
John H.

John,

Actually, there is not an analysis of loss of revenue or any of that, it's a straight assumption that there is some "value" in a trademark, and if the holder of the trademark doesn't protect it for its exclusive use, then it loses its value (or has no value) and becomes part of the public domain to be used by anyone.

I'm sure Kirk or John or whomever makes 356 replicas wouldn't want to have Porsche looking over their shoulder to keep an eye on their production to uphold certain "Porsche standards" in order to license to them the right to use the Porsche name, and I can't imagine Porsche would want to assume the liability for the safety, etc., of the replicas it's licensed replica builders manufacture.

I'm guessing Porsche lawyers have bigger fish to fry. VS may be the biggest fish in the replica market, in terms of number of cars, and Kirk is obviously wise to avoid using the P word. A person could buy a Porsche badge and put it on a Ford Pinto, but it wouldn't fool anybody. Conceivably our cars may fool many people, driving down the road or parked somewhere that we don't have a chance to tell everybody within site "Hey y'all its not really a Porsche! Just wanna let you know that!" The only problem I think is if someone is trying to make some big $ passing off a replica as an original, acting to profit from a deliberate deception. Otherwise Porsche surely realizes they can only gain in image when people see a nice replica with their name on it. I would be shocked to receive a lawyer letter commanding me to remove the badging from my car or else. Likewise Porsche would be shocked if I sent them a bill for advertising.

Well if Kirk doesn't put the PORSCHE on the back that would explain why on mine, 1600/SUPER is above PORSCHE. I guess who ev er put it on got it backwards.
ed

I guess my next question would be, Is there enough interest
among Vintage owners to research further to find/make "VINTAGE" lettering....
My basic problem is, I'm not trying to hide the fact that I am driving a reproduction, but the minute you park the thing, someone,
or a group of someones with gather and start looking or asking
questions, and I tried getting a personalized plate that explained it
but they were all rejected, If the Porsche logo was replaced with Vintage I believe that would kinda give people a clue....
OR...Should I forget the whole damn thing.........

Glad to learn some aspect of law is "very simple". I agree its not about Porsche and/or their lawyers making money, it is about trademark/tradename protection, and their lawyers aren't doing their jobs if they aren't diligent about pursuing infringements. But I don't think any of us - Porsche, their lawyers, replica makers (as long as they aren't putting on those badges), replica owners - need lose any sleep over this. If replica builder A begins putting Porsche badges on all their Speedster replicas, Porsche doesn't lose their trademark rights if they don't file suit the next day. If Porsche had knowledge of A's infringement but let it go unchallenged for years before bringing suit - thats different, A has a possible defense. If A put Porsche badges on one car this year, 5 cars next year, 10 cars the year after, and so on, I believe Porsche could prevail in legal action on the doctrine of progressive encroachment - even though they didn't immediately jump on it.

I think I'm breaking trademark law with my Porsche badges being attached to my replica, I also break the law every day by going 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit. I would be more concerned if the car was titled as a Porsche, which it is not. Back to Vince's question; I would be just as proud to have VINTAGE name on mine. From 50 ft away it would still fool some people.

Scott has got it right. This isn't about Porsche or lawyers making money from lawsuits.
Trademark law is very simple when it comes to infringement. If you don't protect your Trademark when it is being used illegally, you lose your Trademark.
If a replica manufacturer uses the Trademark "Porsche", Porsche must sue them or they will lose rights to the Trademark.

Knowing this, all the replica manufacturers tread very lightly and don't use the trademark anywhere.
-=theron

A nice illustration might be this: I can make 100 t-shirts with a picture of Mickey Mouse on them for my own use, which is not a trademark infringement. But if I try to sell one of those t-shirts, Disney will nail me to the wall. Accordingly, I can plaster "Porsche" all over my car, and that's legally cool, but if I sell it, Porsche might have a legal problem with that. In practice, our individual cars with "Porsche" in gold on the back is not a concern for Porsche, I'm sure, but Kirk or whomever is manufacturing and selling cars with "Porsche" on them might be a real concern for Porsche from a trademark standpoint.

I tell everyone who asks that my car is a replica. Does Porsche care? Nope. If I make them and sell them, you bet Porsche would care.

Porsche may not come after you, but the highway patrol will.
Ron

The rights to a trademark can be lost through abandonment, improper licensing or assignment, or genericity. A trademark is abandoned when its use is discontinued with an intent not to resume its use. Such intent can be inferred from the circumstances. Moreover, non-use for three consecutive years is prima facie evidence of abandonment. The basic idea is that trademark law only protects marks that are being used, and parties are not entitled to warehouse potentially useful marks.

I was hoping to find the appropriate style-ized & matching lettering to spell the word 'too'. Then when I put the Carerra badging on my speedster look-alike it could say 'Carerra too'. Implication being it is as much a Carerra as it is a Porsche, and it would look kinda fun on those days when the real-ish Carerra is parked along side of it in the driveway... but as far maker name plates, I can't get to fueld up about it. With a few exceptions there is already enough elitism amongst loyal replicar owners.

I did frame the big ol' nosehair I found in my paint job fresh from the manufacturer...ah, fond mammories.
My bent penny's worth

Thank you one and all for the explanations of trademarks. I certainly think that I have a better understanding of what they mean to a manufacturer. This is the last time I will bring this topic up, at least until further senility takes over. My builder will not install Porsche logos on his cars either. What an owner chooses to do after that is left up to that owner.
Case closed?
John H.
H2OPLEZ

Vince, I think you have a worthy idea, but the thing about it is - its the shape of the car from a distance that first attracts attention. People either don't know what it is, and they are simply curious, or they think it must be an old Porsche. And if they are attracted enough to walk over and talk to the owner, they already have questions and comments in mind before they are close enough to read the nameplate. So I don't expect putting VINTAGE on it would really make any difference in the attraction factor, confusion and questions from admirers.

Even though I said I would be happy to have VINTAGE on mine - if I had to pay $100 or so for new nameplates, patch and touchup the holes from the old ones because they don't match, drill new holes lined up just so... I've got Porsche on the hood handle, dashboard, and hubcaps too - so I doubt that I would actually bother to replace the P nameplates. But its a good thought and maybe there will be enough interest.

I had a guy compliment me on my 'jaguar' once.....

Ron, this sounds like a real car guy. Did you offer to show him your muffler bearings?

After he viewed the muffler bearings, did you ask him to hand you the anti-freeze?

Okay, now you guys have me worried. I going to go out and check my muffler bearings and top up the anti-freeze in my IM. I couldn't find the radiator, so I guess I should mix the anti-freeze with gas and pour it in my gas tank...right? (I put some in the crankcase for good measure) Thanks a lot...you guys are life savers!' I sure don't want a cracked block!
Ron

Ron O. - Don't quit your day job...

Sounds like the guy here in Rhode Island who asked how he should winterize his boat mooring.........someone told him to pour environmentally safe anti-freeze around the mooring to keep it from freezing into the ice during the Winter.

RonO, if you heed the sage advice offered here, your IM will last forever. I'm proud to be part of a group of such bright, well informed guys and gals.
John H.
ps. When you checked the muffler bearings, did you remember to close the finortin valve???

John, don't you go making fun of me. Even I know that the finortin valve is the valve that lets the sewage from a motorhome's holding tanks flow into the sanitation dump. And dude, you don't want to leave that open! I can see how you could get them confused....it involves a type of fume....just not exhaust fume. I hope I've set you straight....and as Red Green says,"If the girls don't find you handsome, at least they can find you handy".
Ron

Too the moon, Alice!
Ron

I can manufacture cnc aluminum badges, of course If the badge reads a company name, that company will have to order directly, I can make a few no requirement of minimum quantity, so if the manufacturers are in this site and need a few free samples, please send me an e-mail stevelangford@usa.net

thanks

no intention to comerce with them read FREE

RonO: I'm definately a big fan of Red Green and I know that he is probably the last man on the planet I would let work on my car. He had a sketch where he was replacing a headlight assembly, removing the old one with a crow bar. Funny stuff!
John H.
BTW, I think you are confusing the finortin valve with the EdNorton valve.