This is probably old news but I just saw on Facebook that VMC will no longer be taking orders for Suby cars. Only Pat Downs built air cooled engines. Heard that he may be cutting back or discontinuing Spyder builds. I think the speedster business is just so profitable. I know that he is building only a very limited amount of coupes. Hopefully mine will start after the current coupe he is building is complete.
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I talked to Greg months ago, and he said this was where he was headed.
I’ve said lots of times, building a coupe is easily 2x the work of a Speedster. With the backlog in Greg’s shop, unless a coupe costs 2x a Speedster, he’s passing profit potential to build them. 50 speedsters/year are more profitable than 20 coupes, especially if they’re crazy builds.
Ditto Subaru engines - there’s a lot of complexity there, and EJ25 cars are now nearly 30 years old, meaning a full rebuild or an Outfront engine. It’s nowhere near as easy as just dropping a nice T1 and regeared 4-speed in the car. BaT likes them like that better anyway.
The Spyder thing is curious. They shouldn’t be harder to build than a Speedster, and they’ve always commanded a premium.
I stopped by VMC on Tuesday and spoke with Greg. It's correct, he is no longer accepting orders for Speedsters with Suby engines or Spyders. The problem is that he has to rely on too many suppliers to get them built in a reasonable amount of time and it was just a big headache for him. He expects that his decision will help reduce the build time for his air cooled Speedsters.
This may be correct for Suby Speedsters and coupes. I think Spyders with Subaru's will continue. This is just based on what I know he's doing right now but perhaps he's changed his mind recently..........I'll ask him next time I see him........Bruce
Looks like Troy got the latest scoop........Bruce
I think the Spyder space frame is more laborious than doing a speedster pan.
l hope I can build a coupe. Greg has not given me the price yet. If it’s crazy high I’ll just build that blue speedster you love so much Stan. But in Porsche grey black with the red seats.
It’s been almost 2 years since I decided to build a 356 and at this point my Type 4 just needs a home.
But I’d really like to build the coupe.
Unless I misunderstood, I don’t think he’s accepting orders for Spyders at all, Bruce.
Glad I currently own a VMC Suby Spyder. May become quite rare.
I find it hard to believe Greg is going to give up building Spyders, as he has definitely invested time and money into developing IRS and possibly IFS for the Spyders.
In case anyone missed the photos that Bruce posted, look here. https://www.speedsterowners.co...8#706429200270055558
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Sounds a lot like why Ford stopped building cars.
It wasn't that no one was buying them, there's just a lot more profit in SUV's and trucks. The fewer lines they have to produce, the more production is streamlined, and the more resources they can focus on what they do make.
Greg's delivery delays may be caused by many factors, but the bottom line is they're swamped with more orders than they've ever had before. I can see how, from his perspective, this looks like the most reasonable path forward.
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Wow. Our world is shrinking every day. I understand the business aspects of his decision, but it still surprises and saddens me.
Im sure Carey will continue to offer Suby cars. I get the impression he likes the reliability of his stock EJ engines. However, he might want to follow Greg's lead and simplify. The Super Coupes are crazy complex. And I won't even mention Joel's car. Special projects are fun and I'm sure creative and chalanging ... yada yada yada but they are extremely time consuming. And probably not very profitable. I hope Greg will build me a coupe. But if he said tomorrow that he's done with coupes I guess I'd say well lets just build the most bad ass outlaw speedster on the face of the earth.
"Well, lets just build the most bad-ass outlaw speedster on the face of the earth."
Wow..... Looks like Merklin is gonna have some "Bad-Ass" competition!
Me and MUSBJIM will just sit in our Outlaw Speedsters and watch.
Hello All....
Its true we are only going to build Air-cooled and electric Speedsters no more water cooled Speedsters and no more air-cooled or water-cooled Spyders at this time. If you have your order with us now you will get one.... once those are done we will be 100% focused on our Speedster and Coupe's using air-cooled and electric engines only.
I have been watching my business closely these last few years and its just doesn't make sense to do it any other way for me. I have been trying to stream line the build process on the Speedsters with making 2332cc engines ,3.44 ring & pinion transmissions and 4 wheel 5 lug disc brakes standard on all builds so we can shorten our build times. When we are building a water-cooled Speedster or a Spyder it just slows production down on what is successful for us and want to stay focused on that.
So there you have it! I know it may sound crazy but business wise this is the best decision for us at this time. I hope in the future as our team here at VMC grows we will be able to bring back the Spyder and maybe the water-cooled stuff in the future.
Greg
Hi Greg. When is the electric speedsters coming out and what type of power will they output?
Greg and I spoke at length last week. He's keeping his Spyder molds and jigs, so don't worry. He's been building Spyders continuously since 1995 or so. Give the man a break, he deserves one. Bruce and Rick will get their cars. Beyond that, who knows?
Thanks DannyP
The rear suspension is done on Bruce's Spyder. Next week we see what direction for the front suspension.
Electric is interesting, but not for me. It would be a different product, not really a Speedster replica. Not a bad thing at all -- just different. I'm air cooled all the way. Having come from two 356s back in the day, one of my first questions upon discovering replica Speedsters on VW running gear, was: will it sound the same as my old 1600 P-cars, one of which was a S90?? I'll say that the VW version of the flat air cooled 4 is pretty damn close. I think I can detect a small but distinct difference to the fan whine between the VW and Porsche lash-ups, but its plenty close enough. when You take that away totally with an electric, you have made a BIG change, IMHO. Again, not necessarily bad, just very different. Might not satisfy some of us old school luddites. And a properly built and tuned 2332 + A1 Sidewinder ?? what could be finer?
Air cooled all the way - I even decided, with much thought and discussion, to get the Pat Downs aircooled in my car vs the Subie I originally ordered cause they delays from outside folks was still difficult for Greg to predict.
The delivery date for my car is now measured (hopefully) in weeks countable on 1 hand
@msjulie that is great news on your speedster just in time for spring cruising! BTW how is the bus progressing??
@Joe Fortino posted:@msjulie that is great news on your speedster just in time for spring cruising! BTW how is the bus progressing??
The bus is hopefully, finally, ready to leave the ev-conversion shop soon; there were delays getting all the IRS bits for the rear axle (supply chain fun)
Coincidentally I sent a note to the folks there yesterday prodding for some updates.. never fast enough 
Those wheels make me feel funny down there.
Ditto. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m a sucker for wheels. Roy at C9C pointed them out to me, and I was hooked.
Who makes those wheels, how much, and where? Are they 5 x 130 or what bolt pattern?
@DannyP posted:Who makes those wheels, how much, and where? Are they 5 x 130 or what bolt pattern?
HRBB (Hot Rods By Boyd). They're Coddington wheels (Model A with the knock-off kit, unless I'm mistaken) - full custom offsets and drillings. Pricing is not for the faint of heart.
Joe Fortino has a set, and there have been a few VMC cars that have had them of late.
Thanks, Stan. I'm not in the market, but if building a new car I certainly would be!
I believe Greg gets the wheels from HRBB. Yes they are 5 x 130 and very light weight. Pictures really don't do them justice.
@DannyP they’re about $5000. I was amazed at my willingness order them.
@JoeFortino you gotta share more pics of your car. Looks amazing. I’m guessing you have Oatmeal carpet?
That car is even more amazing in person. Absolutely beautiful!
I've always liked your car, Joe.
Even after that woman backed into it at dinner...
Yeah, that was a sucky Carlisle moment, wasn't it?
@Lane Andersonand @Bob: IM S6 thanks fellas it still brings a smile to my face and I am eternally grateful to everyone on this site that helped me out over the years. Yes @Gordon Nicholsthat was a sucky moment but she was kind enough to leave a note with her contact information and Carey and the team put it back together.
@JoelP thanks you. Here are a few pics from throughout the years. I took delivery 6/2016 from Beck/Special Edition. I had a clear vision of what I wanted after driving and air-cooled Beck for 4 years.
That’s an amazing car Joe. I’m super excited for mine. I wish I could’ve ordered was an oil pressure gauge in the dash. Notwithstanding, I’ll be making subtle upgrades here and there, but I feel lucky to be getting one from such a great builder. I’ve wanted a speedster since I first saw one in college.
This one is the money shot
That’s impressive.
@chines1 and the boys make damn good cars.
@Joe Fortino posted:@chines1 and the boys make damn good cars.
Yours was/is the high-water mark for the old-style frame/suspension. You've got an 1800 lb Subaru powered Speedster.
I've ridden in the car from Chicagoland to Carlisle and back - it's no lightweight rattle-trap. It's just a well screwed together car with exceptional paint and a really, really nice interior. Everything somebody would want, nothing they don't need.
It's exceptional, Joe - but you already know that.
