VS 1915cc

Looks like clean engine compartment.  The carbs and dizzy are easy as they are cast/stamped with info on the sides - might take a mirror to view or hunk of clay to get impression.  A 1915 cc engine is budget high displacement engine since it relies often solely on the 94 mm big bore P&C (with machining of case and heads, of course).  The stock 69 mm crank is used - a counter weighted one would be great option but adds $400 to build cost.  The stock heads can be used with even stock valves and springs - bigger valves and maybe dual springs would be nice upgrade.  Cam probably is best place for an upgrade when building - an Engle 110 or equivalent will make it really put out more HP.  No way to tell on these internals without a supplied build sheet or tear down. SO assume all those are stock OEM bits.  That limits RPM to stock.  So should cruise all day at 70 mph even in Summer.

Your servicing sounds right on.  Oil viscosity is much debated - either in Michigan is probably fine (AZ, FL, TX I'd go with higher in Summer use).  Valve adjustments every other oil change is recommended (some say every 3k oil change).  If valves are out of wack big time on oil change look for cause - stretching valve stem, loose/pulled head studs, loose rocker arms.  When you do oil change you can confirm the single valve springs and if solid rocker arms and ratio rockers (a possible madness upgrade).  Use a quality valve cover gasket.  Avoid temptation to replace stock valve covers with flashy Taiwan chrome ones - they will leak. 

If you can't get a build sheet from VS - maybe another VS owner will share his.  I suspect that unless you were charged for upgrades all parts are stock inside.  Not sure the MEXI-Crate name still applies to the stock 1915 - it is often used disparagingly - meaning cheap components, thrown together in MX. 

A lot of debate regarding electronic vs points.

@Bill Prout - there is?...  I switched to electronic points on my 2054 and my Model A without a single care/worry.  Did i inadvertently give something up?

Used the Pertronix Flame Thrower. Totally screw the pooch trying to static time the thing before reading you don't do that. Anyway, seems fine. 

I have the Pertronix electric module now. But when my motor was built with them my car arrived without them...Shipper could not get it started one day and swapped to traditional points. I got another set in the mail from the builder and have had no problems yet.  

Slowshoes:  BIG debate on here about electronic ignition modules.  Most everyone thinks they are the way to go, but we're divided on whether Pertronics is the right way to go.  Pertronics has a history of crapping out, usually at the worst possible moment (being stressed on a hot day), but some people seem to get along with them just fine.  My Hot Rod buddies won't use Pertronics, and have most often gone to MSD or Mallory units with no further problems.

An alternative is CB Performance's Magna Spark II, which I have heard no complaints on.  (Full Disclosure:  I have an original, 20-year-old Magna Spark and it continues to operate fine for me).  

Now, to your other questions, answers in red:

VS 1915cc engine with an external oil filter and oil cooler, and that's about all I know.

 I'd like to know what carbs and distributor I have, among other things.

The carbs should have something stamped into them or a metal tag on one base nut.  That should tell you what they are.  If that fails, give us a photo.  The distributor is harder - Just take a picture and post it.  Most are reproductions of Bosch 009 centrifugal-advance distributors.  Some of those reproductions actually work properly, most are just OK.

I'm assuming these engines come with points, and I would like to switch out to an electronic ignition.  

Points are not as bad as all that - Millions of VW Beetles used to be zipping about with points and everyone got to the supermarket just fine.   They should be fine for you through the rest of this season, so no rush on going electronic.  Besides - It'll give us all an opportunity to pontificate about which is the best module to run (again).

 What would the redline be for this engine?   Dunno - that depends on the specs of the valvetrain, the camshaft and what carbs and exhaust you have.  It's always safe to assume a 5,500 rpm redline on a 1915 engine.

How fast should I be able to comfortably cruise at on the highway? (3.88 trans).   70 - 80+mph.  Beware that it'll make a lot of noise at that speed.  Far more important is keeping it below 4,500 RPM for extended periods of time, unless you KNOW your engine.   3,500 - 4K for a couple of steady interstate hours shouldn't kill it.

Does that change with the weather - can I drive 70 mph for hours on a 90 degree day as well as a 70 degree day?  Yes, if your oil cooler does its' job and keeps the oil temp under 210ºF and, no, your bar-graph oil temp gauge doesn't tell you anything yet.  Go to Bed Bath and Beyond and get a candy/meat thermometer with a probe roughly as long as the bottom of your dipstick, calibrate it at 212º in a cup of boiling water, the stick it down the dipstick tube under various day temps and driving conditions and see what your engine temp really is.

 I changed the break in oil at 450 miles and it took 3 quarts. (???)  Do you not have a deep sump? (I suspect not, given the 3 quart fill).  Exactly WHAT is that oil cooler and where is it mounted?  It might take 3 quarts with no added sump capacity, and take 4+ quarts to fill it with a deeper (1 quart additional).  Can't answer without more info.

I used Lucas hot rod and classic oil 10w-40 with a Wix 51515 filter. I was thinking the 10w-40 would take me through the cool weather we get in Michigan during the fall, and maybe switch to 20w-50 in the summer.   Not familiar with Lucas' oil additives and it's probably OK, but the WIX filter is spot on.  You can also use a NAPA Gold 1515 (same filter, made by WIX).  Please do not use anything that says FRAM on it.  FRAM is the Pertronics of oil filters.

Big debate on here about the right viscosity oil to use, but I would stick to the 10W-40 Hi-Zync/Hi Phospherous in your area - all the engine slippery parts will like it.  After all, your engine is not much more than stock and VW recommended 10W-40 to make the engine temperature control work right (It's a long, technical story......Just use 10W-40 for now til you learn more about it).  If you plan on starting and/or running it during the typical Michigan winters of 60º below zero, then go to 10W-30 in the winter.  It will cold-crank easier and warm up quicker.

Good luck with the new toy!

gn

Looks like Kadron carbs, can tell if they are 40s or 44s, guessing 40s.

On the distributor, I replaced the 009 (nonoriginal) with a Pertronix Flamethrower SVDA and also went with a Pertronix Flamethrower Coil (going from stock 20,000 volts to 40,000 volts).  I can tell you that I have never had any spark plug or ignition problems after making this move and my car start with a bump of the ignition switch. 

Going to an SVDA distributor though will require that your drill out the vacuum port of one of your distributors (Kadrons have them they just are not sold drilled out).  There is info on how to do this on this site and on Samba.  I will admit that the Pertronix distributor has some issues (trimming down rubber grommet to ensure full vacuum advance plate movement) that need attention to ensure best operation (kinda like Vintage Speedsters when they leave Kirk's shop), but with a little attention mine has worked without fault either on the advance side or on the electronics module side since 2012.

Hope you find this information helpful.

Grant

Here's yet another very much expert internet oil test thing.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/vie....php?f=1&t=33547

So we can rekindle the "which oil/how much zddp" debate. (this guy says too much zddp can actually fall the cam)

ok...GO!

Oil debate reminded me that I should have warned you about storing car for more than 30 days in Michigan winters with Ethanol additive gas.  Try to fill with non-ethanol hi-test or use a costly stabilizing additive for ethanol gas.  

 Wow - a lot of great information. I went and looked at the carbs and found Brosol  Bras stamped in one area and Solex H40/44EIS stamped in another area. I looked all over the distributor and there aren't any markings on it anywhere.

  One reason I'm thinking of electronic ignition is, setting the points is a job I don't think I would be able to do myself. Besides never having done it in my life, I also have a tremor in my dominant hand, and after looking at a video of how to set the points, I don't think I'd be able to do it. I'd hate to be a the mercy of a mechanic for a job that sounds like it needs to be done fairly frequently.

 I was surprised that the car only took 3 qts of oil, seeing as I have an external oil filter and an oil cooler. I attached a (not very good) picture of my oil cooler and a pic of part of my camber compensator that also shows my sump. It doesn't look like a deep sump to me. In one of my calls to Kirk, I had asked about oil capacity, and he said it was 4 qts. Is there something different I'm supposed to do when changing oil when the car has an oil cooler? I just took the plug out of the sump, let it drain, and changed out the oil filter - was I supposed to do something with the oil cooler too?  

 Interesting article on oil Ed - it looks like the oil I used is only providing modest protection, so I'll probably change brands for the next oil change. I've always used full synthetic in my modern cars, and I really hate not to use synthetic in our Speedster - especially since I've read article after article saying how superior synthetic is compared to conventional oils. And in he real world, we keep our cars for at least 150,000 miles, and we've never had an engine issue. I've just read here how synthetics can turn these engines into leaky sieves, and I definitely don't want that.

 I've specifically asked Kirk about the valves and camshaft, as well as requesting any other info or manual for these engines, but unfortunately, never got a response. That's why I'm posting here. If anyone should have a manual for the 1915, I'd be glad to buy a copy off of you.

 Thanks again for all the information fellas - much appreciated.

    Bill

  I know you guys don't like yellow, but we love it:

  My crazy brother stuck his phone out the window (while driving my truck!) and got this photo of me driving home from Munk's after our new trans install. He could have killed himself, and ruined my truck!

Nothing wrong yellow - that's kind of a banana yellow.  If you just drained and filled without starting engine (and didn't fill filter with oil before spinning it on) then you are probably short near 1 qt.  The filter, oil lines, and oil cooler probably take near a quart.  I'd add at least another 1/2 quart.  Check to see if you have a thermostatic by pass in the oil lines.  It allows engine to heat up faster and bypass the cooler in cold weather. If you have it, then the oil has to heat up before the lines and oil cooler fill up.

The shop that builds most of the drive trains for Vintage can be a great help they were to me.  You can find them at:  www.gemvw.com.  I have a 2010cc motor in mine with the 110 camshaft and electronic ignition - I also have bigger 40 double barrel carbs - originally VS built it with 1 single carb but it ran like a 3-legged goat and wouldn't idle.  Yours seems to have twin carbs on it

 Wolfgang,

 I did fill the filter before spinning it on and took it for a drive as well. When I check the dipstick it's over halfway between the fill and max lines - hate to overfill it. Think I should still add another 1/2 qt?

 I'm not sure if I have that bypass valve or not - I'll crawl under the car tomorrow and check.

 Verbieten - many thanks for that link. I'll definitely be checking it out.

slowshoes posted:

 Wolfgang,

 I did fill the filter before spinning it on and took it for a drive as well. When I check the dipstick it's over halfway between the fill and max lines - hate to overfill it. Think I should still add another 1/2 qt?

 I'm not sure if I have that bypass valve or not - I'll crawl under the car tomorrow and check.

 Verbieten - many thanks for that link. I'll definitely be checking it out.

@slowshoes

Bill,

I ike the yellow, very subtle and it's a classic color that not every car can pull off. The 356 is one that can.

When you changed the oil you only drained the oil the was in the sump. The oil that was in the filter, the lines, and the cooler would have remained in the filter, the lines, and the cooler because there is nothing going on to push it through the system.

The only way to get that oil out of the system when changing the oil would be to pull the coil wire (so the engine doesn't start) and crank the engine a few times to push all of that oil back to the sump. Personally I don't think it's necessary but you can do it if you want. Based on what you did you should have only drained/added about 3 quarts so in my opinion, and that's all it is, so you're good.

As far as your distributer it is probably a Bosch 009 or some other Chinese equivalent. I'm not knocking Kirk but the engines are built with cost in mind, not performance. Your engine looks just like mine used to before I made upgrades/changes. You most likely have Solex/Kadrons with a single throat. Bosch 009 distributer with a Petronix oil filled coil, stock cam, and nothing that would be considered high performance. Your engine likely produces about 90 hp. Your oil cooler is most likely a EMPI/Mesa brand 96 plate oil cooler. I find it interesting EMPI/Mesa lists the number of cooling fins and not how many times the oil passes across the plates.

As far as upgrades if you found a good set of used Dellorto Carburetors or purchased a new set of Weber carburetors with either brand having dual throats you'd see a a potential increase of about 15 hp.

I'd swap out the Bosch 009 for a CB Performance Magnaspark distributor with a dry pack coil. I'd also get the CB Performance Camber Compensator that I linked to at the top of the page. The CC is strapped to the axle and there is no way for it to slip around the axles. The EMPI one that is on your car should be fitting so something must be out of kilter. It'd be better if someone could get a look at the CC with the wheels under load. Maybe put it on a lift that the wheels rest on instead of lifting the car and letting the wheels hang down.

Nice looking car!!!   Like the yellow.

Slowshoes !......When you ask a question on this forum do you feel like it's like trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant ?  See!  the madness has begun....Bruce

aircooled posted:

Slowshoes !......When you ask a question on this forum do you feel like it's like trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant ?  See!  the madness has begun....Bruce

Feels like this:

Robert M posted:

slowshoes posted:

 Wolfgang,

 I did fill the filter before spinning it on and took it for a drive as well. When I check the dipstick it's over halfway between the fill and max lines - hate to overfill it. Think I should still add another 1/2 qt?

 I'm not sure if I have that bypass valve or not - I'll crawl under the car tomorrow and check.

 Verbieten - many thanks for that link. I'll definitely be checking it out.

@slowshoes

Bill,

I ike the yellow, very subtle and it's a classic color that not every car can pull off. The 356 is one that can.

When you changed the oil you only drained the oil the was in the sump. The oil that was in the filter, the lines, and the cooler would have remained in the filter, the lines, and the cooler because there is nothing going on to push it through the system.

The only way to get that oil out of the system when changing the oil would be to pull the coil wire (so the engine doesn't start) and crank the engine a few times to push all of that oil back to the sump. Personally I don't think it's necessary but you can do it if you want. Based on what you did you should have only drained/added about 3 quarts so in my opinion, and that's all it is, so you're good.

As far as your distributer it is probably a Bosch 009 or some other Chinese equivalent. I'm not knocking Kirk but the engines are built with cost in mind, not performance. Your engine looks just like mine used to before I made upgrades/changes. You most likely have Solex/Kadrons with a single throat. Bosch 009 distributer with a Petronix oil filled coil, stock cam, and nothing that would be considered high performance. Your engine likely produces about 90 hp. Your oil cooler is most likely a EMPI/Mesa brand 96 plate oil cooler. I find it interesting EMPI/Mesa lists the number of cooling fins and not how many times the oil passes across the plates.

As far as upgrades if you found a good set of used Dellorto Carburetors or purchased a new set of Weber carburetors with either brand having dual throats you'd see a a potential increase of about 15 hp.

I'd swap out the Bosch 009 for a CB Performance Magnaspark distributor with a dry pack coil. I'd also get the CB Performance Camber Compensator that I linked to at the top of the page. The CC is strapped to the axle and there is no way for it to slip around the axles. The EMPI one that is on your car should be fitting so something must be out of kilter. It'd be better if someone could get a look at the CC with the wheels under load. Maybe put it on a lift that the wheels rest on instead of lifting the car and letting the wheels hang down.

 Thanks so much for all the information Robert (and everyone else). I'm slowly getting more and more figured out. I think I'm going to take the Empi compensator off and replace it with the CB Performance one. It makes me wonder what could be out of kilter, especially since the car seems to be running fine.

 Since these are under tension, how tricky is it to remove? Any worries about it springing out at you when the bolts are removed?

aircooled posted:

Slowshoes !......When you ask a question on this forum do you feel like it's like trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant ?  See!  the madness has begun....Bruce

 Yes it does - and it's great!

slowshoes posted:

Robert M posted:

slowshoes posted:

 Wolfgang,

 I did fill the filter before spinning it on and took it for a drive as well. When I check the dipstick it's over halfway between the fill and max lines - hate to overfill it. Think I should still add another 1/2 qt?

 I'm not sure if I have that bypass valve or not - I'll crawl under the car tomorrow and check.

 Verbieten - many thanks for that link. I'll definitely be checking it out.

@slowshoes

Bill,

I ike the yellow, very subtle and it's a classic color that not every car can pull off. The 356 is one that can.

When you changed the oil you only drained the oil the was in the sump. The oil that was in the filter, the lines, and the cooler would have remained in the filter, the lines, and the cooler because there is nothing going on to push it through the system.

The only way to get that oil out of the system when changing the oil would be to pull the coil wire (so the engine doesn't start) and crank the engine a few times to push all of that oil back to the sump. Personally I don't think it's necessary but you can do it if you want. Based on what you did you should have only drained/added about 3 quarts so in my opinion, and that's all it is, so you're good.

As far as your distributer it is probably a Bosch 009 or some other Chinese equivalent. I'm not knocking Kirk but the engines are built with cost in mind, not performance. Your engine looks just like mine used to before I made upgrades/changes. You most likely have Solex/Kadrons with a single throat. Bosch 009 distributer with a Petronix oil filled coil, stock cam, and nothing that would be considered high performance. Your engine likely produces about 90 hp. Your oil cooler is most likely a EMPI/Mesa brand 96 plate oil cooler. I find it interesting EMPI/Mesa lists the number of cooling fins and not how many times the oil passes across the plates.

As far as upgrades if you found a good set of used Dellorto Carburetors or purchased a new set of Weber carburetors with either brand having dual throats you'd see a a potential increase of about 15 hp.

I'd swap out the Bosch 009 for a CB Performance Magnaspark distributor with a dry pack coil. I'd also get the CB Performance Camber Compensator that I linked to at the top of the page. The CC is strapped to the axle and there is no way for it to slip around the axles. The EMPI one that is on your car should be fitting so something must be out of kilter. It'd be better if someone could get a look at the CC with the wheels under load. Maybe put it on a lift that the wheels rest on instead of lifting the car and letting the wheels hang down.

 Thanks so much for all the information Robert (and everyone else). I'm slowly getting more and more figured out. I think I'm going to take the Empi compensator off and replace it with the CB Performance one. It makes me wonder what could be out of kilter, especially since the car seems to be running fine.

 Since these are under tension, how tricky is it to remove? Any worries about it springing out at you when the bolts are removed?

 

aircooled posted:

Slowshoes !......When you ask a question on this forum do you feel like it's like trying to get a drink of water from an open fire hydrant ?  See!  the madness has begun....Bruce

 Yes it does - and it's great!

It is best the remove the compensator when the wheels are under load, this takes the load off the CC. Ckock the front tires, jack the car up as high as you can and put some ramps under the rear tires, take out the jack. This will take the tension off the CC. Undo the bolts holding the CC in place, and remove the CC. Replace the bolts and get the car off the ramps/blocks.

Or take it off with the car on a lift that supports the car by the tires.

I see a Bosch Blue Coil $55 (so good upgrade over a $10 coil).  Brosol Made in Brasil is a new  Solex H40/44EI also referred to as EMPI Kadron ($530).  They are fine dual single barrel carbs.  Lot of useful tuning info at http://www.kaddieshack.com/tech-articles.html.

So it depends if oil will drain out of lines/cooler.  If oil drained cold and there is a thermostat then I doubt much would come out (as a closed thermostat would prevent drain back).  If no thermostat and cooler is lower that return line "IN" line to engine then no drain back - if higher than most likely drain back.  Since VS said 4 quarts and you only used 3 and oil is mid way between min and full,  I'd add another 1/2 qt to bring it to full.

That's a really pretty car. Beehives!

Verbieten posted:

The shop that builds most of the drive trains for Vintage can be a great help they were to me.  You can find them at:  www.gemvw.com.  I have a 2010cc motor in mine with the 110 camshaft and electronic ignition - I also have bigger 40 double barrel carbs - originally VS built it with 1 single carb but it ran like a 3-legged goat and wouldn't idle.  Yours seems to have twin carbs on it

VS strikes again and again!

i  have the same combo bill, you can cruise all day at 75 or 80 with that rear gear, its great. i can convert it to petronix for you thats what i have in mine, iv3e done hndreds so far, including american v8s.  i can show you some tricks on the carbs for more power and its free power. you should have a red line of not more than 4700 rpm, that motor is built for torque , not horsepower. torque is what makes the world go round. bill

buckwheat posted:

i  have the same combo bill, you can cruise all day at 75 or 80 with that rear gear, its great. i can convert it to petronix for you thats what i have in mine, iv3e done hndreds so far, including american v8s.  i can show you some tricks on the carbs for more power and its free power. you should have a red line of not more than 4700 rpm, that motor is built for torque , not horsepower. torque is what makes the world go round. bill

 

 

 PM sent Bill.

buckwheat posted:

i  have the same combo bill, you can cruise all day at 75 or 80 with that rear gear, its great. i can convert it to petronix for you thats what i have in mine, iv3e done hndreds so far, including american v8s.  i can show you some tricks on the carbs for more power and its free power. you should have a red line of not more than 4700 rpm, that motor is built for torque , not horsepower. torque is what makes the world go round. bill

 

 

When I was drafting my earlier response I meant to address the speed issue also. Yes, you can cruise all day at 80 mph with your rear drive ratio. I run that speed all the time and the car drives great, doesn't run hot, and gets better than average mpg, about 28-30 mpg.

Bill- lots of good information- you have kadrons, as everyone has told you, and unless someone can tell you what's in the engine it'll be a bit of a mystery, but try this- in 3rd gear on flat ground or a slight incline floor it and note at what rpm it stops making power. It will rev past that point in 3rd (and especially in 1st and 2nd) and go another 500 or so rpm, but where you feel the power fall off so it's not accelerating as hard any more is the engine's redline.  If it's the stock camshaft with stock 1.1:1 rockers I suspect it will happen at about 4500. 1.4 rockers with the stock cam will add 4-500rpm, and with an aftermarket cam and either stock or ratio rockers it will be 5,000 or anything above that. I suspect with this (typical VS engine) redline will be somewhere in the 4500-5500 rpm range. Once redline is established- never take it above that point!

One thing you won't know unless someone can tell you specifically what's in it is whether it has a stock or counterweighted crankshaft. With the Kadron carbs and knowing what we all do about about VS engines I'm guessing it's a stock crank, which is perfectly ok, but just remember that constantly running above 4500rpm will beat up the case in a stock 1600, and with heavier pistons (and yes, the 94's are bigger and heavier than the stock 85.5's) you can count on that happening that little bit sooner, so get into the practice of shifting at 3500 or so some of the time (just like a stock VW), taking it to 4,000 or even a little higher sometimes, and if you want the engine to last more than a few thousand miles only going to redline once in a while. Another way to look at it- if you're constantly driving the bag off of it from the moment you start it to when you shut if off, you can guess it's not going to last forever, and when it doesn't you're buying a new engine.

Bottom line- let the thing warm up before taking off, show it a little respect and don't drive the snot out of it constantly, pay attention to oil temps on the highway in hot weather, change the oil and adjust the valves regularly and it will be a fun engine that lasts a long time.

And if/when you should get bored of this little watchwinder and are ready to step up to a little (or a lot) more power- we'll talk... Al

ALB posted:

Bill- lots of good information- you have kadrons, as everyone has told you, and unless someone can tell you what's in the engine it'll be a bit of a mystery, but try this- in 3rd gear on flat ground or a slight incline floor it and note at what rpm it stops making power. It will rev past that point in 3rd (and especially in 1st and 2nd) and go another 500 or so rpm, but where you feel the power fall off so it's not accelerating as hard any more is the engine's redline.  If it's the stock camshaft with stock 1.1:1 rockers I suspect it will happen at about 4500. 1.4 rockers with the stock cam will add 4-500rpm, and with an aftermarket cam and either stock or ratio rockers it will be 5,000 or anything above that. I suspect with this (typical VS engine) redline will be somewhere in the 4500-5500 rpm range. Once redline is established- never take it above that point!

One thing you won't know unless someone can tell you specifically what's in it is whether it has a stock or counterweighted crankshaft. With the Kadron carbs and knowing what we all do about about VS engines I'm guessing it's a stock crank, which is perfectly ok, but just remember that constantly running above 4500rpm will beat up the case in a stock 1600, and with heavier pistons (and yes, the 94's are bigger and heavier than the stock 85.5's) you can count on that happening that little bit sooner, so get into the practice of shifting at 3500 or so some of the time (just like a stock VW), taking it to 4,000 or even a little higher sometimes, and if you want the engine to last more than a few thousand miles only going to redline once in a while. Another way to look at it- if you're constantly driving the bag off of it from the moment you start it to when you shut if off, you can guess it's not going to last forever, and when it doesn't you're buying a new engine.

Bottom line- let the thing warm up before taking off, show it a little respect and don't drive the snot out of it constantly, pay attention to oil temps on the highway in hot weather, change the oil and adjust the valves regularly and it will be a fun engine that lasts a long time.

And if/when you should get bored of this little watchwinder and are ready to step up to a little (or a lot) more power- we'll talk... Al

 

 Wow - great info Al - thank you. I will try again with Kirk and try to get specifics on my engine, and hopefully take some of the mystery out of what I'm driving. I imagine everything is pretty much stock for a VS 1915, as I didn't specify anything different.

 I don't really drive too hard and I'm always interested in making my engines last a long time, no matter what I'm driving. After reading in Muir's book about the importance of warming up the engine, I make sure I do that as well. (something I don't typically do in our modern cars).

 Thanks so much to everyone for helping me learn about my car - you're helping to shorten my learning curve, and I greatly appreciate it. 

 Bill