LOOKING FOR A VW BUG CHASSIS INORDER TO REPAIR MINE. I REALLY ONLY NEED THE BULK HEAD.
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LOOKING FOR A VW BUG CHASSIS INORDER TO REPAIR MINE. I REALLY ONLY NEED THE BULK HEAD.
Terminology is very important here, in finding the right part.
"Bulkhead" (that piece right in front of your feet at the front of the passenger compartment) is available from CIP1
The "headset" (that part at the front of the chassis which the front suspension/torsion tubes bolt to) is available on ebay (get a Brazilian one, not one from China or Taiwan)
Either one is tricky to install if you haven't done one before - you have to take great pains to make sure that everything is as straight as it was before you replaced anything, and THEN start welding it in place.
Also, you have to be very careful how you weld them in: On the headset, start with spot welds, 1/2" long, every three inches all the way around, completing welds on alternate, opposite sides all the way around, then do the next 1/2", alternating again, and continue until it's all welded in. The reason for this is to prevent the weld heat from pulling the headset one way or the other and getting it out of alignment (otherwise, the front end won't be straight when you put the front suspension on).
On the bulkhead, where true alignment isn't quite so critical, get it all aligned and straight, and then do the same alternate welding technique left vs. right across the top, for a couple of iterations, then flip the pan and do a couple of iterations across the bottom, again, left vs. right. Then flip it again and complete the top, flip it again and complete the bottom.
Sounds like a lot, but all you're doing is letting the metal rest and cool between welds so the completed job isn't distorted from the weld heat.
If you take it to a really good welder familiar with sheet metal welding, he/she should know this stuff already and be able to get it in and get it straight the first time.
gn
"Bulkhead" (that piece right in front of your feet at the front of the passenger compartment) is available from CIP1
The "headset" (that part at the front of the chassis which the front suspension/torsion tubes bolt to) is available on ebay (get a Brazilian one, not one from China or Taiwan)
Either one is tricky to install if you haven't done one before - you have to take great pains to make sure that everything is as straight as it was before you replaced anything, and THEN start welding it in place.
Also, you have to be very careful how you weld them in: On the headset, start with spot welds, 1/2" long, every three inches all the way around, completing welds on alternate, opposite sides all the way around, then do the next 1/2", alternating again, and continue until it's all welded in. The reason for this is to prevent the weld heat from pulling the headset one way or the other and getting it out of alignment (otherwise, the front end won't be straight when you put the front suspension on).
On the bulkhead, where true alignment isn't quite so critical, get it all aligned and straight, and then do the same alternate welding technique left vs. right across the top, for a couple of iterations, then flip the pan and do a couple of iterations across the bottom, again, left vs. right. Then flip it again and complete the top, flip it again and complete the bottom.
Sounds like a lot, but all you're doing is letting the metal rest and cool between welds so the completed job isn't distorted from the weld heat.
If you take it to a really good welder familiar with sheet metal welding, he/she should know this stuff already and be able to get it in and get it straight the first time.
gn
I call it a frame head....( beam bolts to this and usually has the is the rust field) The last one I replaced one, I had access to a Dataliner (body shop laser alignment table) and a good welder.
I was surprised how much the welder heat would throw the alignment off as I had to go side to side a little at a time letting it cool between weld beads.
I'm not saying you can't get it dead on straight by measuring twice and cutting once, you would need a number of referrence points to measure off of though...well you know the drill :) ~Alan
I was surprised how much the welder heat would throw the alignment off as I had to go side to side a little at a time letting it cool between weld beads.
I'm not saying you can't get it dead on straight by measuring twice and cutting once, you would need a number of referrence points to measure off of though...well you know the drill :) ~Alan
To align the headset, I bolt on the front torsion tubes (usually called the "Front Beam) without the suspension on them and then make up some 1/4" thick metal straps with holes in them so I can bolt them to the pan at the corner of the cockpit and then to the body bolt positions (or any handy bolt position) on the beam. Think triangulation, here, so you get it all straight with the original suspension and it can't be moved once bolted together. I have at least four straps on there.
Having done that, remove the straps and front beam, then remove the old headset and prep the pan for the new headset (straighten anything that needs to be straightened so everything fits together nicely). Then assemble the beam to the new headset, position the new headset to the pan, re-assemble your straps (muscling things here and there to get them to go together) and tightening everything up. What you've now done is re-create what you would have with a Dataliner Chassis rack, without the laser alignment gizmos or cost to rent the rack for a day.
Now that everything is in position and held there securely, go ahead and start welding as noted above.
P.S: I've heard of people doing this without the beam mounted and attaching the straps right to the headset, but I haven't done it that way, thinking that using the beam bolt points moved everything farther out from the center line and made it more accurate. Nothing to support this assumption, but it sounded good... I have another pan to do this Spring/Summer and Chris and I will look at it closely to see if it can be done easier without the beam on there (common sense tells me it should be easier, but what do I know???) but, heck....the beam only weighs 15 pounds or so empty, so it's not that big a deal.
Of course, if you can find someone with a chassis alignment rack AND they know how to weld, then, by all means....let them do it!!
gn
Having done that, remove the straps and front beam, then remove the old headset and prep the pan for the new headset (straighten anything that needs to be straightened so everything fits together nicely). Then assemble the beam to the new headset, position the new headset to the pan, re-assemble your straps (muscling things here and there to get them to go together) and tightening everything up. What you've now done is re-create what you would have with a Dataliner Chassis rack, without the laser alignment gizmos or cost to rent the rack for a day.
Now that everything is in position and held there securely, go ahead and start welding as noted above.
P.S: I've heard of people doing this without the beam mounted and attaching the straps right to the headset, but I haven't done it that way, thinking that using the beam bolt points moved everything farther out from the center line and made it more accurate. Nothing to support this assumption, but it sounded good... I have another pan to do this Spring/Summer and Chris and I will look at it closely to see if it can be done easier without the beam on there (common sense tells me it should be easier, but what do I know???) but, heck....the beam only weighs 15 pounds or so empty, so it's not that big a deal.
Of course, if you can find someone with a chassis alignment rack AND they know how to weld, then, by all means....let them do it!!
gn
very nicely put GORDON!
Before replacing check to ensure your Speedie is not titled to the VIN on the pan (or when you shorten pan - use the original rear hunk). Although you might get by with a miss match for awhile - it will come out when you sell the vehicle or have an accident. Serious charges with legal felony-level consequences might ensue.
Wolfgang-I'm new to this forum and looking at all options re: a Speedster build. You raise an interesting question (at least to me!) Am I correct in assuming that the VIN on the chassis is the one used for registration purposes? Also, in frame modification (shortening) is there or should there be a "frame inspection" by someone (CHP or DMV) other than myself? And are there "matching" frame ID numbers other than the main chassis VIN no. that have to be in agreement? (I'm assuming that any chassis/frame with the "recognized" VIN hasn't previously been altered or titled as "salvage"; I know in California that presents problems if you re-sell a salvaged-titled car; once salvaged-always salvaged. However I believe a transfer can be an informed one if both parties agree-as is, where is. Don't think it would pass insurance muster though.) Just wanted some clarity on the "felony" or liability issues! Don't want to go there. Thanks for an informative post, Scott
Scott - Each state is, unfortunately, (or if you are in easy one - maybe fortunately) different. In most states it is easiest to register a kit car if you use a VW pan (with title), the kit manf's Certificate of Origin (looks like a title) and receipts for all the parts you bought. To my knowledge, no pan inspection is required (for OEM pan - might be for a tube construct) although most states have some sort of final or periodic safety inspection. It is felony to alter VIN or sell/drive a stolen vehicle. If your registration does not have match to VIN for that vehicle - it will most likely be impounded and you'll need to do some quick talking. Pan based usually is easier to get thru or bypass smog tests. Pan VIN is one that is used but on finished car it is often covered by fiberglass and carpet so the other VIN plates are often accepted (one rivited in front hood area and one on windshield left side). On a production car "Salvage" my carry a heavy stigma - not so much on a kit constructed of pieces - heck its more a recycled, green car!
www.dmv.org is a helpful site.
www.dmv.org is a helpful site.
Wolfgang-thanks. I think the thing about "glassing over" the VIN on the pan is a clue. I have checked Calif DMV info on types of registration and the SB100. I think I'll have to do some more homework. There's a car guy who is well-informed re: Calif. registration on this site. When it gets to crunch time I'll dig the guy up for advice "off-line". If I come up with something to share that's informative, I'll post my finding, although it'll most likely benefit Calif owners. A lot of guys have danced-this-dance before here, so any input like yours is extremely helpful-the rules and regs change so often, that by the time I'm "off the Pot" I'll be a whole new ball game! (By the way, the Calif Highway Patrol is extremely helpful-you approach them with questions about vehicles they'll go out of their way to help you. They're car guys too, believe-it-or-not!
Still looking...anyone?
Here you go. Found one on ebay listed as VW Frame head. Do a cut and paste to your browser bar.
Alan was right, and you see them in there almost all of the time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-GERMAN-VW-BEETLE-BUG-KARMAN-GHIA-FRONT-FRAME-HEAD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180329349371QQitemZ180329349371QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Alan was right, and you see them in there almost all of the time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-GERMAN-VW-BEETLE-BUG-KARMAN-GHIA-FRONT-FRAME-HEAD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180329349371QQitemZ180329349371QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
CIP1 has one as well... http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB-400-040