VW engines in speedsters--reliability?

After reading everything on this great site about the VW engines in Speedster replicas--it seems that your best bet for making it back home from a trip is to have either a super-reliable engine or be fairly smart about DIY repairs on the road.

My Car is Vintage Speedster with the 1915 engine and twin carbs---maybe 105 hp. A stock engine was 1600cc and what? 60hp?

My question: what was done to my engine case to get it to 1915 hp?

Was the case cut to fit larger cylinders? If so, wouldn't this shorten the studs and harm reliability?

Were larger cylinders just put on a stock case?

How much less reliable is a 1915 engine vs. a stock one?

Also I seem to remember that the 1776 (not sure of size) engines are less reliable that the 1915 because the case walls are made thinner.--Is this true?

As you can see--I am very interested in any wisdom I can get as I'm sorta at a crossroads with engines and need to make some decisions.

Any help will be appreciated!!---Thanks---Jack

Jack, You should have called.

A stock 1600cc engine is actually 1,584 cc. 85.5 mm pistons and a 69 mm stroke crank shaft. The formula for converting these measurements to displacement is B x B x S x Pi (B = Bore, S = stroke
Pi = 3.1416)

Your 1915 engine has a stock stroke crankshaft. In some instances, the builder will substitute the non-counterweighted crank with one that has counterweights. This can be done in several ways, Weld on counterweights, cast crank or forged crank. (no way of knowing unless you open up the engine case. The next procedure is to bore out the piston/cylinder holes located on the sides of the engine cases, install case savers (inserts to hold the 8 head studs (per side) securely in the engine case. The heads must also be bored out to accept the larger cylinders. Since the stroke is the same, no other real modifications need be performed. Next, a set of 94 mm pistons and cylinders are installed and instatly, you have a 1915 cc engine.

Edit
(Sorry for the redundancy as Wolfgang was typing his response that same time as I was)

Anytime you enlarge a VW engine you remove reliability from its original design. That only stands to reason as you're imposing stresses on the internal and external parts above the factory specifications. In reality, a 1915 will run a bit warmer than a stock 1600 cc engine but for the most part, they can be very reliable provided you maintain such things as oil temperature, oil level, tune ups, carb adjustments, valve adjustements and oil changes.

The case and the heads are cut to fit larger diameter cylinders jugs.
I ran the tar out of a a 1915 engine for 5 years, when sold it ran like day one.
1776 is a great motor what you are referring to is the 1835cc motor. They do have thinner wall areas but, with proper cooling add ons they are a decent motor....I just rebuilt one for my speedster.
Heads play a major role in power as well as the crank stroke of the engine, cam duration, good pistons and rings, exhaust, type of carbs, jetting, matching the intake ports to the manifolds, ignition, and a number of different tweaks.
If you are going to upgrade don't settle but go for what you really want.

Edit Sorry for the redundancy as we were all responding at the same time.

That's what I was loking for---many thanks to all!

Larry I have bothered you so much I didn't have the heart to call again! Thanks --you are a gem and I wish I were closer to your shop!!

--Heading to the VW mechanic this AM and need this info for him.

Again thanks---Jack

WOW 1915 HP is outstanding! - but typo when it should be 1915 cc. That would be a stock stroke of 69mm and pistons/jugs of 94 mm. The 94 mm are thick walled like the stock pistons but do produce extra heat due to fact that cooling fin area is the same. Hopefully a counter weighted crank was used vice the stock one. Yes your case and heads were cut to accommodate larger size. Stock 1600 cc were all of 50 HP. Since your car is new you should be able to get an "as built" sheet from VS that lists type/duration cam (Engle 110), mods done to parts (balanced, heat coated, type heads (044) and # valve springs/valve size).

Well, I'llBDed, might have learned something new here. Have always thought "bore" meant diameter, but apparently it is radius.

And this may be the right time to ask Stupid Question 347: What, exactly, is a "blue printed" engine? What goes on w/ a blue print build that does not go on otherwise?

Blue print = full balance of all components when possible.

I dunno, but bore is diameter in my book.

Yes, B is Diameter.

I do have a book that shows "B" for Diameter so I guess "in my book" B really is D !!!!

To add to blueprinting, it does include balancing of all moving parts and done correctly, it includes an accurate measurement and adjustment of cylinder head cc's, deck height, bearing clearance, both rod, cam and mains, final honing of cylinders, deburring sparp edges, champhering oil holes, measuring and adjusting ring gap and a bunch of other stuff.

Hey, Larry....while I have your attention here and can pull a minor hijack;

If diesel oil, that with heightened levels of phosphorus and Zinc, are good for aircooled engines (mostly because we're running solid lifters and 60 year old design tolerances) would they be just as good for modern engines, like the 5.4 Litre in my 2000 F150?

Inquiring minds want to know (mostly because I'm about due for an oil change before the "Great Southern Migration" to South Carolina ;>)

Thanks, gn

Usually the oil requirements for modern engines are vastly different than that of a diesel. I'm guessing that your engine calls for some pretty light oil such as 5-20 or 10-30. The very small oil passages in your engine need the light oil to circulate properly.

If I remember correctly, the 5.4 engine doesn't have flat tappets and that is where the problem exists with the lower zinc and phosphorous

Jack,
If you are running a VS supplied 1915 motor with twin Kadron

Thanks Lester--well I'm not looking for more power--in fact this 1915 has so much power (to me) that I feel it would work fine if I had an overdrive that kicked in at 60-65 mph.

I am jusr looking for reliability.

One suggestion I received that would definitely help my reliability was to stop working on my own engine!!! How insulting is that?

Sad thing is that Larry is pretty right on.---Jack

Folks,

I hope you will forgive an engineer, who has made a living "doing the math", but can't seem to be able to count cylinders: I retract earlier statements. Bore is diameter. The equation given above only works if there are four cylinders, and so is a special case. It should have been written as the number of cylinders (N) times the radius of one cylinder squared times pi times the stroke. The numbers and the Eq. given above for computation of displacement work out because when you square (the diameter divided by 2), i.e., the radius, you get (the diameter squared divided by 4). Multiply this by the four cylinders (4) and you get just the bore (B) squared. Multiply again by the stroke (S) and you get the swept volume of the four pistons. So displacement would be:

N * (B/2)^2 * pi * S = Displacement

Also, since the linear dimensions are given in mm and you want volume in cc, you must divide the answer by 1,000, the number of cubic mm in one cubic centimeter. One should always be mindful of the units -- just ask NASA about that . . .

To those explaining the mysteries of blue printed engines: thanks.

OMG! Kelly is speaking in tongues! Somebody get him a BEER, Quick!
(Must be cause I've always hated math).

~WB

My high school math teacher taught me that Pi r 2 (Pi R squared?).

Up to that point I always thought Pie are Round - Cornbread are Square!!

MUSB: Cornbread, and all those math nerds in HS were square. Cornbread is still square, and the nerds drive souped up Speedsters!

WHOOO-HOOO!

Jack...

I've driven a 1915cc engined '68 Bug over 80,000mi,sold it, then watched the next guy drive it 3 years....

Just keep the oil changed, valves adjusted, and plugs serviceable...

I ran a stock oil cooler the entire time I had the car....

Good luck....

Leon C.

Kelly, as stated,

Yes, that formula only works for a 4 cylinder engine

Another way to do multiple cylinder engines is:

N= #of cylinders, B = bore, S=stroke (.7854 is .25 of Pi)

If you want to figure out the dimensions of a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, or 16 cylinder engine the formula I use is:

N x B x B x S x .7854 = total can be CID or CC's depending if you use inches or millimiters.

Example, a V8 Ford 302 has a 4 inch bore and a 3 inch stroke

8 x 4 x 4 x 3 x .7854 = 301.59

A 4 cylinders engine can also be figured by this formula but the formula B x B X S X 3.1416 is easier to use

Example, 2.4 liter Porsche 6 cylinder engine has 84 mm bore and a 70.4 stroke
6 x 84 x 84 x 70.4 x .7854 = 2,340.8 cc's

Example Bugatti Veyron with 16 cylinder engine is totally square, in other words, the bore and stroke are the same at 86.1 mm's

16 x 86.1 x 86.1 x 86.1 x .7854 = 8,020 cc's

...did you know that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of the population?

That's (4-1)/4 = 0.75 ;-)

Yeah, but what about the other guy???

"Blue print = full balance of all components when possible. "

A blue printed engine is an engine built to the original blue print.

Often the phrase is "blue printed and balanced," they're separate procedures, yet part of the same process. A mass produced car has a mass produced engine. The tolerances are within spec, but not dead on. Deck height varies, end-play is off, and so on. If you blue print an engine, you build it to the exacting demands that were listed on the original blue print, which includes balanced components.

I'm thinking about ordering a JPS flared package that includes a 2110cc engine with webers. Has anyone had experience with this engine?

I just got up from the floor. Did I miss anything?

Dan - A lot of folks here have 2110's and love 'em, but it depends on who built it. CB Performance hhas a great reputation, and I've heard good things about Chico Performance. Don't know much about any other builders. 'Course you could do it yourself like Gordon Nichols. His pulls like a train - very good torque.

As my 2-yr-old Grandson would say:

"Chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga.....Whooo, Whoooooo!!"

Gordon

Dan, have you been reading the threads "its green" or "its red" or, are you crazy!!! Obviously, you will get the car quick, but only if you don't count the return time and the time it takes to make it right. Stick with a brand name big builder that these guys recommend, DON'T be talked into any other crappola...you will regret it for sure.

TC - re:blueprinting - When I was a young lad, recent out of college, I was working for a machine shop that made nuclear reactor components. Standard shop tolerance was + or - .020 inches. I knew that + or - .010 was well within machining capabilities. One day I asked a machinist if her could possibly machine a part to + or - .003 inches. He sneered down his nose at me and said, " Well what do you really want, + .003 or minus .003? I can't waste my time with someone who doesn't know what he wants!" I gained a lot of reespect for that machinist that day. He gave me the part dead on. Lesson learned.

ALL THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT ENGINES IS WAY OVER MY HEAD. IAM NEW OWNER OF VS 2000 BUILT AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT ENGINE I HAVE VS RECORDS DONT GO BACK THAT FAR IT HAS TWIN CARBURATORS BUT WHAT SIZE/ THANKS DAN

Dan,

It's hard to say based on your description ("IT HAS TWIN CARBURETORS"), but not impossible if you could post/provide some good pictures. Certain size engines are only capable of managing certain sized and types of carbs. Various extras like breathers, header diameter, distributor and such can also help hone in somewhat. Plus, different manufactures seem to favor certain configurations and sell cars (other than special order) with that engine repeatedly.

Welcome, post some pics.

TC

Lesterposted that my VS with the 1915cc engine is putting out 85hp but the VS optionslist seems to state that it's 85hp with the1915cc and that's before the twin Kadrons areadded---at least it readsthat way--so is it more hp when twin carbs are added to the 1915 cc engine
or just 85hp with both 1915cc plus twin carbs?

Yep, I'm confused.

I'm in Wales, UK this week---back to Hot Springs on the24th andI miss my Speedie!!!---Jack

I don't even know if those advertised 85 hp are attainable at all the way those engines are put together. They're just functional and very basic but I guess not much in the performance department even with the larger displacement. They're just basically stock motors with larger cylinders and pistons. I retrofitted mine by installing better carburetion along with big valve cylinder heads, less restrictive exhaust, ratio rockers, chromoly pushrods, swivel feet valve adjusters and rigid rocker shafts.

If we are going to talk HP - how was it measured? At rear wheels, or at the crank? Probably at the crank - lots bigger numbers for bragging rights. How was the engine dressed - with a fan? With a muffler? With an open header? With an alternator? With a "standard" dyno exhaust (whatever that happens to be)? What carbs, and their jets? Each combo gives a different number. You begin to get the picture? These are mostly hand built engines, the variations are enormous.

A rear wheel dyno pull can be a sobering experience - and it usually costs under $100.

If anyone knows---what is the usually accepted hp for a vs speedster with 1915 cc and twin Kadrons?

Thanks!---Jack

Jack:

As in life and cornflakes, "It Depends".

What size Kadrons?

Extractor exhaust or stock system?

1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2" or 1-3/4" header pipe diameter?

What is the cam specification?

Have the heads been ported and relieved?

See? It ain't so easy.......

OK.....putting all that aside, you'll probably hear a range of HP output (at the crank) of 85 - 125 HP or so, all depending on the above parameters, and somewhere in the middle of that would be realistic (like 100 - 110 hp) for your engine, without seeing what's in there.

Hope this helps! gn

Hey Gordon--yep--maybe 105-110 hp---OK I can agree with that--thanks and double thanks for the clarity.----Jack

Never under estimate the "Combo"...

Thats the entire engine from carb inlet to tail pipe exit including all systems and sub systems as well..
The big problem I see over and over gain is misconfiguration of engines and sub systems right down to tranny gearing, tire sizes fuel pumps and especially exhaust systems.

The difference between the men and the boys is quite often the "Combo". The "Combo" is how we can build a 3 liter, 250 HP engine that runs cooler than it did in stock form wmaking less than 100 HP.

The importance of a decent exhaust system was noted in one of the articles in the very first "Dune Buggies and Hot VW's magazine, back in May of 1967 (which I almost memorized as one of my four magazines brought with me on a trip to Central America as a kid).

Somewhere in there, someone wrote that, at least on a dune buggy, it was a mistake to delete a proper exhaust system on an Air Cooled VW engine, because the engine "would suck the exhaust valves right out". This was especially true if you were running in the boondocks and either lost or tore off your exhaust (I guess that was as common then as now!!). You could probably make it home, but you might be looking forward to a head rebuild at the end of the journey as the exhaust valve would overheat and deteriorate.

I think the article went on to explain what scavanging was and why it was important to better exhaust flow.

WOW! This has got my mind going back to La Esperanza, Honduras in '67!! Thanks, Jake!