vw frame shorting

hey all was wondering is there a standerd frame dimenesion to be removed for vintage 57 no wide body cars. also does anyone have a line on a vw so i can buy it thanks lou

We just did a rather extensive thread on this subject. The best advice I gained was that you should carefully locate a pair of your wheels in your new speedster body (both sides), measure the resulting wheelbase, and THEN determine exactly how much to remove from the VW chassis.

Just depends where on earth you are located - NOT MINE

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/1336139472.html

I would think you would want to shorten the chassis so that it matches the mounting points on the body.

This may or may not put the wheels exactly where you would like them.

Well I think that you would want to re-drill the mounting holes in the fiberglass and have the wheels where you want they, and where they look best . . . centered in the wells.

That whole front wheel thing looks lame. And no need for it on a hand built car. If I bought a kit or worse, a turn key car, and the front wheel was two inches to the rear of where it ought to be. I'd go insane on everyone involved. It just looks like shit, no question, no excuse.

El PricK-O

On the sub-frame in my CMC the front mounting holes in the "popes hat" ends (2 bolts each side) bolted to the embeded CMC subframe - in the back the steel chassis piece by the shock tower again bolted to the sub chassis. There would be NO WAY to reposition the wheels any differently in the opening without hacking the chassis or subframe apart.

https://www.speedsterowners.com/library/cmcmanual2/images/cmc51.jpg

Exactly what I was about to say.

That not the Pope's hat . . . that's Napoleon's hat ! !

It's the Pope's nose, isn't it? And the Cat's Ass. And the bee's knees.

Oh, and the President's Analyst . . .

And to have a correctly proportioned finished project, what's a little cutting, splicing and re-welding. I mean really . . . what God made, I can easily unmake with a Sawz-All ! !

Are you REALLY telling me that you aren't driven INSANE every time that you look at your car in profile and see that lame-assed front wheel dragging in the wheel well? You guys are all concerned with original looking wide five wheels and correct hub cap emblems and you don't notice that your front wheels are misplaced? and you consider a simple adjustment of the sub-frame and a few fiberglass alterations out of the question to correct the flaw ? ! ? ! ?

I'm surprised . . . honestly . . .

Actually, the Pope's hat is a rubber boot between the Air flow regulator plate and the throttle body on a CIS 911 engine

I think the Pope's nose is an early VW license plate light.

If I understand correctly the pan for the CMC is too short at the front, resulting in the front wheels being placed too far back in the wheelwells - correct?

If so how much does the CMC sub-frame need to be lengthened

It's not all CMCs - I'll take photo of mine which is just fine. I've never seen a FF/CMC body that didn't have the steel subframe - but perhaps there are some and builder cut the pan wrong or didn't center body properly? Mine seems well centered - but even if you look at real 356 the wheel looks to sit back a bit (may be optical since opening isn't symetric). That said a inch more would work ok with wheel opening.

Chris and I are positioning the body on our newly shortened pan (completely new frame head AND Napolean's hat plus pan shortening a la CMC) today.

Took us under a week to completely recondition the pan and then shorten it. We'll wheel it outside for a look from a distance, once the body is mounted, but I don't expect much trouble.

BTW: We found the replacement Brazilian frame head to be about 1.5-2 inches longer from the torsion tubes to the front pan holes used by the Speedster body. We welded it on anyway and just drilled new pan holes for the front body mount positions. The way we assembled everything, the seat for the torsion tubes is exactly where the original frame head was, and the resulting wheelbase and pan dimensions for the Speedster all came out right.

gn&C

Cool! Full speed ahead, Gordon/Chris!!!

OK....thanks to Chris' BBQ friends, we moved the CMC body onto our newly shortened frame, more-or-less following the CMC manual.

Result?

All six corner bolts just dropped right in. Those were the front two on each corner of the Napolean hat (remember? I had to drill new holes in the bottom plate because the frame head was too long beyond the Napolean hat) AND the two in the back as part of the shock tower. THOSE two are threaded holes which take a 10mm X 1.50 metric bolt (I happened to have a couple of original VW bolts kicking around from Pearl's build) and those two don't have a lot of slop in the hole positioning once the fronts are in. I may have to "adjust" those back hole locations when I get to Beaufort to make sure the body is centered left-to-right, but that'll be easy, for sure. The good news was - everything fit just like in the book. I'm only installing those 6 bolts for now, just to get it to Beaufort and will be installing the remaining 16 bolts after pan reconditioning.

So then we stepped back and took a look at the front wheel position vis-a-vis the front wheel well lip - both sides look pretty well centered to our eyes (and we've both been known to be pretty picky). If they're off, it's certainly no more than 3/8" and THAT could be optical illusion - something TC may be familiar with ;>)

So that's about it for now. From rusted hulk of a pan to a brand new pan from the front torsion bars to the rear torsion bars in under a week, with the body mounted for transit to it's new home AND the body and pan fit to a tee, not to mention machine-like seam welds everywhere, thanks to Chris (DAMN! He's good!)

Boy! When we get rolling we really cover some ground!

Next stop, Beaufort, where I'll be separating the pan and body again to finish the pan reconditioning (new bushings, brake lines, mechanicals....all that stuff, and then lots of semi-black Rust-Oleum paint to make it shine like new!

I guess the moral of this story is, if your front wheels are not centered in the front wheel wells, then somebody didn't check the distance from the front torsion bars to the body mount holes when they were setting up your pan, OR you've got one of those rare, "stretched front" fiberglass bodies that is longer than usual.

Hey....it could happen!

gn

See Y'all again in a few weeks!

Great news, Gordon!
I can't wait to see what she looks like -- take a little time to shoot a photo or two of each stage, willya?
Start a thread or something?

A quick poke through our member's photos shows quite a few guys DO have that rare stretched fiberglass body-style. In some instances, even the rear wheel positioning is suffering:

https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=pascalesphoto&f=DSCF0290.JPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=frankyn&f=STA71694.JPG
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=boatswain&f=B_poK3wWk~%24_KGrHgoH-C4EjlLl0-E2BKdce_Izg~~_3.jpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=interseller&f=IMG_1336.jpg
https://www.speedsterowners.com/files/view.asp?sf=bpkm&f=speedster1.jpg








I got bored . . . . . never mind.

Here's side view of real deal at $160k -

http://chicagosportscars.com/cars/gallery/3037821.html

Noticed the red and black ones are both missing the fiberglass "mud shield" panels -- and you can see daylight (and bumper support bracket) in front of the wheels.

It's tougher to get a pan centered in the wheel wells than I first though, But a can do deal

I would say measure your cab carefully to pan fit.

First find the sweet spot for the rear wheels of the pan to cab fit.

Then remember the front cab support can be drilled and moved forward or rearward to get the front beam to center. I didn't have the floors in when I did this. and I even had a 4ft peace of the tunnel bottom off before I cut the tunnel.

If I had it to do again would have also removed the fork section forward of the rear K frame and redesigned my rear floor so any Honda seats would work my car.

Having the bottom off the tunnel makes that a more do able thing . I wish i had thought of that then .

You could really make it hard for someone to distinguish these cars form the real deal

All this plus the hand brake mod to put the old T handle type brake handle under the dash board. and the hand wheel heater control. And while your in the tunnel make the heat duct upgrades for good heat.

These are all do able. I have been studying on this for a while. The tunnel to K frame will be the trickiest part. More 3/8x 5 plate steel to make it strong enough to live. down both sides of the tunnel are needed .

I do think it will work.

" . . . and you can see daylight (and bumper support bracket) in front of the wheels."


Why continue on with a error in design made fifty years ago. Especially when the fix is as easy as a ruler and Sawz-All away?

COME ON NOW ! ! ! Those lame front wheels just look ASS . . . no way around it. Certainly no defending it with a picture of a half century old car and a claim of authenticity made for a fiberglass kit.

Tom:

A Sawzall is SO passe. We cut everything on the pan last week with a right-angle grinder and a cut-off wheel. Wicked fast, uber accurate and made enough sparks to chase away Chris' BIG dog, Baxter. I had even bought a tube of new Sawzall blades which went unused after Chris made the first couple of cuts. PISSA!

gn

A Plasma cutter is even faster. but I have used more than my share of the cutoff wheels before I got smarter. But many of the older welds when moving the front support work better if drilled out.Same with the tunnel bottom , It goes back in better..

I had to remove a portion of the super beetles tunnel bottom to bolt in part of the rear forks upgrade when it went fully automatic. That hard on a completely assembled car.It made it, a lot harder..

G

TC - you have a twisted mind! I LIKE IT!!.....A LOT!!

TC is a man of many talents and interests. I continue to be impressed.

. . . . all talk . . . I never finish anything that I'm not forced to.

I have a plasma cutter, and almost broke it out, but it takes a while to get the hang of it if you're trying to be surgical about what you're cutting - I was a little worried either Dad or I might have gotten a little too excited with it and create more work in repairing a plasma cutter "oops" than it was helping us avoid. :) On some of the sections we were dealing with, it was a pretty intricate process. I was also lazy in buying the replacement consumables I needed to get it going again, so the cutting wheel and sawzall worked pretty well.

Next time, I may let Dad loose with it, because it IS a really fun thing to play with!

That's how it starts, Chris. A little innocent fun with a Sawz-All or a plasma cutter, and before you know it ...
Well ...

Cory - its like the old saying goes....'Hoopty happens'!

FWIW-reference data on frame shortening methods (scroll down to chassis shortening methods):
http://www.shining-wit.net/rick/buggy/design/body/#Chassis%20Shortening%20Methods