VW freeway flyer trans. Low miles since rebuilt.

4th gear is ???

...after 3rd. 

That's very funny, Bob! Not helpful at all (I was just asking so people would know what they were getting), but funny.

_(smart*ss!)

Stock third and fourth welded

4th gear is .089 with the 3.88ring and pinion 

is the standard freeway flyer 

Anyone for a fifth?

Sorry, Al.  Mary's away this weekend, so I'm sitting around wondering what to do all day...

The weather's too rotten to take my car out.

I know what you mean Bob, it is miserable here as well and we had snow yesterday ... so salt is all over the roads now so I am out for the season, well maybe around the block as it is raining today and it could wash it away.

It's raining here too, guys; I was already past stir-crazy this morning, but I've had a nap and lunch, showered and am quite refreshed...

Oh, Anthony- so 1.26 3rd?

Okay.  Back to the transmission for sale...

Sorry for all the thread drift, Anthony, but winter is approaching, and we northerners get a little cranky this time of the year and look for any amusement we can find, or create.

Don't be sorry, Bob; we're keeping Anthony's thread at the top of the list. We're doing him a favor.

Tony, how does Mitch like his 5 speed?

The last time I spoke Mitch he took it for a drive and other than getting use to the tight shifter it felt like a different car.  He noted that with every shift he's right in the power/torque band and didn't feel the need to rev it so high in gear before shifting due to the close ratios of third, fourth and fifth.  The answer to your question would be yes! But you should ask him or maybe he will pipe in on this post.

 

Will and Tony, reading this after literally just getting back from a three-week trip to the UK. Typing at 3 am (11 am UK time).

Through a bizarre twist of events, I've had the five-speed for seven weeks but have only been able to drive it once. I threw my back out the day I got the car back, couldn't drive for almost a month, and then had to leave on the trip - which we couldn't cancel.

Rain in the forecast, so it may still be a few days more before I can get out there and flog it.

The drive home from Tony's was a revelation - a curvy, up-and-down road with 50 mph traffic where I've always felt 'between gears' - revving third too high or lugging fourth on the upgrades. Suddenly, it felt like a modern gearbox - with always a 'right' gear to grab.

Strangely, even though I was now driving at lower, more 'unstrained' revs, the car felt a lot quicker - like it had an extra 10-15 hp. What I was feeling was more torque since I could stay in the fat part of the torque curve running up through the gears, and I think that confirmed what I've always suspected - in the seat of the pants, we often mistake torque for power. This two-liter has never felt better.

I just may have found the most expensive way to add 10 hp to a Type 1 motor!

 

Mitch, what is the "fat" part of your rpm-range?

I like to rev to 3,000 from 1st to 2nd (very close ratio) and hit 3,500 for the other shifts though sometimes I hit 4,000 into 3rd and 4th if it's uphill.

I like to run/drive at 3,000, car likes it there as well (runs coolest).

problem is, at 3,000 in 4th, I'm going 60, great for back-roads, not so great for freeways/highways...(4:12 axle)

Will Hesch posted:

 

....problem is, at 3,000 in 4th, I'm going 60, great for back-roads, not so great for freeways/highways...(4:12 axle)

I hear a 5 speed calling your name, Will. _{(it's very soft; can't you hear it? It's saying "Will, come and get me and we can drive anywhere, rip through the gears around town and never be passed on the highway again!")}

If you start the process with Gene Berg Ent. now it might even be in the car in time for the summer driving season (sorry, but as optomisitic as I am, I can't in good conscience even suggest it will be ready for spring). If you start with another core you wouldn't have to take your car apart until it's ready, and then a couple days (or weekend) and voila! it'll be a blast! 

You know you want to...

just a little insight once you obtain a berg 5 speed. I have done several with a vw pan and there is some modifications to the torsion tunnel and the shifter installation. Not difficult but it takes some cutting, grinding and welding.  If you have a IM with a custom frame rather than vw pan I suggest you contact me for the installation procedures. I am doing one at the moment.

So you are doing a VW Type I tranny to Berg... does it have a Type I engine?

..."never be passed on the highway again"...Al, you kill me

It would be nice, I've been watching the one that's still (I think) on the Samba for months now, but it's got the wrong gearing (for me) and I don't want to pay twice for a 5 speed cause I know that won't make it a 10 speed, just an over-priced hunk of aluminum, magnesium, brass and steel. Something will turn up.

Will Hesch posted:

 

...I like to rev to 3,000 from 1st to 2nd (very close ratio) and hit 3,500 for the other shifts though sometimes I hit 4,000 into 3rd and 4th if it's uphill.

I like to run/drive at 3,000, car likes it there as well (runs coolest).

problem is, at 3,000 in 4th, I'm going 60, great for back-roads, not so great for freeways/highways...(4:12 axle)

 

Will, my shifts with the four-speed were about the same as yours, but with a 3.88, 3000 saw about 64 mph and 3500 about 74 (70 was about 3250).

We kept the same .89 top gear (which is now 5th), dropped 3rd just a bit lower than it was, and made 4th just about midway between. This means if I shift at 3500 now in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, the revs stay above 2500, which is where the meat of the torque curve starts with this motor.

Here's a graph that compares my old and new gearing.

 

IaM-Ray posted:

So you are doing a VW Type I tranny to Berg... does it have a Type I engine?

I am currently doing another one on a IM. The trans for sale is one I recently completed. Both have type 1 engines. Read previous posts. 

I assume they fit an IM with the bigger nosecone then, @Anthony? I've always wondered, and secretly hoped not.

Will Hesch posted:

..."never be passed on the highway again"...Al, you kill me

It would be nice, I've been watching the one that's still (I think) on the Samba for months now, but it's got the wrong gearing (for me) and I don't want to pay twice for a 5 speed cause I know that won't make it a 10 speed, just an over-priced hunk of aluminum, magnesium, brass and steel. Something will turn up.

So "sometimes" my writing takes a bit of a creative turn. You have to admit, though, it does sound good....

I think I know the one you're talking about- it's been brought up here before and has some slightly strange gear choices, and I don't blame you for staying away from it.

Here's a couple of different gear ratios- the first has the 4.125 r&p you have now, so if you like ripping around town this is a good way to go. The .82/4.125 gives really close to the same top speed as the .89/3.88, and I like the spacing through it. This would be really fun to drive, around town and on the highway!

If you aren't crazy about the low 1st/2nd you have now, the 2nd example uses a 3.88 r&p with stock 1st, 2nd and .89 in 5th with the popular 1.48/1.12 short 3rd and 4th in between. As I said, top 5th cruising speed is almost exactly the same. Or you could put the 3.88 in example 1 for some really long legs...

http://calc.teammfactory.com/i...26+2&trannytype=

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

I assume they fit an IM with the bigger nosecone then, @Anthony? I've always wondered, and secretly hoped not.

Stan 

the berg five has a larger nose cone and intermediate housing. The one I am using for the IM is an older series five speed and has a slightly different nose cone than the current ones berg sells. 

i sent a picture to you. 

What a way to keep the ad at the top of the forum!

ALB posted:

Will Hesch posted:

..."never be passed on the highway again"...Al, you kill me

It would be nice, I've been watching the one that's still (I think) on the Samba for months now, but it's got the wrong gearing (for me) and I don't want to pay twice for a 5 speed cause I know that won't make it a 10 speed, just an over-priced hunk of aluminum, magnesium, brass and steel. Something will turn up.

So "sometimes" my writing takes a bit of a creative turn. You have to admit, though, it does sound good....

I think I know the one you're talking about- it's been brought up here before and has some slightly strange gear choices, and I don't blame you for staying away from it.

Here's a couple of different gear ratios- the first has the 4.125 r&p you have now, so if you like ripping around town this is a good way to go. The .82/4.125 gives really close to the same top speed as the .89/3.88, and I like the spacing through it. This would be really fun to drive, around town and on the highway!

If you aren't crazy about the low 1st/2nd you have now, the 2nd example uses a 3.88 r&p with stock 1st, 2nd and .89 in 5th with the popular 1.48/1.12 short 3rd and 4th in between. As I said, top 5th cruising speed is almost exactly the same. Or you could put the 3.88 in example 1 for some really long legs...

http://calc.teammfactory.com/i...26+2&trannytype=

The 4.12 R/P combo I ran in one of my berg 5, I actually liked it more. The first thru four where slightly lower overall ratios and the .082 brought it back to having a 3.88 in fifth gear.  I don't push that combo unless in a bug or bus. Keep in mind, it all depends on how you drive. Mitch's motor -cam timing and compression matches great along with his driving style. Someone who wants to cruise the autobahn would want different ratios.

I want to know if a Subaru 5-speed will work in a Speedster.

I like that you can use your existing shifter and it may not require the torsion tunnel modification.

It may not work in a Speedster because it moves the engine up and back a bit.

IaM-Ray posted:

Anyone for a fifth?

Michael McKelvey posted:

I want to know if a Subaru 5-speed will work in a Speedster.

I like that you can use your existing shifter and it may not require the torsion tunnel modification.

It may not work in a Speedster because it moves the engine up and back a bit.

You'd have to fabricate mounts, I don't know if it will fit between the frame horns, I'm not sure if it will clear the torsion tube, and depending where the shift rod comes out of the trans, some fancy fabrication of shift linkage may be needed as well, but other than that it'll fit right in!  Al

Of course, in a Speedster replica, you mount the engine and transmission in the opposite direction of stock application, i.e., engine rear, transmission front.  As a result, you need, among other things, the subarugears reverse-cut ring and pinion gear.  Without that mod, you would have 1 forward gear and 5 reverse gears.  LOTS of discussion on this subject on samba.

@ALB, I think http://www.subarugears.com/ covers most or all of these issues.

 

There are some precautions to take with that tranny... ask me how I know. 

OK, how do you know?

Here's a chart that shows at the end - the 5 spd Subbie trans ratios and rpm/speed -

http://www.rjes.com/html/gearbox_types.html

I can see doing subbie trans along with the Subbie engine trans plants - but engine adapters/flywheel/clutch/starter add to much to mix the 2.

When I drove my original 60hp 356A I really liked the length of the 2nd gear.  I never thought this one out completely in my last build so with my full subie I do find that the torque band is so different that I went with 4 close ratio and an OD 5th ... but then again I might have liked an even lower OD as 3100rpn gives me 70mph ish... 175hp makes this baby fly.  

It really is hard to try different set ups in these cars before taking the plunge with your budget. 

Michael McKelvey posted:

I want to know if a Subaru 5-speed will work in a Speedster.

I like that you can use your existing shifter and it may not require the torsion tunnel modification.

It may not work in a Speedster because it moves the engine up and back a bit.

The suby trans is longer. which means it has to go forward a bit in order to the wheels in the center of the fender well.  but if someone wants it, It can be done.

Looks like it's a cinch. $5,000 and a li'l fabrication.... can't afford NOT to do it. 

Anthony posted:

Michael McKelvey posted:

I want to know if a Subaru 5-speed will work in a Speedster.

I like that you can use your existing shifter and it may not require the torsion tunnel modification.

It may not work in a Speedster because it moves the engine up and back a bit.

The suby trans is longer. which means it has to go forward a bit in order to the wheels in the center of the fender well.  but if someone wants it, It can be done.

Does it hit the torsion tube (if the car has one)?

Yes it would. Cars with pans are tight at nose cone. The IM chassis I am working with at the moment has two torsion adjusters at the nose cone which make it real tight. Once I finish this car I will post some pictures. If I do another IM chassis car the labor would be the customers deciding factor.