Wanna Be 356 Owner in Virginia

Scott:

I'd step back and take a look at all the makers before jumping in. I'd also sit down and consider how you intend to drive the car, and whether you want an all season vehicle or a "fairweather friend".

There are a number of owners in your neck of the woods from VA south and up into MD and PA who can provide answers and guidance.

Build time is a consideration as well, and you might be surprised at the differences from one manufacturer to another.

What about used vs. new? There are always some nice cars available that should be reasonably sorted so you can avoid potential issues.

Lastly, search this site for answers. It is truly a fantastic resource!

Good luck and WTTM. Contact MUSBJIM for a definition.

Are roll up windows a priority?  If so.........a D roadster or Cab would be the ticket.

I am 6"3 and have a Beck Speedster and it fits me very well.

I would think twice about giving up an open air car.

Of course I am a big motorcycle fan and ride so maybe safety is not my priority.

That was six foot three inch hight.

My wife did not not want me cutting myself short.

Your other opportunity for some comparison shopping would be to attend Corn Daze in Peoria. IL

It's not Carlisle, but...

Scott, I've just ordered a new Speedster from Vintage Speedsters (in L.A.) after hanging out here for about a year and a half to get a feel for what owning one of these cars would be like.

The first thing that struck me was how many of them end up back on the market after just a year and several thousand miles. I didn't want that to happen to me, so have been trying pretty hard to figure out why that is.

One big thing is just how different the Speedster is from the modern cars most of us drive every day. It was brilliant engineering for 1955, but is something of a joke by today's standards. Most of the comforts and conveniences and performance we now expect in even a basic economy car are missing in the Speedster.

Most Speedsters (with a few expensive exceptions) are slow, uncomfortable, tempermental, and noisy fair weather machines that need more attention than modern cars while costing as much as a nice, used Boxster. If you fully understand that going in (and if your better half does, too), you'll probably be OK.

Which one to get only you can decide. Some time spent here will help a lot in sorting out the various options - new or used, which maker, body style, hot motor or tame, wheels, suspension, brakes, exhaust, trim - the choices and combinations are endless. It took me over a year before I thought I understood enough to decide.

And why are so many of us still absolutely nuts about cars that on paper seem like such a royal pain?

Around here, it's simply called 'The Madness'. Someday, someone will probably write a book about it.

That someone might be me. Or maybe you.

I am a big fan of Steve Lawing and the wonderful cars he makes, but you will have a 2-3 year wait ahead of you.  If you're not prepared to wait that long and you want the taller windshield and roll-up windows, contact Henry Reissner at Intermeccanica and discuss one of his used/reconditioned cars.  I've seen some nice ones in roughly the same price range as Steve's cars.

All that said, I am also a big fan of the Beck cars, for obvious reasons :-)

Well said.

It's not a madness.  It's a very rational approach to having fun in a very unique little car that very few others understand.

And if you take a very rational approach to buying one, perhaps you will not end up like others who buy one and then sell it after a few thousand miles.  Do not be swayed by the looks of these cars when you are considering buying one; that is, unless you like to look at it sitting in your garage or driveway.

The main consideration should be the mechanical aspects, as that is what determines how well it will drive, and hence, how much pleasure you will get from the car, and therefore, how long you will keep it.

Too many people buy on inpulse and looks, and regret it later.

I'm on my third Speedster, and have learned lessons along the way, and the main one is that you need to get a car that you enjoy driving, not one that looks nice.  A beautiful speedster looks nice, but might not be what you want in a driver.

Try as many of them as you can before you purchase one, and don't let your enthusiam rush you into something you may soon regret.

^x2.

Listen to Bob. Too many impulse purchases for cars only slightly more usable than the average golf-cart.

^^x3...no need to ask why.

My wife is used to a modern car and has had BMW's over the last ten years or so and had never driven an antique car without traction control, antilock brakes and all the modern amenities so I was a little concerned when she brought home a VS Carrera ...  it may not have the horse power but it will go, especially with a 1915 cc plant and she can still make it dive into corners so you're thankful for the dash grab. She's only had it a week or so but has taken right to it and absolutely loves it!

We did purchase used from a local dealer. Was traded by someone who had too many cars and wanted a brand new Vette.

As soon as I can get her out of it and drive it myself, I'll let you know what I think.

Mike

"I am tired of cutting bait and am to plop my $ down, but would sure love to gain the benefit of the years of experience from member-owners in regards to their lessons learned (with or without nuts) in the Speedster vs Cabriolet decision."

As mentioned above, there is a third option - an Intermeccanica Roadster.  High windscreen, roll-up windows, and comfortable to drive.

http://intermeccanica.com/athi...r-vehicles/pre-owned

There are lots of options out there - choose wisely based on your preferences and needs.

... and checkbook / bank balance!

If I were up in Canada, I'd have a tough time not calling Intermeccanica and placing an order for a new cab, or picking up that red roadster in his pre-owned section of the website. (Fun spending someone else's money).

Buy Canadian! 

Actually, Henry sells most of his cars to the U.S., Japan and elsewhere.  Due to Cdn. regulations, he can't sell new cars to Canadians, unless we live in British Columbia.  I have always bought used from Henry.

No one should let his Canadian address stop them from getting a great car from him.  He has a U.S.distributor.  The black car featured here is a beauty - we saw it at Carlisle.  It was built for a vintage racer who wanted that 'vintage racer' look.

http://www.intermeccanica.us/

Wow!  What a response!  OK, I am going to take this slowly, cause the faster I go, seems the behinder I get.

1) A/C yes or no?  I've heard both sides - get it as it will make it more marketable . . .  especially to those buyers in the hot/humid portions of the 356 market area (FL, TX, and CA for example) and, don't get it as is not original and that is what a rag top is for.

2) A used Intermeccanica seems to be in the $50K range, but I can get a new Beck or SAS in the mid-$30K range. . .  which is just about my initial budget.  It may be a better product, but after seeing the specs on both the Beck and SAS (and touring the SAS production facility), I am quite satisfied with their packages.   OK I can see your responses spooling up right now . . . define better?  And guys/gals lets try not to get this into a USA vs Canada thing . . .  I love my neighbors to the north (I lived for 9 years in northern MT and have spent a lot of my professional career traversing between Montreal and Vancouver and everyplace in between) to allow this thread to denegrade to that.

3) Leather - yes/no?  My wife doesn't like leather seats (go figure!).  Although she would reconsider if I pushed the issue, is the current Naugahyde quality sufficient for a quality leatherless interior?

and lastly,

4) Resale.  Are there models that hold their resale values better?  And to add to the discussion, outlaw or traditional?  A lot of what I've heard (read) today (and in various threads in the past) has been to get what I want.  That being said, my desire would be to get a water-cooled Speedster, D Roadster, or Cabriolet (all cloth tops), in the low to mid $30K range . . .  but of these which would have the better resale value?

Lastly, if any of you are passing by or within a 2 hour drive / 1 hour flight (140 miles) of Fairfax, VA, I would sure like to check out your drive.  Just remembered, anybody in Paris?  I'll be there for a couple weeks the end of June.

Thanks all for your thoughts and inspiration, consternation, and perspiration towards my endeavor!

"And guys/gals lets try not to get this into a USA vs Canada thing . . .  I love my neighbors to the north (I lived for 9 years in northern MT and have spent a lot of my professional career traversing between Montreal and Vancouver and everyplace in between) to allow this thread to denegrade to that."

No worry of that on this site!  These cars and owners know no borders.  We are all equally crazy.

I meant no disrespect in my previous post. I was, in fact, trying to express my admiration for Intermeccanica's products and I erroneously thought that buying one directly from  Henry in Canada, other than in British Columbia, as Bob has taught me, was possible and a great opportunity.

Back to the main focus of the thread.

We looked and researched for over year and were just about to have one built when I found ours. My wife had a fairly specific set of requests / demands for hers when she started and it evolved from there. Originally, she wanted a classic and ultimately once she saw hers, it went from that to a widebody / outlaw style. AC was never a consideration, interiors and cosmetics / accessories can be changed and everyone has their favorite builder and they all produce quality coachwork. Intermeccanica was my first choice but just couldn't pull a $60K trigger new or $50K used.

I only had one ask:If we buy it , we drive it. I don't want something stitting in the garage that never moves and just gets wiped with a diaper. 

Bottom line is take your time, figure your must haves and work out a number in your head. Keep an open mind and relax and then the process is much more enjoyable!

Wine does help a bit.

The appropriate wine intake varies with the level of angst experienced during the decision making process. That said, the quality of the wine must be maintained during the process.

I recommend Grange if the decision is relative to an Intermeccanica.

I slugged down some Kendall-Jackson while doing mental gymnastics about my Vintage.

FYI, one final comment re: Intermeccanica.  Its roots are in Hungary, where Frank Reisner came from; in Canada, to where he and his family emigrated; in Italy, where they produced a broad range of speed parts and cars for close to twenty years; in California, where the idea of the IM Speedster replica was started; and now in Vancouver, where son Henry runs the business.

So, IM has a long, and international, history. 

Regular programming can now resume.

Scott--my complements--you are going about your research the right way and I know you will make a good decision.

You asked if anyone was near Fairfax, VA and too bad we couldn't have gotten together last week when I was in Arlington after the great Carlisle event.  My Speedster was mid way through a nice 2,493 mile trip from Hot Springs to Carlisle and home via Arlington, VA to visit our daughter's family and new granddaughter. I don't know if doing big road trips is on your list of requirements but many of these cars, if properly prepared, can comfortably cover as many miles as anything else on the road.

Good luck with your search and it's good to have you aboard.

Scott

I have a JPS coupe and live in Annapolis.  You are welcome to check out the build quality on my coupe and take it for a drive.  Kelly Frazier lives in the Columbia area and has a JPS speedster.  If you are free on Saturday morning there is a huge C&C in Hunt Valley, MD between 8-10.   Check them out on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/HuntValleyHorsepower

Rob

You need to get in touch with Syl Mathis in Falls Church, VA.  He has one of Alan Merklin's built Speedsters.  Aptly named Candy due to bright white exterior and red interior like a Candy Cane. 

I've seen very nice used IM's under $30k.  Obviously they don't depreciate like others.

If you want creature comforts like AC and heat - go for a Roadster with Subbi power.

Rob,

I would love to make the C&C but I'll be residing in the bowels of the Pentagon this weekend.

Wolfgang,

I did run over to Syl's place a couple of weeks ago and tried not to salivate on his outlaw Speedster which he was trying to keep clean for Carlisle.  Took lots of pics which only turned up the burners at home with my wife and son who asked why I'm taking so long to make my decision!  If anyone wants to see these let me know and I'll post them.

1. Should have ditched the graduation.

2. Tell your son to get his own car!

Priorities man, priorities!!!!!!!!

Jeff

Hey Scott,

I'm in Towson and have a new VS with less than 100 miles on it.  I have a tiny issue with the idle that I haven't fixed yet, but you're more than welcome to check it out as well.

Chris

Chris--that is a good lookin' car!  Excellent paint, too.  Congrats!

Ditto to Jack's observation. Love that color and the overall look of the car.

Again, a lot of good comments here, but I'm going to have to do some cat herding and revive my previous Qs on 1) Leather/Naugahyde, 2) Air Conditioning, and 3) experience/knowledge members may have IRT resale values of the various models.

Rob and Chris - I look forward to connecting with you for a check out of your cars - it will have to be after June 30 when I get back in the States.

Scott

Scott, I only have an opinion on one of your items...

I chose vinyl over leather because these cars aren't terribly weather-tight and leather doesn't react well to being wet (which always struck me as odd because cows stand in the rain all the time, but I digress).  Wipe off your vinyl with a towel and you're good to go.

Jack, Bob - Thanks guys.  We love it.

If you do buy a weather tight speedster (they are available) leather is the way to go.  I've always had leather upholstery in all my sports cars for the feel and patina it develops.

As for resale value, I assume the higher the initial cost, the higher the resale value down the road.  However, a lot depends on how you maintain the car, how it is presented, and who the buyer is.

There are two Speedsters for sale in the Classifieds section right now - a Thunder Ranch and a Beck.  Might be worth investigating them.

Many on this site don't want to 'push' specific makes of Speedsters over others, so it might be difficult to get a solid answer to the resale question.

YOUR CAR IS GORGEOUS

Scott, you can take this as just one data point among the many you'll probably get.

I've been following prices of VS Speedsters, new and used, for the past year or so and have learned this:

A new VS with an average number of options including a pretty tame engine upgrade (1915 cc, dual webers, 3.88 r&p, external oil cooler, etc.) currently costs about $27-$30K out the door.

The same car, after about a year of use and just a few thousand miles usually ends up selling for around $20-$23K. Some private owners and some resellers often ask a lot more, but those cars tend to stay on the market for a while and probably end up eventually selling for around $20K-$23K. That's quite a drop in value for a few thousand miles, but probably no worse than for most new cars.

After that, the price stays pretty stable for a while, assuming a car is clean and hasn't been abused or done up with some questionable 'upgrades'. I recently looked at a 12-year-old VS in very nice shape with about 5000 miles that the owner was asking $20K for. I'm guessing it probably sold for about $18K.

Don't know much about other makes, but judging from asking prices I've noticed I'd guess the price drop on used Speedsters is about the same on a percentage basis.

The older a car gets, the more condition seems to affect its value than age.

And FWIW, Kirk at VS seems to be trying to talk new customers out of ordering leather for the reasons others have mentioned. The vinyl he uses looks very close to leather and, in an open car subject to rain, tree sap, and birdies that go dump in the night, much easier to maintain.

By the way, another rule that applies to shopping for Speedsters is that just when you think you've asked your last question, you think of two more.

Well, OK - three more.

ditto on Vintage's vinyl over leather. Mine has had it since 2002 with about 14 k in mileage and the last two years in a warm garage during upper midwest winters with the top and side curtain on and a car cover on it. I condition it before I put it up for the winter and again when I unwrap it and it is as good, if not better than any leather I have ever had. Plus, your going to have to look awfully close to determine it isn't real. (Much like the rest of the car.)

Scott,

To help you herd the cats:

1. I think the comments here are leaning towards vinyl. Vinyl is going to be easier to keep clean, and leather is going to be more tempermental in hot/sunny/humid environments, which goes to #2,

2. A/C - I live in the wine country of California where it gets hot, but not humid. I could put the top up for shade, but it cuts my view of the vineyards (and rolling up the the big house at Kendall-Jackson). I know the weather around DC is hot AND humid and you might find it beneficial.  Remember though that the cars arent really insulated and are going to have to work to keep it comfortable.  This will create a drag on the engine.  Something to think about.

3. Resale.  I think Sacto Mitch did a killer job laying out the resale for the Vintage speedsters. They are the largest builder of speedsters so there is more in the market. I would hypothesize that if there were similar numbers in the marketplace from other builders that the values would correspond - the % drop from new to used would be about the same.

Scott,

Should you go speedster hopefully you're brighter than I am!

Today was sunny/cloudy in western Connecticut, so after buzzing about on non-essential errands I left the speedster in the driveway, (with the top down of course), intending to find reasons to fire it up again later.

I simply didn't notice that sunny/cloudy turned into cloudy/rain drizzles!!!

Open speedsters take a long, loooong, time to dry out.  

The best vinyl is Alante brand it is soft and close to leather I have used it in all of my project speedters. Yes, Kirk at VS can get it as well as any auto interior shop. ~Alan