what different engines fit in the speedster?

i have a 57 speedster and it has a soingle carb 1600 vw engine.
i would like to have some more power and was wondering what motors
are being put in these cars. I believe i have a 63 vw pan as a base
with the stock 4 speed from vw. any suggestions?
kerry

You can increase the displacement to anything from a 1776cc to a 2300+ type 1 powerplant (type1 is VW bug motor). You could even bolt in a type 4 motor. Talk to Paul Harford about the pros and Cons of the switch. I think he was talking about putting a V8 into one of his specialty cars. That guy will do anything.

Money will buy just about anything.

Check some old posts on engine woes and success stories.

Charles, there are guys driving around with Porsche flat sixes hanging out the back end. I think that a small block Chevy would be a nice combo.....want to do a wheelie...no problem, just step on the gas! You could call it the Chevster.
Ron

I helped retro fit a Toyota pick up with a Chevy small bock it was dubbed a "Toilet"

I fit a GM 4.1 liter into my Ghia:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/File0003.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/TeamEvil/File0002.jpg

No reason that it wont fit into a Speedster. Maybe a little body modification here and there, but they're fiberglass . . . they're MADE to mess with.

Luck,

TC

There are some lengthy posts about compatible engines, pros, cons and general bullshit somewhere on this site. IMHO opinion, a 2270 Type$4 (oops) is probably the best all-purpose engine for the replicar speedster... but now that patrick has opened Ms. Porschee and her Pandora's box, hmmmmmm?

Are you could go one step further and have what is basically a type 4 with liquid cooled jackets and fuel injection and computer controlled........A subaru 2.2 or 2.5 turbo or not.

Charles,

I'm just swapping from a 1641cc Type I to a 2270cc Type 4.

Should be like night and day, but it'll be a few months 'til the cars running to report the difference in person.

The engine, once converted, is a bolt-in replacement.
However, suspension, gearbox, and brake upgrades go hand-in-hand with such a jump in performance (not to mention instrumentation, breather, oil cooler, oil filter, ... ).

Simon

Why install a 2,270 type 4 when you can have a 2,387 type 1?

'Cause then everybody would be just like you, George. I know when installing a type4 in a Spyder it is a good idea to install a motor mount supporting the pulley (front in a Spyder) end of the motor. Just something to consider.

Hey T.C., what happened to the Ghia?
Alan...Toilet...gives new meaning to the comment, "What a crappy car!", or, "Man, that car goes like sink!", or if you park in a very large parking lot and forget where your car is parked...you could say to your wife, "Sorry dear, I've missed the toilet."
Ron

I am with george on the big type 1. I am not 100% sure about the new Aluminum cases only because I have not personally used one yet although there is a motor in the works using an AL case.

A modified mag case can handle an 82 or even 84 stroke(chevy journal) with a nice set of Weisco 94's. Maybe even sneak in a bigger stroke. I know some guys are getting bigger barrels in, but the 94 is a great piston.

Keep the comp ratio within a common sense range, nicely ported heads with a complimenting valves, cam, rockers, carbs, your set. Use quality parts.

Paul, Pandora's Porscheeet, did you say it was Boxster?

Ron,

Shop Fire! She burnt to the ground . . .

4.1 Liter "built motor", headman headers, Edlebrock, Engle, etc.
Kennedy adapter, lightened flywheel, 2300 flywheel, crush-lock
Rancho Pro Street Trans, posi, end plate, welded, axles, etc
Lowered spindles new brakes and hardware all around.
Aluminum 4 inch core radiator, galvi plumbing
Scat fast shifter
Chromed reversed wheels/new tires
Coupe to Cabrio body conversion
Everything else . . .

Burnt . . . . gone . . .

Pandora's 'Boxster' now that's funny. Makes me almost want to buy a Boxter and get a personalized plate... nah, maybe I'll buy a 2387 Type1... NOT!

I believe the question was, "What,besides a VW Type 1 can fit a speedster?"

WOW now this reminds me of the good old days!!!!!!! Now I'm right in the mix with my subaru argument....why not have it all baby!!!

Padora's Boxster, if you don't I won't,....open it. Too late. We will have to ask the original poster, was is alternative aircooled VW motors or other motors,.........ie: water cooled or Type Fore!

P-

why install a 2387 TI when you can install a 2980 Type IV???

That one had george's name all over it!

(as I walk away with a grin)

don't worry about going big, just do it right no matter what you go with. The 2270 Type IV is the most researched, most developed engine that I have worked with. we do more of these engines than all others combined, and due to this I have multiple combinations for any vehicle.

I really want to try putting the 4cyl turbo motor from a Talon/Eclipse into a Speedster and/or 911 one of these days. I figure these cars would be kind of fun with ~350hp to the wheels.

*wicked grin*

I'm just pretty damn pleased to have a CB Pat Downs 2110 going into this Speeder. I'm sure there are some mighty fine road worthy T4s set up for the long cruises, so I'm not knockin' them at all. But for me, this Pat Downs 2110 fits the bill. All good parts and the AL CB case that Patrick is refering to (IM has had some CB AL Cased cars built already, including CBs 2332.). I will tell you that I loved the idea of a 2332, but just could not see doing 3200 mile trips in one.

I hope George comes out west. It would be neat to hear his baby next to the Paulie Monster. Besides, that really is a beautiful Speedster.

It all comes down to what you want to use them for. Subys are probably the ultimate cross country car and I can see the beauty there.. so much so that I considered one. But, I love the sound of those Webers gulping air and the look and Q that goes into Henry's Speedsters.

That 1776 that Justin just got was a great engine too. I think a solid 1776 mated to a 901 may be about it for hauling the long roads. I mean right there with the Subster's minus the Lexus-like AC/Heat. (JH and Steve will be riding in comfort, that's for sure!)

Paul, I will enjoy the ride in the beast. Bill's description just makes it a MUST! Heck, when it was running rough last Spring it still pulled like a 66 GTO..... thunder baby!

About the only engine I'll gripe about is those mexi-crates that some builders use.

My 3 cents
J

Listen to Jake, he knows...
One question though, Do you have to upgrade or change the type I tranny for the Type 4 engine swap???

JJ, it all depends on how you drive. The stock type1 box is ok up to 125 hp, after that it needs some help. I am sure if the clutch never got popped a stock one would last a long time. In a bug or a speedster with IRS a bus or 901 trans have been fitted. In Spyders it is difficult to NOT have a swing axle. Conversions have been done, but they are prohibitive due to cost and fabrication. When using a type4 motor, install a pulley-end mount, like in the bus. It will go a long way toward reducing abuse to the trans. I have a universal type1 case, and am modifying a waterboxer cast aluminum motor mount to fit my Spyder, and thus reduce any possibility of twist and the resulting wheel hop. I will post pictures when completed. BTW, I have a Vintage Spyder with a Raby 2165 and a slightly beefed freeway flyer type1 swing-axle trans.

JJ,
The best bet is to have your engine builder make a tranny recommendation. I had the jake & the boys up the hollow build my transmission to be sure it supported his Type4 and to date is/was money well spent, less than a grand.
For me that eliminated all the mysterious questions I personally couldn't answer and many vapid opinions thrown out by folks who read lots of VW magazines.

Let me rephrase that, I spoke with a few transmission builders and suppliers and found them a bit narrowly focused on their bottom line and mass sales figures... there, a little less caustic and I saved $500!

Thanks for the info, Im planning a transaxle upgrade before any future upgrade of my 1776... happy new year

Jim Ward wrote: "Subys are probably the ultimate cross country car and I can see the beauty there.. so much so that I considered one. But, I love the sound of those Webers gulping air and the look and Q that goes into Henry's Speedsters. "

IF you had that Suby in there, there would be so much LESS engine noise from the valves and jugs, that you could REALLY here those throttle bodies gulping!! Think of it!! No Carbs "Bogging" off the line!

Oh, and the additional 75+hp wouldn't hurt, either! (back me up here, Hoss!!)

Gordon
One of the Carburatored "Speedstah Guys" from Beaufort (almost down in "Jake Country")

Jim, I'm sure your new IM will be a beauty. I had to stop going down to see Henry and his new cars (the good part about living so close to the IM plant is that I can go and see them and talk to Henry. The bad part is that I can go see the new cars being built and THEN I WANT ONE). I love closing the door of an IM....hearing that Mercedes-like 'thunk'.
Ron

Yep, my car has a great sound, especially when you get on it. The problem is that it's a little too much sound, particularly with the top up. Steve and I will be discussing options when I drop the car off to him next week. Maybe a resonator? Certainly not one of them GUZZATATORS ;-)

GUZZATATOR: A universal term applied to devices whose function is not fully understood or for which the proper name is not known

John,
Before you went with SAW had you driven one of the other type of replicas with the more traditional engine set-up? I'm asking from the perspective of your engine's placement and possible noise variations to what the rest of us endure, particularly top-up.

I have that goofy suitcase sitting behind the seats, full of insulation and speakers and it dampens engine noise a bit...or rather it dampened the type1 engine's noise a bit. I had a great exhaust note to be reckoned with in that configuration.

My type4 has a different bunch of sounds that at 'around-town' and lightweight highway cruising speeds are sort of 'down-there' like I guess 'white-noise' and not too distracting with the top up...top down offers the requisite amount of outer ear- distractions. Dale B. says I sound like any other 67' squareback...
So much for the big-buckzzz exhaust system!

Just curious as most of us have a cavity behind the back seat tub wall and the engine bay firewall. I've got coolers, fans and pre-oilers in mine, and there is still some room for insulation I'm thinking of adding.

John
I installed a BAS exhaust system on a T-4 that I got from Jake Raby ...has two BMW mufflers in line, works well and is within acceptable noise levels but still has the "rumble".

I have also seen a 4 into 1 merged T-1 header that was plumbed out of sight up under the right rear fender well with a Flow-Master 40 muffler, that sounded great w/o too much in the way of excessive exhaust noise.

Paul, yes, I had a 2000 VS with a 1776 and Kirk's "special exhaust" which was a pair of quiet packs if I remember correctly. This was very quiet, with the exception of a lot of fan noise and valve clatter. Aside from the shape of the body, just about everything on the SAW Cabriolet is different, especially the sound.

The 2.2L Subaru engine is a 1998 model and has two catalytic coverters hooked in series, nothing else between engine and exhaust tip which I believe contains a mini-glasspack.

The silver car, which is also displayed on the SAW website, has a 1996 engine, also 2.2L but with only one converter and a muffler placed transversely and flowing into a tip. This car is a quiet as a new Bimmer. I'd like to be somewhere in between. I'll be discussing my options with Steve when I see him on Monday.

Gordon, if your carbs "bog off the line" they are set up wrong. Properly tuned Webers function flawlessly which is why they were used on Ferraris, Maseratis, Porsche RSK's, Aston-Martins, etc.

Ditto for Dellortos.

Engine size and horsepower is like Money. You never have enough! And when you think you have enough, you'll always want... more.
For awsome power to weight ratio vehicles, check out BOSS HOSS. It's a harley type Bike with a Chevy V8 for power. And then there's the prototype motorcycle from Chrysler. It uses a Viper V-10 for power.

Greg B

George, you are so right. I'm not the guy for jetting, Jake took care of that for me. Initially, I was petrified of synching, as I had only owned injected vehicles until recently. But it really is easy with a synchrometer and some patience. I can do it in about five minutes now, but haven't had to once I got it right. Idles at 700, NO bogging, accelerator pumps set perfect.Oh yeah, 2165 type1 by Jake, 44 idf's. My baby sits in the garage, battery in the house on float/trickle, awaiting spring...............

"Bogging off the line" ......is not only confined to carbs being "set up wrong" Improper engine timing, fuel presessure ,even a simple often over looked dirty fuel filter, a clogged jet, bad accelerator pump.

And don't forget improper advance or a point plate hanging up!

George:

You're right about the initial bogging......My Dells are running really well (even if intentionally a tad rich) except for the bog off-idle. Only been doing that since I hurriedly replaced the head-to-maniflod gaskets, so I just have to get in there and see what's going on (but been a little busy getting established in the Winter Hacienda). I suspect that I just have set them up properly again and they should be fine.

The air-fuel meter tells me I'm running about 13-13.5 at idle, and when I come off idle it bogs and pops thru one or both carbs (a bit too rich, I think), so I'll be looking at the accelerator pump stroke first, and then go from there. Left my jet selection in RI (Doh!) but I suppose I can come up with some Idle jets here if I get ambitious, or decide that it really needs something different. Come to think of it, I set the accelerator pump strokes on the car at about 90 - 95 humid, ambient degrees and it's now quite a bit colder so I guess that's a good place to start.

Gordon

Gordon, 13 or 13.5 to 1 is probably a bit too lean at idle for a VW type 1; The Weber guru in Salt Lake City checked out a STOCK 40 BHP type 1, and properly set up and tuned it was running 11.0 to 1 at idle! Popping/spitting back off-idle usually indicates too lean.

Make sure you don't have any vacuum leaks and your carbs are sync'd spot on, then if so and fuel mpressure and float levels are OK (and ignition timing) then try the next half size larger idle jet?

Roger......I'll look at it later this week.

Thanks!

gn

George: Carb update!

Yup, the Drivers side has a leak, at least from the changes noted when spraying carb cleaner around the gaskets......both the carb gasket AND manifold gasket are suspect. Maybe that's why just that side coughs off idle(?) Not super-bad, but just enough to be a pest.

I also suspect that the timing may be a little retarded, but I'll have to borrow a timing light and check that tomorrow (only have minimal tools here, so I'll be borrowing one from another local car club member).

Considering how fast I pulled the engine to fix that leak and threw it back in, I guess I shouldn't be too critical. Should have taken the time to make sure all surfaces were clean, right?
It's always easier to do it fast, rather than do it right, isn't it?? NOW I'm paying for that!!

I'll order a set of gaskets that I need and get to it in a week or so when they arrive. The good news is that it's an easy fix!

Gordon
One of the three "Speedstah Guys" from Beaufort

I think we should discuss what's better between type 1 and type 4, he he he