What does a car cost?

Thank you gentlemen for you help in the past. I am now putting together a budget for a summer speedster startup and adding up the numbers I was wondering if a nice car, good paint, limited leather, good carpet, can be built, with a Raby engine (what does a Raby engine cost anyway?) for less than $20,000? It seems to me that one should be able to build a car cheaper than buying one.

Darryll

Raby engines are excellent, if you want to go the type 4 route, but they are expensive. If you are in it for the long term, then an engine from Jake is a good bet. If you're going to own the car for 1 to 3 years and then sell it, then go with a cheaper (initially) type 1. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
Ron

Darryl. Frankly the answer will most often be "not Really".. I just completed a speedster that I started with a bargain....Body and rolling chassis for $1000.00. I just liscensed and insured it and my tally of receipts is around $14,000. I did everything myself, even painted it ( I'm a fair painter). Had I gotten a coveted Raby engine I would be easily around $19,000 invested. So (A) how much work afre you willing and able to do. And How much do you want to put in the drive train. Remember If you buy a $6-7,000 Raby engine you can't put a bargain transmision behind it. It's kind of a chain reaction arrangement. If you do it yourself......count the cost.....then add 40%, and you may be close.


Gclarke "The vacaville Guy"

Gary,
A THOUSAND BUCKS!?!?!?!?! Man, you CA guys have got it made...

I started my project over a year ago and thought I could do the whole thing for $15k. Its looking more like $25k and that will be doing the paint myself. If I had someone around here (Seattle) do the paint total would be more like $30k.

And my Raby engine was the last kit he offered, so I saved about $2k by doing a lot of things myself. Granted I spent quite a bit more for the wheels than I originally planned, and also for seats as well, but you will be amazed how quickly things add up and before you know it you are past your budget. Don't go the build route just to save money. Do it because you want to know every bolt on the car and be proud of all the good (and bad) parts of the car that you are responsible for putting together.

Chris

Dude, look at the classified herein...$15K for a used Vintage, can't do too much better for starters.

Paul-
I'll say! That car's got leather, and about $5K worth of udder schtuff. You want a deal- that car's a deal!

Darryll-
If you live out east and you want a $20K car with the hotted up motor, I'd buy Bruce's car in the classified section for $15K and get a nice CB Type 1 stroker, or the best type 4 you can afford. How much you'll spend for what you end up with is largly a function of where you live. Covered freight from the left coast to the midwest runs about $1500. Everybody will tell you they can get a better deal on freight, but they can't- it costs a lot to move a car. 95% of the cars on ebay on are in CA, and the three main builders righ now are in LA and Vancouver. If you live anywhere but CA, freight will eat pretty hard into your $20K budget. If you are out east- I'd look HARD at Bruce's car. If you are within 750 mi, I'd look HARD at Bruce's car. If you want something a little less, and live closer to KY (or TN, or somewhere) there is a white car on ebay with no reserve. They ran it through a couple of times before and got about $12K for it w/o making reserve.

About the white car in TN on ebay; it's at $9,800.00 right at this moment and it has no reserve. It's got 5 more days to the end of auction.

Stan, fortunately... or unfortunately... I live in Southern California. I can

Its ok to be picky...its all about what you want

Darryll, The only way to get exactly what you want is to buy new or build it yourself..I started out wanting a new one and was trying to figure a way to pay 20K without doing a loan.. but I had 15K in cash..Make a long story short, I bought an almost new one for 14K+
saved myself the 6K, I'm totally happy, no loan, and although it may
not be what I would have ordered, Its perfect for me....Hell, I couldn't decide exactly what I wanted anyway......
It all came down to the money..Never considered building my own, due
to having no talent in that arena....I know my limitations.....

It's like getting a house built for you. It takes a couple of tries until you finally figured out what you want.
Ron

I agree with Ron O, and disagree with all the posts that tell you to get what you want. No offense, but you have no idea what you want, and will not until you own one for about a year. I owned one for about a year, had another one built, and STILL have about 15 BIG things I would do differently if/when I do it again. About the only thing you can be sure of is color- everything else is trial and error. Spend the big bucks (and time) out of the shute, and your wife will say "enough" by the time you are really sure what you want (in about 2 years).

Stan has a good point

Hey Darryll,
It was said earlier, get what you want. It is a rare opportunity to sort of dial in a custom car. Problem is, you can't dial and out the expense factor. Good luck to you. I'm sure that you will get exactly what you want as you are doing all the preliminary things now, a step I missed a few years back.

Hey AuldFart, your car looks good, I must really like yellow speedsters, they look so 'Happy!' How you like your fuel injection set up...notable performance difference from previous set up?

Thanks Steven- It cost me several thousand dollars, but as a service to the forum, I'm offering it at a substantial discount, perhaps $500? email me offline, I'll be sitting by the computer waiting...

Stan sure does have a good point. You can do your homework until the cows come home and make the best decision you can and still buy a car that isn't exactly right. You really do have to live with these cars to find out what is important to you. Since there are usually many low mileage used Speedsters on ebay and other sales venues, it must be that some people with the fever to buy wind up not liking their cars at all, much less than finding that the features selected were not really what they wanted.

As much as I hate to admit it, I also agree with by brother Ron O. I was going to buy a new IM, but didn't have the info I needed to confidently pick the options for the car. Instead I bought a decent used IM, and am now living with it, playing with it, changing it, and learning. Give me another year or so and I will be ready to order a new one.

Stan, I would be interested to hear what things you learned since getting your second car.

Why do Raby engines cost so much, $11,000, I

It's nice to know that my brother can afford a new IM (did you get some money from mom?). It would be a hard choice...deciding between a new IM, or a new Honda S2000. More than once I've thought of selling my IM and buying a used Honda S2000, but then I get in mine and go for a drive and all thoughts of selling her go out the window. Then some crap gets in my idle jets and the car won't run worth a damn, and I think, "I'm going to sell this thing", but then I get it fixed and go for a drive........
Ron, your car should be an absolute blast to drive with that new motor.

Darryll,

11,000 for a high performance engine doesn't seem too out of line depending on what you want to end up with as a vehicle. Does that include the cooling system and accessories? Econoimies of scale apply to larger volumes - Jake's engines are not mass produced but more hand crafted I would think.

I am getting quotes on a high performance V8 for my next project and it is more. The engine I have to buy for my homebuilt plane is even more expensive. A 100hp airplane engine for 14,000, a 125 hp engine is about 17,000, a 150 hp engine is over 20k. There are lower cost alternatives...

It seems like a hard pill to swallow, but in my mind, in this car application (as in the plane application) the engine is the key to performacne and the character of the vehicle - that is one place I personally would want to put the money.

What is a comparable T1 from the other guys ending up at? Anyone care to tell us what they paid? I had mine built too long ago to compare to today's prices. I think in 1989 a 1915 out the door as a drop in was just under $3k. I think I put about that into my 2165 back then by buying the parts and having someone put it together. I woudl guess the same thing is probably between $5k and $6k now.

If I were to do it all again, I would buy used and drive the hell out of it.

Mike

Ron L, et al-

You know, I knew as soon as I posted that this question would come up.

If I were doing it for the last time, knowing what I know now, I

There is another alternative to the Speedster, and that is to buy a semi restored 356 coupe, forego the OEM engine and transmission and install a Vw engine drivetrain and aftermarket disk brakes. The coupe is an easy Outlaw candidate, great weather protection, perhaps safer car.

If Beck is introducing a Coupe in the not distant future that is another possibility, though if not mistaken its price for a very nice version will be closing in on $30k. One could buy a coupe for a bit more than 1/3 of that amount and redo the systems, new paint, etc., probably out of pocket will be about the same, but it would be a real Porsche. I am not completely sold on this approach as I hate seeing originals modified.

Re Speedsters in general, I have always said if the main players were building car outside of sunny California there would have been more focus given better weather protection and heat issues. IM being in Vancouver knows something about rainy weather which is reflected in their products.

Been there, done that, seen the movie, have the T-shirt. I looked at IM's, VS's, and one JPS before I ordered my first optioned-out IM convertible "D". Thought long and hard about what I wanted and got some unusual custom options, a 901 5-speed, and a very nice 2,110 type 1 engine.

A great little car, but after living with it I knew what I would do differently the next time, so sold it and ordered a new IM Speedster with all the bells and whistles, more power, etc. Obviously an expensive decision.

The comment above that you probably don't know what you REALLY want may be true, so talk to people, look at different cars, and plan carefully within your budget limitations so you can can get an rdered car at least the first time around.

On the east coast take a look at classic speedsters there in MA on Cape Cod. They build the VS speedster striped down for 18K on there website. I took a look this time last year he had a really nice car all built look like a quality build.

Mike, $5,000-$6,000 was what I had budgeted so it was a little shocking. As previously stated I just beginning to locate sources and I would really love a Raby for the reliabiliy factor. Decisions... Decisions...
Darryll

I hear you Darryll...what these gents are suggesting is really a good idea - a used one with the expensive stuff done is the way I would go...

Have fun!

Regards,
Mike